Random Figure Skating Questions | Page 21 | Golden Skate

Random Figure Skating Questions

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
I once saw a 'track sheet', but I don't remember whose: lines on a paper following a skater's long program as it would appear on the ice.

If you watch a skater's track you could see how far s/he skates and how well the skater covers the ice. From this you should be able to estimate their speed, which is often discussed. I understand that if a skater does lots of crossovers they fare longer than if they do intricate moves, but still.

The stupid or not questions:
* Do skaters usually draw track sheets or whatever they are called?
* How? From recording from above, using some other technique or randomly draw?
* Do skaters/coaches use track sheets only for them selves?
* Wouldn't skaters who cover a lot of ice and have a long track want to show it publicly? Hoping the judges got to see it?
* I would like to see some if anyone knows where to find them :)
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
^Isn't that cheating? (the applause track) Also, I think it's a terrible idea--what if you fall? You'll just look like a fool, having your soundtrack applaud you after a fall. There are a few 6.0 skaters who might be able to pull it off, but it's the last thing I'd recommend for a COP skater.

RE: The Feeling Begins. I still think it was the best SP of Worlds 2004. Screw their stupid time deductions.

The only egregious applause soundtrack I can remember is Vanessa Gusmeroli's 1997 LP. How she ever made the podium is beyond me.

I also have this very vague recollection of Michael Weiss adding claps to one of his programs. I think he did a flamenco SP so that may be it. He, Audrey, and that wife of his were in the studio clapping if I can remember correctly.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I once saw a 'track sheet', but I don't remember whose: lines on a paper following a skater's long program as it would appear on the ice.

IIRC Peggy Fleming's autobiography The Long Program used this (in two pieces) as endpieces.

Yup, here it is -- on three pages at the beginning of the book.

The stupid or not questions:
* Do skaters usually draw track sheets or whatever they are called?
* How? From recording from above, using some other technique or randomly draw?
* Do skaters/coaches use track sheets only for them selves?

As far as I know -- and I cannot speak from personal experience with elite skaters -- skaters, coaches, or choreographers may draw them by hand as a choreography tool, mostly to keep track that the program is visiting all parts of the ice in interesting patterns.

A few weeks ago my coach drew part of such a pattern for me to suggest exiting a jump and entering the next one in a different direction in the program we were putting together.

Judges might sketch in travel patterns during the performance in progress as part of their note taking if they have adequate room on the papers they're given to take notes. But if they devote a lot of attention to mapping out the program they won't have time or attention to take many other notes and also input their GOEs into the computer during the performance.

* Wouldn't skaters who cover a lot of ice and have a long track want to show it publicly? Hoping the judges got to see it?

A hand-drawn sheet wouldn't have any more value than the planned program content sheet -- it's what the skater plans to do, but the judges have to judge what the skater actually does during the competition. For all sorts of reasons the performance might not live up to the plan, and also a freehand drawing made during/after a performance will not be a strictly accurate reflection of what the skater actually did.



* I would like to see some if anyone knows where to find them :)

If we're talking about the same thing, there wouldn't be any archive of such things. Skaters/coaches/choreographers might draw them on paper and then either throw them away or keep them in their own records for future reference. (E.g., could be useful for reviving an old program)

My coach had an app on her tablet where she could draw it on the screen with her finger. And then she didn't save/deleted it immediately.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Yep, Sandpiper, I still cannot understand what Manley did better than Ito...... Ito should have won the free skate. No question. Manley's lines were just as undeveloped as Ito's. Manley was such a whiner. She never saw a world podium before Calgary and then she thinks she lost the gold medal due to judging shenanigans? J Sale took a page out of the whining book of Manley. uggh. Canadians.


It's been pointed out earlier in this thread that Ito skated very early in the LP b/c her school figures scores were so low. As a result, she didn't get the kind of high scores in the LP that she might have received if she'd skated later. The judges were "leaving room" for later skaters. Not saying it's fair, though. (I really have to watch both of those programs again!)

