2017 Japan Open
- Thread starter figurefan0726
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
I told you. Contact the British police for this major conspiracy you have uncovered for fixing the ladies results in the past five years. They'll be happy to investigate with their colleagues, think of the coup!
And no, you do not understand the rules. You don't because you do not want to.
You keep going on and on about some major European, racist conspiracy, without addressing real world issues figure-skating is up against.
Figure skating is a winter sport - one tick against it.
Figure skating is a sport that requires a lot of money - another massive, crucial, tick against it.
To get it going requires an immense, decade long economic investment. For one, single country. You're talking about dozens and dozens of new countries suddenly brought into this world at the top level. You have no clue, at all, if generating interest is even possible, never mind anything else. And the judges pay for things themselves, they are not employed by the ISU. The amount of money we're talking about is staggering, because actually doing something requires more than typing on a forum. So who is going to pay for that? To a Brit - there is no magic money tree but for real this time. Someone actually has to pay for it.
Figure skating in Europe does not have enough financing. Programs are reduced and consolidated into smaller ones. Yet what? You expect Europe to suddenly pay for opening up ice rinks all over the world, and their maintenance, and promotion of the sport in these countries and pay for schooling the staff, and their salaries to try and get the youth programs going? Which Europe would this be btw, because Europe itself has plenty of socio-economic issues.
Wake up and smell the roses. The real world is not pretty. Figure skating is a dying sport with an aging demographic. Would it be ideal that we have some world-wide country representation? Sure, but we simply don't and we're simply not going to have that any time soon for this incredibly niche, incredibly expensive sport where even in places like Britain, Graham Newberry has to resort to go-fund me campaigns!
You are simply going to have to deal that the majority of the ISU countries are European, and that per rules that govern all sports of this type, by simple matter of how things work, this is where we are.
You are welcome to start some massive campaign to promote figure-skating and are welcome to start a go-fund me campaign to start just one figure skating program in a non-ISU member country.
You want diversity? Help it happen. Or are you just talk?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Retooling all rules and policy in the interest of skaters overall, not the federations. This actually makes it fairer for ALL federations too over time.
- NEW initiatives for diversity and representation in the long run.
Build relationships with none European feds and upgrade their expertise until the minimum target of 50%:50% ISU Judges representation by the year 2022. This proportion needs to be applied equally during judging panel selection.
Although in the long run beyond 2022, the ideal proportion should be like 35% Europeans: 65% Rest of the world more in line with the global makeup. I suspect this will only happen if ISU had a huge overhaul of management. As it stands, someone cited the proportion as more like 75%: 25% ratio, which is poor. Especially when in practice, the ratio is much lower, as already demonstrated during past 5 years, the proportion works out something like 8 out 9 judges all came from Europe.
Bottom line: World Championship should be judged like a global event, not an European Championship.
- Help to train more ISU judges and make more conscientious effort to create and develop emerging market, primarily South America, Africa and Oceania. Although this is primarily a winter sport, there should be ways to encourage co-sponsorship, partner training opportunities between the federations. Sport relations, cultural exchange, there must be something, someone out there that can help. (Cool Running?!) Campaigns to promote younger generation judges the opportunities to build up their credentials and experiences at major events. Judges should not be just about representing regional or federation interest, but about offering a wider range, diversifying point of view with greater in-depth of specialisation in their field.
If US, China, Japan can't even get their foot in the door during the last 5 years compares to an average minor European country, how is there any hope for the rest of the world? Let alone, the likes of Brazil, Philippines, Malaysia, India etc..
- Draws can still work, but the methodologies need to be changed
They should be drawn from regional pools per continent, not draw from overall ISU judges list.
Federation still get to have only 1 ISU judge at a time, but they should be encouraged to rotate and draw from a random list of judges themselves, instead of insisting on anyone particular judge to do their bidding. This removes pressures from all the judge to appease to federations demands so they can get to be chosen.
- Consider expanding the panel to 10, to make more room for diversity and representation. This should also lower the effectiveness of 2 judges in collusion, easily slanted. Minimum 3 continents per panel. European judges can have higher quota than others, capped at 4 majorities. Asia/Oceania, Americas/Africas 3 each. Total 10.
- Ensure no same judges can consecutively judge at big events like European Championship then the WC, or GPF then WC, this is to minimise momentum boosting and PCS boosting for home skaters, along with other forms of inflations.
