Will Zagitova return?

lesnar001 · Jun 1, 2020

Scott512 said:
She's back to the thrill of many and the dismay of Some. Lol. The thing I will never understand is that people constantly laud Liza and Zhenya for continuing on Liza at 23 and Zhenya at 20. I do as well. I think so many want Alina to retire even at when she wasv17. I applaud any figure skater that wants to continue on whether they're at the highest level like the top Russian girls or they're struggling Russian skaters or from any country for that matter. It will be interesting to see how good Alina is this season if there is a season now that she's through puberty and is bigger than when she won the Olympics.

Scott - I think the number of people "dismayed" is very, very small. And IMO it would be for reasons other than Alina herself. It is because she could throw a monkey wrench in the "Eteri can't succeed with mature ladies" argument. It's funny how there have been all sorts of discussions about not calling Anna, Alexandra, Aliona "The 3A" because it doesn't recognize their individuality. Yet there seems to be no problem in wanting to lump Alina in with every other skater that has failed post-puberty with Eteri.

Most of the "will she or won't she" has been because Alina has already won all the big prizes. And very few ladies skaters (no matter the age) continue in competition after they win the Olympics. So if Liza or Zhenya had won the Olympics, the same discussions would be taking place about them. If Alina does stick around for the next Olympic cycle, I think it would be amazing. Because she would be doing it totally for herself and not because of any pressure. IIRC, Katarina Witt was more or less forced to compete through 1988 by East Germany (with the promise she would be able to travel to the West after that). Yuna Kim was not forced, of course. But I think she felt a big obligated to South Korea to skate in Sochi in 2014.

PS - I also agree with you that coronavirus has devastated the world. And not just in terms of the illness itself.

flanker · Jun 1, 2020

Alina announces she is going to Novogorsk tomorrow:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA5cZATlwDm/

Scott512 · Jun 1, 2020

lesnar001 said:
Scott - I think the number of people "dismayed" is very, very small. And IMO it would be for reasons other than Alina herself. It is because she could throw a monkey wrench in the "Eteri can't succeed with mature ladies" argument. It's funny how there have been all sorts of discussions about not calling Anna, Alexandra, Aliona "The 3A" because it doesn't recognize their individuality. Yet there seems to be no problem in wanting to lump Alina in with every other skater that has failed post-puberty with Eteri.

Most of the "will she or won't she" has been because Alina has already won all the big prizes. And very few ladies skaters (no matter the age) continue in competition after they win the Olympics. So if Liza or Zhenya had won the Olympics, the same discussions would be taking place about them. If Alina does stick around for the next Olympic cycle, I think it would be amazing. Because she would be doing it totally for herself and not because of any pressure. IIRC, Katarina Witt was more or less forced to compete through 1988 by East Germany (with the promise she would be able to travel to the West after that). Yuna Kim was not forced, of course. But I think she felt a big obligated to South Korea to skate in Sochi in 2014.

PS - I also agree with you that coronavirus has devastated the world. And not just in terms of the illness itself.

Yes it's about EG not having a mature lady. I guess they forgot about Zhenya at age 18 skating great at the Olympics inspiring the nation or three coming off a foot fracture. So wasn't exactly skating like a little girl then.

Alina it's sticking around and I'm glad.

Scott512 · Jun 1, 2020

flanker said:
Alina announces she is going to Novogorsk tomorrow:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA5cZATlwDm/

The camera really is her friend. I really think is Alina is becoming much more comfortable being raining and defending Olympic and World Champion.

Mathman · Jun 1, 2020

I don't think that anyone is "dismayed" if Alina wants to continue. If she wants to skate, let her skate. What's dismaying about that?

If she wins, she wins. If someone else wins, that's sports.

TallyT · Jun 2, 2020

Mathman said:
I don't think that anyone is "dismayed" if Alina wants to continue.

Oh I wouldn't bet on that, for both OGMs in 2018 the cries of "you've got yours, you're past it, go away" seem to have started almost before the ice was properly cleared :palmf:

And got even louder after worlds.

As long as Alina is doing it for herself and not for some sort of duty - and I think we can assume in the absence of data that she most certainly is - it's a great thing for the sport that she is, especially given that when it starts up again it is going to need the stars and drawcrads. I was playing around with worldwide wiki stats yesterday (after seeing a post of the most searched skaters for the last 5 years on reddit) and Alina is the second most popular, both for the last year (by a sizable margin) and the last month. Evgenia was fourth for the year and third for the month, so I think the powers that be will really be happy to for her to stick around too.

