Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

flanker said:
As nussnacker said, I didn't indicate anything about that someone is approving the way Plushy said that. Just that the idea of Aliona never liking her programs is nothing more than a construct. You just shouldn't see enemies mindlessly everywhere you turn to, scold people, call names and behave this way. No wonder you say there's no discussion with the people, no one who just have a different opinion on some things is interested to discuss anything with you if you act like this to anyone whïth whom you disagree

If you have read what Nussnacker wrote, you also have read what I replied. The fact that you react to one and ignore the other shows a lot and tells me that my assessment is fundamentally correct.

Fried said:
OK. It was very early in the morning, almost in bed. I probably misinterpreted it. Sorry. But this permanent talk of "Everyone is against Eteri" is extremely annoying. I don't know how it is in other places (I only read here), but in the GS Forum the Eteri disciples seem to me to be far more penetrative than the Eteri opponents. I am neither one nor the other, but the disciples literally challenge resistance. There is a solid reason that there is currently a lot of criticism.

eliana · Aug 2, 2020

plushyfan said:
I wasn't happy because of it. I believe Alyona said she doesn't like the programs but the "horror" word was rude. I believe that was a part of the war. There are many incomprehensible and very controversial things in this case. If I have time I'm going to collect the moments of the war from the beginning. (That is going to be hard because of the death of Cekoni... When she worked we can find everything on Plush's official site in very logic method.)

A TT coach attacked Plush after Sasha left for the plushenko angels. I know Yana also intervened

flanker · Aug 2, 2020

Fried said:
If you have read what Nussnacker wrote, you also have read what I replied. The fact that you react to one and ignore the other shows a lot and tells me that my assessment is fundamentally correct.

And how about to think that in the moment I started to write a reply, your post wasn't here yet? So I would say that it's my assessment which is actually correct reading your aggressive words. You just want to be in the permament state of war, I suppose.

plushyfan · Aug 2, 2020

eliana said:
A TT coach attacked Plush after Sasha left for the plushenko angels. I know Yana also intervened

Zheleznyakov. But the story is much older.

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

Speaking of much older. Here is proof that Alyona left TT mentally much earlier. Not just two weeks ago, not just in May, no, already in March. She gave us a sign and nobody could read it. :laugh:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B96jBUyoxwU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Resa · Aug 2, 2020

yume said:
Maybe because Aliona is the only one who had the guts to tell Eteri face to face that she was leaving.

I don't think that's the reason. Sasha changed coaches during lockdown when Eteri was in the USA. Face to face wasn't possible and I don't think people had these expectations

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

flanker said:
(...) So I would say that it's my assessment which is actually correct reading your aggressive words. You just want to be in the permament state of war, I suppose.

That may be. As a fighter for justice and against duplicity. Sancho, bring me Rosinante!

katymay · Aug 2, 2020

Kostornaya is the top ranked senior in the world, not to mention she is one of the most beautiful girls who has ever stepped on ice. And yet, it is Trusova getting endorsements, publicity etc. (As I assume Plushenko promised that she would). You don't think that would rankle team Kostornaya? Whether Plushy is or is not up to coaching either of these girls remains to be seen, but it will be nice to see Kostornaya cash in and get the public profile she deserves. Commercial sponsorships, and maybe HER own show on Match. (lol) It might be the case that neither girl makes the Olympic team-(puberty), so why not get what you can get WHEN you can get it?
As far as the programs-it is very difficult to speak up , and tell a choreographer/coach that you don't like your program. I used to just change it here and there after the fact, and hope the choreographer/coach didn't notice. Or I would scrap the entire thing and have my mother provide an excuse. It takes an awful lot of courage for a teen-aged girl to confront a coach and basically say: This isn't working. It seems as if Kostornaya was trying to express her dissatisfaction and no one was listening, and instead, dismissing her as being 'rude'. (I'm rather surprised that Daniel isn't aware that teen girls tend to be-on occasion- rude and moody).

nussnacker · Aug 2, 2020

katymay said:
Kostornaya is the top ranked senior in the world, not to mention she is one of the most beautiful girls who has ever stepped on ice. And yet, it is Trusova getting endorsements, publicity etc. (As I assume Plushenko promised that she would). You don't think that would rankle team Kostornaya? Whether Plushy is or is not up to coaching either of these girls remains to be seen, but it will be nice to see Kostornaya cash in and get the public profile she deserves. Commercial sponsorships, and maybe HER own show on Match. (lol) It might be the case that neither girl makes the Olympic team-(puberty), so why not get what you can get WHEN you can get it?
As far as the programs-it is very difficult to speak up , and tell a choreographer/coach that you don't like your program. I used to just change it here and there after the fact, and hope the choreographer/coach didn't notice. Or I would scrap the entire thing and have my mother provide an excuse. It takes an awful lot of courage for a teen-aged girl to confront a coach and basically say: This isn't working. It seems as if Kostornaya was trying to express her dissatisfaction and no one was listening, and instead, dismissing her as being 'rude'. (I'm rather surprised that Daniel isn't aware that teen girls tend to be-on occasion- rude and moody).