Ideally, no 2 same judges should able judged on the same elite event again more than once per season (FS+SP is 1 event). This should deter the possibility of collusion, but not full proof.
Ideally, no judge should able to judge its own skater more than once per a season at major elite events (GP, GPF, WC, Olympics) but exceptions may be made if the FED does not have enough ISU judges to choose from.
I am sure there are many others ways to create deterrents and preventative measures, ways to minimising conflict of interests, reducing inherent biases and collusion opportunities over time.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
So you are continuing to evade the question.
Do you consider nr 100% European judging panel is an acceptable standard of judging @ any world level sports? Yes/No
Do you consider nr 100% European Judging panel done consecutively over 5 years cannot possibly slant any result? Yes/No?
Especially consider
a) Mathematically all it takes is 2 judges working together to slant the result. Intentional, unintentional, circumstantial, or inherent biases, not a possibility?
b) European Championship has traditionally the greatest inflation among all the competitions, which happens to be the competition prior to WC.
Rules are made to be broken, times change, especially if they are rules written by the Europeans, for the benefit of Europeans, and one that is clearly outdated with the times.
Not good enough for an Olympic movement sport that is supposed to encourage social inclusion while stamp out room for discrimination. The fact only 1 out of 9 judges had been from outside Europe the past 5 years, including 2015 where ZERO judges from outside Europe speaks for itself. No amount of excuses, PR and counterattack can change that fact.
No need for British Police either, I can defend myself from the mob just fine
- Joined
- May 17, 2017
All of this mess from a Yuna’s fan was because Yuna Kim didn’t win at Sochi and one Russian girl did. Had Yuna Kim wanted that gold badly she might have trained 3lo extensively in those 4 years. Had Yuna Kim lost Sochi with clean 7 triples, then we will talk in a legit way about robbing a medal.
I am fed up with some same certain posters keep complaining about “small federations”. If you want your skaters to become more relevant, do more investment in them. Yuna Kim would have never become OGM had been there no sponsors for her. Samsung was richer than all the other sponsors ISU ever had. But some “fans” still shout that same “small federations” card.
Get more countries to invest in skating and in ISU. Not trying to blame Europe judges for their numerous existence.
I am fed up with some same certain posters keep complaining about “small federations”. If you want your skaters to become more relevant, do more investment in them. Yuna Kim would have never become OGM had been there no sponsors for her. Samsung was richer than all the other sponsors ISU ever had. But some “fans” still shout that same “small federations” card.
Get more countries to invest in skating and in ISU. Not trying to blame Europe judges for their numerous existence.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
Did you just tell us that i was trying to explain something to some uber fan who is just mad and who didnt want a conversation in first place... Well, thanks, everything make sense then. Even I realized the problem was not just in logical thinking
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
The problem with all this is Who'll bell the cat? Changes of the sort that are envisioned here would require essentially that the national federations vote themselves out of existence (for the greater good), or at least vote themselves out of relevance in the ISU. Won't happen.
Do Europeans dominate the ISU? Here's a brief history of figure skating. It began as a Scandinavian and Alpine pastime. England dropped out when the British style gave way to the Vienna style of "fancy skating." World War II decimated Europe and allowed USA and Canada to win a bunch of championships. After a while, North Americans lost interest and Japan took up the slack. The end. (Russia? great pairs and ice dancers.
)
- Joined
- May 7, 2017
I was looking for the thread of the Japan Open, but I came across a conspiracy worthy of youtube.
For a political-sociocultural issue, no European country could remotely prioritize a Russian over an American. The EU has more open treaties in political matters - Economic with neoliberal countries. It is in the collective unconscious of the natives of each country. Even countries that were once part of the USSR manifest some kind of hostility towards Russia (Ukraine, Yugoslavia).
No eastern European country that feels the need for Independence, and is currently independent, would feel that it owes allegiance to the former USSR.
Absurd
.
Now, if we talk about possible economic bribes, no Olympic Committee in each country would squander money on that, is not logical for a country with socialist bases like Russia, which would distribute most of its GDP in militia, sports infrastructure, their workers, health ,etc.They do not waste the budget limited on bribes because it would directly affect the economy and the distribution of GDP.
If any judge could be bribed, it would be of some sponsoring brand to benefit any athlete who is "face". In fact, it is much more likely that countries of the Liberal Economic System will squander money on bribes.