Scott512 · Jun 2, 2020

Mathman said:
I don't think that anyone is "dismayed" if Alina wants to continue. If she wants to skate, let her skate. What's dismaying about that?

If she wins, she wins. If someone else wins, that's sports.

A lot of people are and were dismayed especially after the Olympics and then when she bombed the Worlds free state in 2018. The cries for her to leave the sport were rampant.

TallyT said:
Oh I wouldn't bet on that, for both OGMs in 2018 the cries of "you've got yours, you're past it, go away" seem to have started almost before the ice was properly cleared And got even louder after worlds.

As long as Alina is doing it for herself and not for some sort of duty - and I think we can assume in the absence of data that she most certainly is - it's a great thing for the sport that she is, especially given that when it starts up again it is going to need the stars and drawcrads. I was playing around with worldwide wiki stats yesterday (after seeing a post of the most searched skaters for the last 5 years on reddit) and Alina is the second most popular, both for the last year (by a sizable margin) and the last month. Evgenia was fourth for the year and third for the month, so I think the powers that be will really be happy to for her to stick around too.

Thank you for remembering. Your first paragraph says it all. Your second paragraph is pretty damn good too. But most importantly accurate.

Thrashergurl · Jun 2, 2020

Mathman said:
I don't think that anyone is "dismayed" if Alina wants to continue. If she wants to skate, let her skate. What's dismaying about that?

If she wins, she wins. If someone else wins, that's sports.

I agree with this 100%. It’ll be interesting to see how she does this season. I’m looking forward to seeing her compete while fully dedicated and motivated. It’ll be an exciting season!

Gabby30 · Jun 2, 2020

TallyT said:
Oh I wouldn't bet on that, for both OGMs in 2018 the cries of "you've got yours, you're past it, go away" seem to have started almost before the ice was properly cleared And got even louder after worlds.

As long as Alina is doing it for herself and not for some sort of duty - and I think we can assume in the absence of data that she most certainly is - it's a great thing for the sport that she is, especially given that when it starts up again it is going to need the stars and drawcrads. I was playing around with worldwide wiki stats yesterday (after seeing a post of the most searched skaters for the last 5 years on reddit) and Alina is the second most popular, both for the last year (by a sizable margin) and the last month. Evgenia was fourth for the year and third for the month, so I think the powers that be will really be happy to for her to stick around too.

Who did vote in those popularity ranking? Just because 100 or 1000 people are voting, their opinion doesn't represent the opinion of other 1000 people who didn't vote ( since not everyone is on Reddit or on other social media platforms. ) These kind of results are not accurate and doesn't say anything about the general popularity of a person.
It's like those people on twitter, who think they proved a point because their post got 1K + likes/retweets, yet in reality they only reached the people who are on twitter. There are over 7 billion people on this planet, what about their opinion?

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2020

Scott512 said:
A lot of people are and were dismayed especially after the Olympics and then when she bombed the Worlds free state in 2018. The cries for her to leave the sport were rampant.

I don't recall this being the case. There were probably some fans of other skaters who would have liked to see her step aside because of her dominance that season, but I didn't get a sense that there was overwhelming opposition to her continuing to compete. I actually think it was the opposite; many more fans were eager to see how she would grow artistically in the next few seasons.

Mathman · Jun 2, 2020

Babby30 said:
Who did vote in those popularity ranking? Just because 100 or 1000 people are voting, their opinion doesn't represent the opinion of other 1000 people who didn't vote ( since not everyone is on Reddit or on other social media platforms. ) These kind of results are not accurate and doesn't say anything about the general popularity of a person.

It's like those people on twitter, who think they proved a point because their post got 1K + likes/retweets, yet in reality they only reached the people who are on twitter. There are over 7 billion people on this planet, what about their opinion?

Still, those 7 billion people are not interested in figure skating at all. I do think it means something when a skater's fans are so enthusiastic that they take the trouble to vote in these popularity contests, or they "like" social media posts that are favorable to their girl or guy.

Mathman · Jun 2, 2020

drivingmissdaisy said:
I don't recall this being the case. There were probably some fans of other skaters who would have liked to see her step aside because of her dominance that season, but I didn't get a sense that there was overwhelming opposition to her continuing to compete. I actually think it was the opposite; many more fans were eager to see how she would grow artistically in the next few seasons.

That is my recollection, too. Fans were sad that she ran out of gas at the 2018 worlds free skate, but wrote it off to season fatigue and peaking at the Olympics. The next year she did fine and won the world championship, although she had to share early season buzz with Rika Kihira.

