Women and the Quad

VenusHalley · Sep 21, 2019

drivingmissdaisy said:
She could, but while she's great at a lot of things, Kostner tends to have fewer transitions in her programs than skaters like Alina (which is why Alina can match Caro's PCS). I can't think of any woman yet in the mold of Patrick and Yuzuru who really have it all, the ease of movement and artistry with the complex choreography and transitions between elements.

But Kostners transitions are held well and done with quality. Alina is talented young lady, but some of her transitions in her competitive programs sometimes tend to look like a stumble or trying to keep a balance or it looks like she is unable to hold them.

Sasha is special, she is anything but ladylike, she can sometimes come off as awkward. She can pull it off and will be loved by audience, she is growing into a good performer... but I think sometimes judges will not know what to do with her.

yume · Sep 21, 2019

Speaking of quads, Trusova's 4T doesn't have a rough landing like last season anymore. Looks more stable and the height is impressive. This quad isn't bad at all. I would be glad if she ditch the "4lz", keep the 4T, and start to train seriously the 3A.

EdgeCall · Sep 21, 2019

No, let her improve the 4Lz. I am hoping for a 4Lz-4T ... :sarcasm:

VenusHalley · Sep 21, 2019

yume said:
Speaking of quads, Trusova's 4T doesn't have a rough landing like last season anymore. Looks more stable and the height is impressive. This quad isn't bad at all. I would be glad if she ditch the "4lz", keep the 4T, and start to train seriously the 3A.

I wonder what happened to her 4sal. And she also landed quad flip in practice.

Her 4Lz is alright these days (she used to crash on it so badly that if I was her mother, I'd threaten to take away her skates if she ever attempts it again). But maybe messing her Lz-Loop combo though. Maybe her 3Lz is too high and fast rotated and it makes it hard to tack on another jump. Or maybe she is training 4loop? Who knows with Sasha.

SkateSkates · Sep 21, 2019

VenusHalley said:
I wonder what happened to her 4sal. And she also landed quad flip in practice.

Her 4Lz is alright these days (she used to crash on it so badly that if I was her mother, I'd threaten to take away her skates if she ever attempts it again). But maybe messing her Lz-Loop combo though. Maybe her 3Lz is too high and fast rotated and it makes it hard to tack on another jump. Or maybe she is training 4loop? Who knows with Sasha.

I would also love for Sasha to bring back the 4S instead of the 4Lz. She went into the sal with much less preparation time and it was better integrated into the program. She has a huge windup for the lutz which really takes her out of the program the entire length of the rink.

She has greatly improved her entrances into her 4Ts, though. Of course the entrances cannot be classified as difficult (yet) but there is now at least choreography going on before both 4Ts. At this rate by next season she will be doing steps before the quad toe!

LiamForeman · Sep 21, 2019

Mrs. P said:
Having seems Alina and the 3A’s live, Alina really doesn’t have an advantage on the PCS side. The one That does is Alena K. Alina’s advantage before was never the PCS it was that she backloaded programs and was relatively consistent. It’s not really like Jason who truly can spit out points for those non jump/PCS points and has a clear distinction in those areas (and honestly it only takes him so far anyway.)

Thank you, Mrs. P. I agree 100%. I love Alina and am so glad for her success, but her basic skating is not the best in the world, and I also would give Alena Kostornaia that distinction. Alina can't rely on unreal PCS since she really doesn't have it. She's wonderful of course, but when you see an AlenaK skate, you 'get' what crazy PCS scores should go to.

Sugar Coated · Sep 21, 2019

yume said:
Speaking of quads, Trusova's 4T doesn't have a rough landing like last season anymore. Looks more stable and the height is impressive. This quad isn't bad at all. I would be glad if she ditch the "4lz", keep the 4T, and start to train seriously the 3A.

I'm shocked she doesn't have a 3A yet. She clearly has the strength and speed to do it. And we've seen it off ice. I'd be surprised if we don't see it by the end of the season.

A day after Alysa Liu lands the first 3A3T, Sofia Akatieva attempts it too. To me that indicates that the arms race is on, Eteri is watching the potential Olympic competition, and her girls will be pushing the 3A and 3A combos in the future.

dante · Sep 21, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
A day after Alysa Liu lands the first 3A3T, Sofia Akatieva attempts it too. To me that indicates that the arms race is on, Eteri is watching the potential Olympic competition, and her girls will be pushing the 3A and 3A combos in the future.

They won't compete against each other until the season 2023-24. And their Olympic rivalry won't happen until 2026.

VenusHalley · Sep 21, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
I'm shocked she doesn't have a 3A yet. She clearly has the strength and speed to do it. And we've seen it off ice. I'd be surprised if we don't see it by the end of the season.

A day after Alysa Liu lands the first 3A3T, Sofia Akatieva attempts it too. To me that indicates that the arms race is on, Eteri is watching the potential Olympic competition, and her girls will be pushing the 3A and 3A combos in the future.

It seems 3A is more about control versus rotation. Even some males find it harder to land than quads. I guess the forward take off is scarier?

readernick · Sep 22, 2019

VenusHalley said:
It seems 3A is more about control versus rotation. Even some males find it harder to land than quads. I guess the forward take off is scarier?

I think 3A are easier for some people and quads are easier for others. It probably just depends on what your strongest jump is. Until this year ( Sasha's 2A has improved a lot) I always found Sasha's 2A one of her weakest jumps. So, of course, it is harder for her to learn 3A.