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?42225-Stupid-Questions-Thread/page26

Something else that's unfair: sweeping statements about various nationalities, e.g., "Canadians," "Americans," etc.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Yeah, "Uggh, Canadians" is a little unfair. I raised the original viewpoint (Ito should've won the free, Witt deserved gold overall), and I happen to be Canadian. ;) And as Gkelly (I think) pointed out, Ito winning the free would just give her... fourth place.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Still, Liz Manley's performance was great because she seized the moment and skated her heart out on home ice.

About choreographers charts, I once saw one that Lori Nicole made for Michelle Kwan. With a little care and artistic flair, these things could be works of art. I could see myself framing and displaying the Peggy Fleming ones on my walls.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Yeah, "Uggh, Canadians" is a little unfair. I raised the original viewpoint (Ito should've won the free, Witt deserved gold overall), and I happen to be Canadian. ;) And as Gkelly (I think) pointed out, Ito winning the free would just give her... fourth place.

I also should have made it clear that we Americans ain't no saints, either! :biggrin:

Medal or not, Ito certainly served notice that night that she was a force to be reckoned with.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Yeah, "Uggh, Canadians" is a little unfair. I raised the original viewpoint (Ito should've won the free, Witt deserved gold overall), and I happen to be Canadian. ;) And as Gkelly (I think) pointed out, Ito winning the free would just give her... fourth place.

I was sort of saying that tongue in cheek. It just seemed strange though that after the S/P fiasco, Liz Manley was saying that she should have a gold medal given to her because the judging was just as corrupt back then (she probably has a point). I was like "Hon, you skated your best in your home country and surpassed your dreams by winning the silver. Now you think you should be retroactively given the GOLD?!?!?! Please.... Be thankful for what you have and for your one moment in time." The only other obnoxious whiner I can think of immediately off my head is Shae-Lynn, god was she a PITA to listen to. So unfortunately I can only think of three Canadians. I'm sure Americans are just as guilty, they just aren't as obnoxious. IMHO.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Meh, I'm not against Liz Manley because she's an "obnoxious whiner." I don't think being a good sport means rolling over and accepting whatever result. I just don't think she deserved the gold medal because she didn't skate well enough. That's all. Same with S/P. I wouldn't have given them gold, because I think B/S were better. They're athletes, not saints.

What I care about is the skating, which I will defend and critique. ;)
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
I was sort of saying that tongue in cheek. It just seemed strange though that after the S/P fiasco, Liz Manley was saying that she should have a gold medal given to her because the judging was just as corrupt back then (she probably has a point). I was like "Hon, you skated your best in your home country and surpassed your dreams by winning the silver. Now you think you should be retroactively given the GOLD?!?!?! Please.... Be thankful for what you have and for your one moment in time." The only other obnoxious whiner I can think of immediately off my head is Shae-Lynn, god was she a PITA to listen to. So unfortunately I can only think of three Canadians. I'm sure Americans are just as guilty, they just aren't as obnoxious. IMHO.

Sheesh. I don't remember Manley saying anything like that in 2002 (not that it proves anything). 14 years after the fact -- enough already! :disapp:
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Thanks a lot gkelly. It's so nice that you take time to answer stupid questions.

IIRC Peggy Fleming's autobiography The Long Program used this (in two pieces) as endpieces.

Yup, here it is -- on three pages at the beginning of the book.

I don't have Peggy Flemings book and never saw her skating. Maybe I should order the book…

As far as I know -- and I cannot speak from personal experience with elite skaters -- skaters, coaches, or choreographers may draw them by hand as a choreography tool, mostly to keep track that the program is visiting all parts of the ice in interesting patterns.

A few weeks ago my coach drew part of such a pattern for me to suggest exiting a jump and entering the next one in a different direction in the program we were putting together.

Judges might sketch in travel patterns during the performance in progress as part of their note taking if they have adequate room on the papers they're given to take notes. But if they devote a lot of attention to mapping out the program they won't have time or attention to take many other notes and also input their GOEs into the computer during the performance.