Now the issue is whether she can hold off the younger bunch. Yes or no, either way, I do not see anything for fans to be riled up about. Let's see what the new season brings, if there is a new season.

halulupu · Jun 2, 2020

Mathman said:
That is my recollection, too. Fans were sad that she ran out of gas at the 2018 worlds free skate, but wrote it off to season fatigue and peaking at the Olympics. The next year she did fine and won the world championship, although she had to share early season buzz with Rika Kihira.

Now the issue is whether she can hold off the younger bunch. Yes or no, either way, I do not see anything for fans to be riled up about. Let's see what the new season brings, if there is a new season.

Alina will return with vengance! She is not done yet. Eteri will invest a lot in her. If she can make alina a worldchampion or Omedalist again, her critics can go home

Fried · Jun 2, 2020

halulupu said:
Eteri will invest a lot in her.

I thought at Eteri there was no such thing as investing an extraordinary amount in someone. :biggrin:

flanker · Jun 2, 2020

Fried said:
I thought at Eteri there was no such thing as investing an extraordinary amount in someone.

I think when Eteri is investing equally into everyone that the amount of investment everyone gets is more than many coaches invest exclusively into one particular skater.

Fried · Jun 2, 2020

Everything will be fine!

AshWagsFan · Jun 2, 2020

If Zagitova makes a comeback, are the odds in her favor to make the Worlds/Europeans team? I feel that’s the only reason why she’d want to make a comeback, however, it could also be sparked by her missing the sport. Either way it is exciting And I hope she decides to continue!

Amei · Jun 2, 2020

AshWagsFan said:
If Zagitova makes a comeback, are the odds in her favor to make the Worlds/Europeans team?

Complicated answer: Outside of Kostornaia/Shcherbakova/Trusova I think that Zagitova has the best chance of going to Europeans or Worlds. However, based on the technical elements that the 3 other Russian ladies brought either consistently or came with enough of those elements to compensate for multiple mistakes, and what we've seen Zagitova put in competition - She's unlikely to make Worlds or Europeans if they still have their technical elements from last season and she's not increased her's. The upside for her is that the second season slump has tended to be a thing, the 3 skaters she's behind have all missed significant training time and are at an age where a long break in hardcore training potentially caused the "puberty monster" to affect their more difficult elements; though she's missed more training time from them and was having her own consistency problems prior to going on break, whether it was mental exhaustion that's been healed by the break or a different unsolved problem that affected Zagitova's consistency only she can really answer that and we'll see when competition starts, whenever that may be.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2020

Amei said:
Complicated answer: Outside of Kostornaia/Shcherbakova/Trusova I think that Zagitova has the best chance of going to Europeans or Worlds. However, based on the technical elements that the 3 other Russian ladies brought either consistently or came with enough of those elements to compensate for multiple mistakes, and what we've seen Zagitova put in competition - She's unlikely to make Worlds or Europeans if they still have their technical elements from last season and she's not increased her's. The upside for her is that the second season slump has tended to be a thing, the 3 skaters she's behind have all missed significant training time and are at an age where a long break in hardcore training potentially caused the "puberty monster" to affect their more difficult elements; though she's missed more training time from them and was having her own consistency problems prior to going on break, whether it was mental exhaustion that's been healed by the break or a different unsolved problem that affected Zagitova's consistency only she can really answer that and we'll see when competition starts, whenever that may be.

I agree. I think it's likely that at least one of the three will see a decline in consistency such that a peak form Alina can sneak in there. Sasha was already scoring low enough to be caught by Alina towards the end of the season, although Sasha could have made modifications to her programs to remove risk if she sought just to medal instead of win. Anna does the two toughest quads, so it's not hard to imagine the extended break giving her problems on the timing of those jumps. Aliona is, for me, the best woman skater who has ever come out of Russia and would be tough to beat even if she lost the 3A. The hard thing for Alina is that much of it is out of her hands, but a scenario in which one (or more) of those ahead of her struggles next season is not at all implausible.

Scott512 · Jun 2, 2020

Fried said:
I thought at Eteri there was no such thing as investing an extraordinary amount in someone.

You thought wrong.

Muwahhhhhhhh!

Seriously though at this point I think the reigning and defending olympic and world champion can pretty much coach herself. Eteri Will be there to motivate her when she needs it and push her hard when she needs it. I still see medals in Alinas future. She does too.

Will Zagitova return?

lesnar001

flanker

Scott512

Scott512

Mathman

TallyT

Scott512

Thrashergurl

Gabby30

drivingmissdaisy

Mathman

Mathman

halulupu

Fried

flanker

Fried

AshWagsFan

Edges for days.

Amei

drivingmissdaisy

Scott512

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