For socialist governments that have tight budgets and whose distribution is established, it is illogical to spend money that can be used in health and reactivation of the general economy of the country.
Moreover, historically Russian athletes have demonstrated a kind of collectivist and non-personalist character: "no matter the individual who wins, what matters is that Russia reaches the podium." That is why there are so many "spare parts" in Russia, other countries may say that they are disposable athletes, but it is a sign of the high athletic motivation and the collectivist spirit of the athlete. You can see for example the interviews to the gymnasts Margarita Mamum and Yana K. You could think they are enemies, but the position of both always was that the priority was that RUSSIA not the "face of shift" won. That is the Russian stimulus, and that is why this country always leads the medal in various sports, it is not money, it is HYDIOSINCRACY and many years of sports stimulation and fair spending on sports infrastructure..
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The distribution of judges is fair, we always see a balanced number of Americans, Europeans and we include Spaniards and Mexicans, because they have SIGNED with the ISU. It takes a National Skating Federation as a requirement to be part of the ISU, that is basic and logical.
The PCS consider transitions and Skating Skills, not only "art", only in the perception of "art" there is a certain degree of subjectivity.
In fact the PCS were more insecure and prone to being inflated in the times of Yuna / Mao / Ando, if we reviewed the protocols, we had a Yuna Kim being highly qualified by "art" and with GOE of 17 with minor BV programs. Compared to a Mao Asada with higher BV, only 3 GOE, and being highly underscoring in her PCS. Fortunately things are fair now and the GOE is somewhat reduced, and is calculated from the technical element and then factorized.
I think the system is currently much less corrupt than years ago.
For a political-sociocultural issue, no European country could remotely prioritize a Russian over an American. The EU has more open treaties in political matters - Economic with neoliberal countries. It is in the collective unconscious of the natives of each country. Even countries that were once part of the USSR manifest some kind of hostility towards Russia (Ukraine, Yugoslavia).
No eastern European country that feels the need for Independence, and is currently independent, would feel that it owes allegiance to the former USSR.
Absurd
.
Now, if we talk about possible economic bribes, no Olympic Committee in each country would squander money on that, is not logical for a country with socialist bases like Russia, which would distribute most of its GDP in militia, sports infrastructure, their workers, health ,etc.They do not waste the budget limited on bribes because it would directly affect the economy and the distribution of GDP.
If any judge could be bribed, it would be of some sponsoring brand to benefit any athlete who is "face". In fact, it is much more likely that countries of the Liberal Economic System will squander money on bribes.
For socialist governments that have tight budgets and whose distribution is established, it is illogical to spend money that can be used in health and reactivation of the general economy of the country.
Moreover, historically Russian athletes have demonstrated a kind of collectivist and non-personalist character: "no matter the individual who wins, what matters is that Russia reaches the podium." That is why there are so many "spare parts" in Russia, other countries may say that they are disposable athletes, but it is a sign of the high athletic motivation and the collectivist spirit of the athlete. You can see for example the interviews to the gymnasts Margarita Mamum and Yana K. You could think they are enemies, but the position of both always was that the priority was that RUSSIA not the "face of shift" won. That is the Russian stimulus, and that is why this country always leads the medal in various sports, it is not money, it is HYDIOSINCRACY and many years of sports stimulation and fair spending on sports infrastructure..
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The distribution of judges is fair, we always see a balanced number of Americans, Europeans and we include Spaniards and Mexicans, because they have SIGNED with the ISU. It takes a National Skating Federation as a requirement to be part of the ISU, that is basic and logical.
The PCS consider transitions and Skating Skills, not only "art", only in the perception of "art" there is a certain degree of subjectivity.
In fact the PCS were more insecure and prone to being inflated in the times of Yuna / Mao / Ando, if we reviewed the protocols, we had a Yuna Kim being highly qualified by "art" and with GOE of 17 with minor BV programs. Compared to a Mao Asada with higher BV, only 3 GOE, and being highly underscoring in her PCS. Fortunately things are fair now and the GOE is somewhat reduced, and is calculated from the technical element and then factorized.