So the drawings are probably just a help for the coach and skater to remember their plan. Good luck with yours :thumbsup:

If we're talking about the same thing, there wouldn't be any archive of such things. Skaters/coaches/choreographers might draw them on paper and then either throw them away or keep them in their own records for future reference. (E.g., could be useful for reviving an old program)

My coach had an app on her tablet where she could draw it on the screen with her finger. And then she didn't save/deleted it immediately.

I'm pretty sure the pattern I saw was of a male skater from US or Canada. Maybe he just thought it was fun to show it on the net.

Anyway, thanks again :)

ETA wow, I jus saw that you can watch the actual pages in the book's preview... lovely drawings :bow: Now I have to find the skate on youtube and see if she follows her drawing :laugh:
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
The only egregious applause soundtrack I can remember is Vanessa Gusmeroli's 1997 LP. How she ever made the podium is beyond me.

Fusar-Poli Margaglio 2002 FD, I Will Survive. Applause all the way in my memories. Surely less in reality but enough for a world reccord IMO.

Gusmeroli was lucky and she wasn't at 1997 Worlds.
Lucky because she made the podium with a fourth place finish LP because Slutskaya was 6th in the short after a minor mistake I can't remember and despite maybe a 3/3 (can't remember clearly that event, I don't know why).
Unlucky because she definitely should have won the SP instead of Lipinski and actually lost it because of the french judges who put her 2nd... it was a 5/4 decision. Guaillaguet would have his famous word after it happened, it was around : we have to stop thinking the US Ladies are always better. He must have been quite furious.

Gusmeroli SP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk47wTrUTrU

Lipinski SP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEeblaNbvc
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Wow, thanks for the side by side comparison. I never thought Gusmeroli was a good SKATER, too rough and little attention to the blade. But in this SP she showed otherwise, had bigger jumps, more interesting and difficult spins than Tara. I was impressed with Tara's basic skating, so smooth, fast and solid. Maybe it showed up more in the arena. But yeah, I have no problem if Gusmeroli was put first in this segment.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I have a question for anyone who knows alot about late romantic russian composers.

In Virtue and Moir's FD, they list Glazunov's The Seasons, Waltz from Glazunov's 2nd Concerto and Scriabin's Piano Concerto in F.

However, the music from the start of the FD to the end of the first Straight Line lift is not from any of them. Does anyone know which piece is used at the start of their FD?

Thanks
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Mind you sharing me the links of the performance? Since I don't follow ice dancing that much. I might try to identify the music.
 

Helix

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
What's that move that Mao does in her step sequences she spins in circles while on the tip of her blades called?

On a side note, why was hyperinflation banned?

If she is on the flat of her blade it is a loop (turn learnt in figures) and if it is on her toe pick I would call it a toe turn, I don't think there is a name for it.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Wow, thanks for the side by side comparison. I never thought Gusmeroli was a good SKATER, too rough and little attention to the blade. But in this SP she showed otherwise, had bigger jumps, more interesting and difficult spins than Tara. I was impressed with Tara's basic skating, so smooth, fast and solid. Maybe it showed up more in the arena. But yeah, I have no problem if Gusmeroli was put first in this segment.

The thing is, if you change one judge in the short, had the french judges voted for Gusmeroli, the title would have went to Kwan since she won the LP. Slutskaya also had two or three 1st place finish in the LP I think.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
More questions about jump combos under 6.0: Was there a limit to how many three-jump combos you can do? In COP you're only allowed one, but from what I understand about 6.0, you're allowed as many as you like as long as you don't exceed 3 combinations maximum?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
More questions about jump combos under 6.0: Was there a limit to how many three-jump combos you can do? In COP you're only allowed one, but from what I understand about 6.0, you're allowed as many as you like as long as you don't exceed 3 combinations maximum?

I think you're right -- I don't remember any rules about the number of jumps in a combo or sequence under 6.0.
 
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