It makes sense. Also with the uncertainties that Covid world produced, with possible cancellation of og22 altogether, financial impact of covid and Aliona already making plans to go with her medical studies in 2 years, it would make sense for her to want to cash in on her achievements now, because it very well may be she’s just more focused on her future medical path.
But that’s just a speculation.

Jeanie19 · Aug 2, 2020

Moving to Plushenko , also means future ice shows, so that could have played a factor. Even once she starts university, she may want the income from those shows to cover living expenses. And I'm sure Covid played a part in the decision too.

flanker · Aug 2, 2020

Fried said:
That may be. As a fighter for justice and against duplicity. Sancho, bring me Rosinante!

It's good when you attack windmills, not that good when you actually stab people. Self-rigteous defendands are like NKVD.

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

katymay said:
Kostornaya is the top ranked senior in the world, not to mention she is one of the most beautiful girls who has ever stepped on ice. And yet, it is Trusova getting endorsements, publicity etc.

Well, that's your very own view of things and Scott512 will give you 100%, no, 200% right. I personally consider such comparisons to be unworthy, but since I don't want to just leave them uncommented: apart from last season, Trusova has defeated Kostornaia more often than Konstornaia Trusova and she is a two-time World Junior Champion. She also revolutionized women's figure skating with her quads. One can argue about beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I prefer both Anna and Sasha in this category. But as I said, it is not worth arguing about and for sports it is irrelevant anyway. It's more of a thing for fans in love and the advertisers.

Gabby30 · Aug 2, 2020

People are lying. All the time. No matter the age, gender, nationality ect. Why are some people upset about the possibility that Kostornaia is "lying"? How do you know she isn't? Just because you want her to be a perfect, innocent girl who can't have bad thoughts? This kind of people don't exist

ruga · Aug 2, 2020

Sasha got endorsements as a young talent and trailblazer in the sport, and Anna as a two time Russian champion - I believe more Russians watch RusNats than Euros or GPF. Aliona would have got hers too had she won Worlds, but unfortunately she didn't get the chance. And since Aliona only plans to compete for two more seasons, she has to start getting contracts now if she wants to make a good sum of money until the end of her career.

However, I believe that Rozanov and the 3A that she possibly didn't get back played a bigger part. Not sure about not wanting to skate with others - why would she go to train with one of her main competitors (unless she had personal problems with rinkmates or something like that)?

flanker · Aug 2, 2020

Fried said:
Well, that's your very own view of things and Scott512 will give you 100%, no, 200% right. I personally consider such comparisons to be unworthy, but since I don't want to just leave them uncommented: apart from last season, Trusova has defeated Kostornaia more often than Konstornaia Trusova and she is a two-time World Junior Champion. She also revolutionized women's figure skating with her quads. One can argue about beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I prefer both Anna and Sasha in this category. But as I said, it is not worth arguing about and for sports it is irrelevant anyway. It's more of a thing for fans in love and the advertisers.

Avoiding your another useless attack against Scott I would just add that the score of those two on the bigger competitions is just 5:4 for Sasha, considering Junior and senior nationals, junior worlds, JGPF, GPF and Europeans. Here is the list:

Sasha finishing above Aliona (not necesarilly winning the whole competition):
2017 RJN
2017 JGPF
2018 JW
2019 RN
2019 RJN

Aliona finishing above Sasha (also not necesarilly winning the whole competition):
2018 JGPF
2019 GPF
2020 RN
2020 Europeans

There can be some other Russian junior cup competitions from the past, but those are the important ones.

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

flanker said:
Avoiding your another useless attack against

What does attack mean here? Am I wrong or am I doing someone wrong? Do you think Scott512 would NOT agree at least 100% here? I can not believe that. He posted an estimated 1000 times here that Alyona is the most beautiful skater in the world, which means nothing else, that everyone else is less beautiful. Basically, I find something like this outside of an FF actually unacceptable, but since in this extreme case I see it as a mere provocation, I now avoid any reaction to it.

flanker said:
I would just add that the score of those two on the bigger competitions is just 5:4 for Sasha, considering Junior and senior nationals, junior worlds, JGPF, GPF and Europeans. Here is the list:

Sasha finishing above Aliona (not necesarilly winning the whole competition):
2017 RJN
2017 JGPF
2018 JW
2019 RN
2019 RJN

Aliona finishing above Sasha (also not necesarilly winning the whole competition):
2018 JGPF
2019 GPF
2020 RN
2020 Europeans

There can be some other Russian junior cup competitions from the past, but those are the important ones.

In other words. It's exactly like I said. Apart from last season, Trusova has defeated Kostornaia more often than Konstornaia Trusova and she is a two-time World Junior Champion.