I think the system is currently much less corrupt than years ago.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
The bottom comment is, no one would ever complain about a judging panel that has too many European judges had their favorites from non-European countries scored higher.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
I agree with most of your observations :agree: But to correct you, Yugoslavia was never part of SSSR. It was a communist country, yes, but also independent of SSSR politics. Indeed, she started Non-Aligned Movement, who criticized both Eastern bloc and NATO. Yugoslavia always had figure skating representatives both in skating and judging, and after break up of Yugoslavia, new independent countries as Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia carry on that tradition. Even many people think Yugoslavia was part of the Eastern block, in reallity that was never the case, and now all new contries even they have O.K. relationship with Russia, they relationships are much closer with EU.
Wow, has this thread ever veered off the rails. But in keeping with the discussion, does anyone else remember Worlds 2002, when Terry Gannon asked Dick Button if Michelle could win gold? "Not with this panel" (all European), was Dick's response. No off-topic thread is complete until Michelle Kwan is mentioned.
- Joined
- May 7, 2017
I forgot to add the "ex", of course the former Yugoslavia was not officially part of the USSR (because Yugoslavia itself was already a set of countries: Bosnia, Serbia, Slavs, croatia), but they had a clear communist base and good relationship with the USSR at the beginning. Remember that the former Yugoslavia distanced itself from the USSR by not supporting them in the Greek communist civil wars, and Tito broke off his relations with Moscow ,as well as distanced itself from capitalism too (Eur/American).It was this tension with the two great powers that began to destabilize it, and reach the independence of all those countriesthat composed it , now, why I mentioned to Yugoslavia and the ex USSR? as you will see, we have skating events held in areas of the former Yugoslavia, such as recent JGP events in Bosnia-Croatia (ex Yug.), or Minsk (Belarus ex-USSR annexed country) or in Latvia ( EU), where little Russians Girls triumphed with scores higher than a senior and, according to users like OS and others who started this possible conspiracy between former Soviet or Slavic or Eastern European countries or North benefiting to Russian Girls. We also saw a series of comments on Youtube at these events saying the same thing like if it were a religious rosary: "overscored" "European judges are bought by Russia." it turns out that these little Russians also won at events held in Italy and Japan, respectively with various countries as judges. As we see, history and the current political-economic relationship belies that theory. Europe and the new small countries like Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, have in fresh nationalism. And this supposed benefits to Russian over any other European, American or Japanese competitor, contradicts the very idiosyncrasy and sociological historical profile of these countries and the individuals in charge of judging.
Something very different and much more probably would be big commercial brands supporting financially their sponsored sportsmen/women, and in some crazy act to try a bribe with some judge of individual way.
sorry for this papyrus .
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
Well, when you already mention those competitions in Ex Yu countries, i remember when Yu Na Kim started her Sochi Olympic season in Croatia (Golden Spin of Zagreb, which is the oldest figure skating competion still going btw) and she won with more of 40 points over Tutkamysheva, and some 210 points score. So observation that other Slavic countries, competitions which took place there, and their judging panels prefers Russian skaters is not true at all. I also rememeber Sebia and Montenegro had an Olympic representative who was basically born and raised in USA (by Serbian father i guess) and competed for USA before. If FS federation in Serbia is so much Slavocentric or Russophiles, like OS suggested, they would have never called him in fist place to represent them. I also know that Yugoslavia judge (before the break up) preferred Canadian skater over USSR's one. I mean, some peoples logic here is just absurd
It is difficult to get a judging panel without too obvious preferences, but this was way too much, in my opinion:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/SEG004OF.HTM
6-7 persons with a Russian name..., ROTFL! Unfortunately Baranova represented my country. I have heard that she went and hugged Sotnikova after the win was clear, which does not sound right behaviour, in my opinion.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/SEG004OF.HTM
6-7 persons with a Russian name..., ROTFL! Unfortunately Baranova represented my country. I have heard that she went and hugged Sotnikova after the win was clear, which does not sound right behaviour, in my opinion.
The problem with all this is Who'll bell the cat? Changes of the sort that are envisioned here would require essentially that the national federations vote themselves out of existence (for the greater good), or at least vote themselves out of relevance in the ISU. Won't happen.
Do Europeans dominate the ISU? Here's a brief history of figure skating. It began as a Scandinavian and Alpine pastime. England dropped out when the British style gave way to the Vienna style of "fancy skating." World War II decimated Europe and allowed USA and Canada to win a bunch of championships. After a while, North Americans lost interest and Japan took up the slack. The end. (Russia? great pairs and ice dancers.