Arbitrary · Sep 22, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
I'm shocked she doesn't have a 3A yet. She clearly has the strength and speed to do it. And we've seen it off ice. I'd be surprised if we don't see it by the end of the season.

A day after Alysa Liu lands the first 3A3T, Sofia Akatieva attempts it too. To me that indicates that the arms race is on, Eteri is watching the potential Olympic competition, and her girls will be pushing the 3A and 3A combos in the future.

It was stated and discussed many times.

Sasha cannot jump face forward close to a corner. She has to train 3Ax in Tuktamisheva's style, in the middle. Problematic for her.

Someone from Crystal Dome stated recently she does 3Ax in practice.
I didn't read a credible source yet.

--------------

Regarding allowing quads in ladies SP.
Trusova won Nepela absolute in LP, scoring a lot more than male skaters, but lost even more in SP due to limitations. Would she dare 4/3 and 4 in SP, even without 3Ax, she could have a medal in male tournament.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 23, 2019

readernick said:
I think 3A are easier for some people and quads are easier for others. It probably just depends on what your strongest jump is.

I think this is sort of a recent phenomenon. Before Patrick Chan, I can't think of any male skaters who had a better quad than 3A. A lot of that is probably due to the fact that, before COP, the men couldn't get anywhere near a World or Olympic podium without a 3A (at least since around 1987). I saw a YouTube clip of Trusova attempting a 3A two years ago, and it looked really close. I'm sure that she could master the element if she dedicated more time to training it.

Harriet · Sep 23, 2019

drivingmissdaisy said:
Before Patrick Chan, I can't think of any male skaters who had a better quad than 3A.

Famously, or infamously, Lambiel's 4T was far better than his 3A.

gkelly · Sep 23, 2019

drivingmissdaisy said:
I think this is sort of a recent phenomenon. Before Patrick Chan, I can't think of any male skaters who had a better quad than 3A. A lot of that is probably due to the fact that, before COP, the men couldn't get anywhere near a World or Olympic podium without a 3A (at least since around 1987).

Harriet said:
Famously, or infamously, Lambiel's 4T was far better than his 3A.

Also Petr Barna, who won 1992 European gold and Olympic bronze with flawed 4T but never competed with 3A.

Alex65 · Sep 24, 2019

I am pretty sure that Sasha can jump 3A right now with a greater or lesser degree of success. The main reason they don’t start doing this is the danger of injury, I think. Getting injured is something that you should try to avoid in any case. Sasha probably practices 3A in safety during training (as Gorshkov mentioned the other day). But they will not use it in competitions until the jump becomes completely stable and familiar. Secondly, there is no need for this yet. With the content currently available, she confidently defeats any opponent. When the time comes to represent trump cards, I'm sure Sasha will be ready.

voolfee · Sep 24, 2019

Sorry, but is this quad jumps thread or what? Why even here people are trying to bashing Alina in every possible way? :rolleye:

Yes, Alina isn't perfect in PCS, like any other figure skater, but it's obvious that she's the best ladies figure skater in PCS at the moment. And she is growing on it every season.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Sep 24, 2019

voolfee said:
Sorry, but is this quad jumps thread or what? Why even here people are trying to bashing Alina in every possible way? Yes, Alina isn't perfect in PCS, like any other figure skater, but it's obvious that she's the best ladies figure skater in PCS at the moment. And she is growing on it every season.

I’d say Satoko is the better skater in terms of PCS, but hey, to each their own. Still, no reason to bash Alina or think she won’t attempt to up her tech game. Right now though Trusova is untouchable if she’s clean or even not clean (with the 3Z+2L error she still got a record). And you know her PCS will only rise over the season.

neud · Sep 24, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I’d say Satoko is the better skater in terms of PCS, but hey, to each their own.

If you look at last WC I guess 44.72 is more than 36.37 (SP) and 74.26 is more than 70.17 (FS).

JazzUp · Sep 24, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I’d say Satoko is the better skater in terms of PCS, but hey, to each their own.

ISU judges don't share your view, it seems. Their respective PCS (including Satoko's CS event marks this season):

Mean Component Marks Satoko Alina
All Components 8.55 9.12
Skating Skills 8.43 9.07
Transitions 8.43 8.98
Performance 8.55 9.15
Composition 8.60 9.19
Interpretation 8.73 9.22

Well, as you said, "to each their own".
_____

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Right now though Trusova is untouchable if she’s clean or even not clean (with the 3Z+2L error she still got a record). And you know her PCS will only rise over the season.

The second stage of the Rocket has not been engaged yet :biggrin:

moriel · Sep 24, 2019

VenusHalley said:
I wonder what happened to her 4sal. And she also landed quad flip in practice.

Her 4Lz is alright these days (she used to crash on it so badly that if I was her mother, I'd threaten to take away her skates if she ever attempts it again). But maybe messing her Lz-Loop combo though. Maybe her 3Lz is too high and fast rotated and it makes it hard to tack on another jump. Or maybe she is training 4loop? Who knows with Sasha.

Afaik, she ditched 4Sal because she cannot warm-up 3 different quads in competition environment.
My guess about the choices: 4Lz is much more expensive, and she has a decent success rate on it, which is why it was chosen. And her 4T is likely her best and most solid quad, which is why it was chosen.

Women and the Quad

VenusHalley

yume

🍉

EdgeCall

VenusHalley

SkateSkates

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

Sugar Coated

dante

a dark lord

VenusHalley

readernick

Arbitrary

drivingmissdaisy

Harriet

gkelly

Alex65

voolfee

CanadianSkaterGuy

neud

Match Penalty

JazzUp

#янехомяк!

moriel

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