Thank you for showing that Trusova is still ahead even if you include last season. :laugh:

nussnacker · Aug 2, 2020

Fried said:
Well, that's your very own view of things and Scott512 will give you 100%, no, 200% right. I personally consider such comparisons to be unworthy, but since I don't want to just leave them uncommented: apart from last season, Trusova has defeated Kostornaia more often than Konstornaia Trusova and she is a two-time World Junior Champion. She also revolutionized women's figure skating with her quads. One can argue about beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I prefer both Anna and Sasha in this category. But as I said, it is not worth arguing about and for sports it is irrelevant anyway. It's more of a thing for fans in love and the advertisers.

You don’t have to get so defensive when anyone says Aliona is the most beautiful skater. You can straight up assume it’s their opinion, they’re allowed to think she’s the most beautiful skater in the world, that’s not meant as an insult to Sasha.
If they think she’s a better skater than Sasha - that’s also just how they see things.
You’re absolutely right, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To you and many Sasha is the most beautiful, strong and empowering female skater in the world right now, and to many others it’s Aliona.

It’s puzzling for me too, why Aliona hasn’t picked up a major sponsorship yet, she’s undeniably a well known skater in Russia. I think it’s a combination of factors, mainly from a marketing point of view.
Anna is often more careful with her words, she’s very well spoken and got 2 RN titles - competition, russians not involved in FS care about. Sasha is a record breaker - a concept people not involved in FS will easier understand as well.
While Aliona is known to speak her mind and be a little mischievous in general, my worry is that what I consider to be her sincerity and honesty caused companies to be careful of taking her on, in case she won’t be careful and makes some controversial statements it will backfire for them. I personally don’t think that this is a real risk with Aliona, she’s a smart girl, but that’s just my thoughts on her sponsorship problems.

lesnar001 · Aug 2, 2020

Fried said:
What does attack mean here? Am I wrong or am I doing someone wrong? Do you think Scott512 would NOT agree at least 100% here? I can not believe that. He posted an estimated 1000 times here that Alyona is the most beautiful skater in the world, which means nothing else, that everyone else is less beautiful. Basically, I find something like this outside of an FF actually unacceptable, but since in this extreme case I see it as a mere provocation, I now avoid any reaction to it.

In other words. It's exactly like I said. Apart from last season, Trusova has defeated Kostornaia more often than Konstornaia Trusova and she is a two-time World Junior Champion.

Thank you for showing that the calculation works even if you include the last season. :Lachen:

First of all, I believe Scott is talking about the beauty of her skating, not his opinion of physical beauty.
Second, Scott has nice things to say about all the Russian ladies.
Third, I have never seen Scott be directly insulting to other skaters in his enthusiam for Aliona's skating skills.

Many others here have expressed the same sentiment about Aliona's skating.
And unlike Scott, some of them have been insulting to other skaters when talking about her skills.

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

nussnacker said:
You don’t have to get so defensive when anyone says Aliona is the most beautiful skater. You can straight up assume it’s their opinion, they’re allowed to think she’s the most beautiful skater in the world, that’s not meant as an insult to Sasha.
If they think she’s a better skater than Sasha - that’s also just how they see things.
You’re absolutely right, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To you and many Sasha is the most beautiful, strong and empowering female skater in the world right now, and to many others it’s Aliona.

It’s puzzling for me too, why Aliona hasn’t picked up a major sponsorship yet, she’s undeniably a well known skater in Russia. I think it’s a combination of factors, mainly from a marketing point of view.
Anna is often more careful with her words, she’s very well spoken and got 2 RN titles - competition, russians not involved in FS care about. Sasha is a record breaker - a concept people not involved in FS will easier understand as well.
While Aliona is known to speak her mind and be a little mischievous in general, my worry is that what I consider to be her sincerity and honesty caused companies to be careful of taking her on, in case she won’t be careful and makes some controversial statements it will backfire for them. I personally don’t think that this is a real risk with Aliona, she’s a smart girl, but that’s just my thoughts on her sponsorship problems.

I would relax. It won't be long before Alyona presents her first sponsorship deal.

Fried · Aug 2, 2020

lesnar001 said:
First of all, I believe Scott is talking about the beauty of her skating, not his opinion of physical beauty.

You can believe whatever you want. The reality speaks a different language.

lesnar001 said:
Second, Scott has nice things to say about all the Russian ladies.

I will not contradict that.

lesnar001 said:
, I have never seen Scott be directly insulting to other skaters in his enthusiam for Aliona's skating skills.

Did I say that somewhere? No way.

lesnar001 said:
Many others here have expressed the same sentiment about Aliona's skating.
And unlike Scott, some of them have been insulting to other skaters when talking about her skills.

I don't want to deny that. However, I noticed a recurring pattern with Scott, in which Sasha was repeatedly subtly insinuated that she could not bear to train next to the most beautiful and best skater. This is not a direct insult. It is subtlety at the highest level.

But all of this is irrelevant to what this is about. Someone praised Alyona and I said Scott would totally agree. Where is the problem?

Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

Fried

eliana

flanker

plushyfan

Fried

Resa

Fried

katymay

nussnacker

one and only

Jeanie19

flanker

Fried

Gabby30

ruga

flanker

Fried

nussnacker

one and only

lesnar001

Fried

Fried

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