For most of figure skating history, Russia/USSR had no record of men's and ladies Olympic or World Champions. That changed with the men in the 80's/90's but currently the Russians are lagging here. Maria B. was the first Russian ladies WC in 1999. Adelina was the first Russian OGM in 2014. Russia dominated Pairs for many years, but that has changed, too. Likewise, with Dance. Country domination in skating comes and goes. Russia is fairly dominant in ladies now but that could change. Judges favoring their home countries is nothing new. If they were hired and paid by the ISU it might make a difference, but it might not. In the end, a country's dominance depends on its talent pool.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
Those are not just Russians name. Those are Slavic names. Beside Russia Slavic countries are Ukraine, Bellarus, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, FYROMacedonia, Bulgaria. Russians are just a part of East Slavs (with BLR and UKR), but all Slavic names and surnames can sound simmiliar to you. Slaves are the largest ethno-linguistic group in Europe, so it shouldn't be so strange when you see a lot of those similar names in one place... If you knew those facts, of course... And the fact also is those names has nothing to do with Russia as a country...
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
With all due respect, everything you have said IS true regarding deeply complex political-sociocultural issues in Europe, however, it still does not change the fact European Championships has historically always provided the biggest inflation among all the elite competition of the season, which actually goes against your stated views, where everyone is supposed keep everyone else in check. Now you put forward the same pool of judges as the overwhelming majority at ladies WC for 5 consecutive years in a row, how do you think this will affect everyone's scores, and what possible scoring trends will it perpetuates?
My view - however controversial it may be, is supported by empirical evidence that is self-evident over the 5 consecutive years of European majority panel selection, including 2015: 100% majority which goes against mathematically probability if based on random selection.
Call me cynical, but I don't believe corruption will ever truly die. It may be hidden for a whole, getting harder to see due to temporary fixes designed to deter it (or mask it), but it will always eventually resurface time and time again everywhere, in ANY environment, in any capacity. It is therefore ALWAYS important to be vigilant, be smart at identifying them, and stamped them out again and again. This sport relies on 100% human judging, and considering its history and culture, do you honestly think human nature is going to change? Especially given the management has not changed. It is still run by the same group of people, who knows the backdoor loopholes inside and out.
At least you admit things were more corrupted once upon a time. If you recognize that, then perhaps you should be open to the possibility it may also happen again. Or at least look at the probability based on science.
Believe it or not, I'd like to believe in the best of people, but when the evidence clearly presents itself as consecutive statistical anomalies, it is better to be a realist. The fact last 5 consecutive years at world championship at ladies FS were made out of the practically ALL European panel (with many consecutively repeated representation) is clearly mathematically anomaly. 1 year may be a statistical coincidence (and I would be crazy for making the same statement then), fine. 2nd year has become an statistical anomaly, but, not 3, 4, but 5 in a row?!!
Look at the representation stats again, these were some of the repeated EU representation over the 5 years out of possible 50 federations.
France = 4
Austria = 4
Estonia = 3
Germany = 3
Sweden = 3
Switzerland = 3
Czech Republic = 3
Ukraine = 3
These were the ALL the representation from the world at large during the same 5 years, 6 events, out of possible 54 judges panel selection.
China = 0
Japan = 2
Korea = 1
USA = 1
Canada = 2 years (1 include SP)
Australia = 1
South Africa = 1
In theory, if none-European federation makes out 15 out of 50, they should still have 30% odds chance of getting selected per year basis. Which works out close to 3 non eu representation average each year; with some years above, some years below. The emerging natural pattern should look something like 2, 4, 3, 4, 2 per 5 consecutive years on the panel. Yet in reality, over the last 5 years, it ends up work out like 1, 0, 1, 1, 1 where 8/9 average majority panel are European, and in 2015=100% European panel. From the data at least, it indicates over the course of 5 years, under-representation of non-Europeans had somehow become systematic despite low mathematical probabilities. This was made worse by the fact there were hardly more than 2 continents representing the world at any one time which is just not right at any global event however you wish to justify it.
It is worthwhile to note some EU feds end up being selected 4 out of 5 past consecutive years which makes it another incredible improbability consider the number of qualified feds. In any case, I recall reading somewhere the final panel of FS judges were usually draw from a selection of 13, not 50, so it seems reasonable to deduce, whoever can determine the 13, can determine the probable outcome.
Bear in mind, despite the idea the world 'have' progressed, we are currently living in an era where US election can be swung by Russian interference with participants of US citizens within the US. Hardly a conspiracy when evidence manifests itself through anomalies. Where Olympic's pristine marketing campaign promoting fair games got ugly by the discovery of systematic abuse at a state level planned and strategized for years by Russia for the London Olympic games and Sochi, and this would have likely to have continued had people decide not investigate for anomalies. Given the history of this sport, who architect it, manages, who is responsible for all the rules and points changes, who is also the VP at Russia federation, advising Russia federation on strategy and tactics (can someone say conflict of interest?), and determines the selective 13, how can anyone still pretend it is business as usual? Finally, observe the manifestation of the distinctively different type of winning strategies (made only possible by rule changes post Vancouver), the footprints are practically self-explanatory.
Today's winning program formula are not built on better version of yesterday (Olympic motto: Faster, Higher, Stronger), but is about ignore and minimise everything great then, while pushing for new 'points smarts features through bonuses' through quantity, the type of points advantages be gained by training ahead of time, while inflating and minimise potential gap for quality difference through standardizing PCS inflation and GOEs. PCS that does not require to be built over time unlike how it had always been. So in conclusion, do you still think the sport has been left untouched, and there had been no signs of interference.. at all?
Anyone else thinks otherwise are either in benefit of it, in denial, or preferring to turn a blind eye. The very idea of ISU judges are supposed to serve the federation interests already provide a bedrock of funny going on. A wide diversifying judging panel like the old days at least try to provide a fairer representation through peer monitoring and cancelling regional preferences. As long as I remember, a healthy panel usually consists of 1 or 2 North American judges along with 1 or 2 judges from Asia, like China or Japan and then the rest of European which makes up the majority. These past consecutive 5 years of nr 100 % EC judges is a huge step backward, replacing wide diversifying views with preferential majority group to suit its own purpose.
Did no one notice how ISU decides to remove nationality of the judges from the protocols all together and just list them under ISU? Avoid looking suspicious when they consist huge majority EU countries - FIVE YEARS in a row at the season's most important and visible event, with many of same EU federation panelled many many times. Despite 4 of last 5 WC all took place outside Europe
Diversity and equal representation are not just about political correctness or practical inconvenience. It is quintessential to ensure a healthy global judging periscope for cultural sensitivity, empathy, respect, democracy for the purpose of equality, enabling the human right to compete as fairly as possible. It stamps out the type of homogeneous decision that creates huge inflation at European Championships for European skaters by European judges every year. To have the same pool of judges continue to judge everyone at world events is basically begging for inherent preferences to continue heavily favouring European Champions vs rest of the world skaters who had not been part of that inflation.
No conspiracy is needed, but you can always count on the scientific probability.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
What people complain about is not that Ukraine, Belarus, etc. are part of Russia, or owe allegiance to Russia, or even like Russians very much.
It is rather that for quite a few years after the breakup of the Soviet Union, the figure skating establishments of those countries continued to be run by coaches and officials that were part of the whole "Russian" figure skating edifice. Many were in fact ethnic Russians and many more trained in Russia or by Russians and remained on friendly terms with the Piseev oligarchy. Plus, they were trained to appreciate the "Russian style" of skating (whatever that means, exactly), especially in pairs and ice dance.
Over the years this Russo-centricity among Eastern European figure skating federations has weakened, as new people rise to positions of influence in various countries.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think it's a huge oversimplification to imply that European judges will always, or even statistically preferentially, favor European skaters over skaters from North America and Asia.
Consider the 2002 Olympic pairs fiasco. Why was everyone angry about the French judge, particularly, when she was only one of five that put Berezhnaya and Sikharudlize over Sale and Pelletier? The reason is that as soon as the judging panels had been chosen, months before, "everybody knew" that there were two voting blocks in play.
Russia, China, Poland and and Ukraine would vote for B&S. USA, Canada, Germany and Japan would vote for S&P.
That much was a given. So the contest would be decided by the French judge, who could go either way (that is, Didier Gailhaguet could go either way). Wooing of Marie-Reine Le Gougne by both sides reportedly was underway at least by October, 2001. Did Russia offer a better deal than Canada? We will never know. But anyway, no one could say, well, France is a European country, so naturally this give B&S the edge.
Too bad Jamie Sale was from Calgary (English-speaking) rather than Montreal (French-speaking). Maybe that would have tipped tyhe balance.
