2012 Cup of Russia Men FS. | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

Puchi

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
So, belittling the audience is the right reserved for Chan ubers. :laugh:

Your replies are getting so ridiculous I've come to think you're just trolling for the sake of it. It's getting so repetitive and same old-same old as the things you are criticizing. From now on I'll scroll over all your posts about mens competitions and read your posts on other topics. When you're talking about anything not related to Chan your posts are quite insightful and spot on.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
If a poster rubs you the wrong way you can do something about it. We have an ignore feature, then you don't have to bother with reading a post(er) that will upset you.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
That must have been some experience, watching that worlds live! I'd have been similarly anxious for everyone. Who could choose between Stephane, Jeff, and Daisuke--and then to add Brian, Johnny, and Evan to the mix.

That's an interesting point, that many of the greatest skating programs of recent times are also CoP gems. Certainly YuNa's programs qualify for that description. I wonder, though, whether some of these programs come from a time when CoP was calibrated slightly differently from the way it's set up now? Does anyone have any thoughts about that? I mean, at the beginning of CoP, Sasha held the points record for ladies for the first few years. She'd hardly score that high with such programs now. Have the criteria evolved?

Absolutely. You can split COP into two eras, roughly, and that coincides with the Turin Olympics. COP really became a different beast after Turin. Harsher penalties on URs and edge calls, more backloading bonuses, fewer elements. PCS rules became stricter than more relaxed. When Buttle won without a quad, it really became clear that COP was about collecting points, and that a lot of points everywhere is more valuable than a significant amount of points in one place.

But here's the thing: when I consider early COP programs, there aren't many that really take over discussion like the second era programs. If you could treat a season of figure skating like a best of album, I'm confident that there isn't a season that there would be less than 15 programs I'd rewatch without a second's hesitation.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Okay, my impressions after I watched Mens free skates on TV:

-I really liked Chan's, Kozuka's and Ten's programs as whole.
A couple of mistakes from Taka and Denis, it means so much room to grow/perfect their programs, as well as more points and higher standings. Taka needs some more work to project the program and make the music come alive, though. David Wilson has proved himself once again that he is a genius choreographer!
-As for Denis, I really like his progrmas last year and again this year. However, why does he have such difficult programs season after season? He was just inconsistent even with one quad last season. Why put 2 quads at this point? He needs to establish himself as a World/Olympic medal-worthys skater first with stable/consistent performances throughout the season. What's the hurry? He may end up injure himself I fear...

-It's the new season. Knock-knock, where are your new programs, Artur and Michal???
Especially Michal. He does not forever get 8's in PCS and judges love with such 'average' program, I think. His new SP, too. He will not make it onto the world podium on his own; will have to always rely onto other top skaters to make a couple of mistakes or perform badly. He has the technical goods. And pretty good musicality. Why does he put all his talent and ability to his competitive programs and try to stretch himself artistically??? His Kodo SP was the only one I really liked in his competitive programs so far.

-So nice to see Nobu got back on the track and his smiles. :) Also, very glad to see he tries to skate BIG this season, finally, which is something missing in his skating I thought, ever since he moved up to seniors in 2005-06 season. Took long time but kudos to Nobu, Mr. Barkell and Lori! :yes:

-Sad Menshov did not podium. Doubling the last jump into 2T really cost him...:no: So relieved to see Autur's fully-rotated quads, and land at least one. Good job, Zhan Bush! Not bad at all scoring almost 200 in his very first senior grand prix. :clap:

-:cry: to Johnny's withdrawal.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
So, belittling the audience is the right reserved for Chan ubers. While others can't even say any single word of critics of your guy's score without "shows plainly disrespect and arrogance to judges". The same old song that we were hearing from you guys for the whole last season- "the audience is dumb, we Chan fans and the judges are the ones with expertise!" Unfortunately for you the vast majority of fs community are quite knowledgeable. That's why no one ever took your guys' argument about stupid audience seriously :p. Probably that's why none of chan ubers took my advice and didn't let it go- the keep repeating how stupid everyone who disagree with their guy's score is. Pathetic. :laugh:

Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?! Obviously you have a remarkable ability to twist other poster's meanings, and utilize them to fit your purposes. Of course you can question about the judges' marks. When did I say you cannot?!:rolleye: What I've said "belittling", "disrespect", and "arrogance" was entirely about what you've said and particularly in one of your post #144. Please don't twist my meaning and make it like I was refering to a group of people which I was not! You do not represent anyone, neither the audiences, nor the group of Takahashi fans. I don't see anyone is as malicious as you are!

I've realized that it is impossible to make logical and rational conversations with you. So as Toni has suggested above, from now on, I am putting you into my ignore list which is so far still empty.:sarcasm:
 
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let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Your replies are getting so ridiculous I've come to think you're just trolling for the sake of it.
:thumbsup: Case in point. If you'll read this thread, you'll see that in my post you replied on I used the wording of a Chan uber's post where he/she lectured me on what I should post. How wonderful to see that you call the said writing "ridiculous" and "trolling". Because that was exactly what his/her post was like imo. And, you see, when different people write the same things, even using the same words, their posts are treated differently, depends on either they're fans of the guy or not. So I made a point of it. :)

Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?!
No, they are surely not. They are the only ones with objective truth to speak on the behalf of the knwoledgeable majority. :laugh:
Knock-knock, where are your new programs, Artur and Michal???
I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.
 

Ice Diva

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?! Obviously you have a remarkable ability to twist other poster's meanings, and utilize them to fit your purposes. Of course you can question about the judges' marks. When did I say you cannot?!:rolleye: What I've said "belittling", "disrespect", and "arrogance" were entirely about what you've said and particularly in one of your post #144. Please don't twist my meaning and make it like I was refering to a group of people which I was not! You do not represent anyone, neither the audiences, nor the group of Takahashi fans. I don't see anyone as malicious as you are!

I've realized that it is impossible to make logical and rational conversations with you. So as Toni has suggested above, from now on, I am putting you into my ignore list which is so far still empty.:sarcasm:

It's pointless feeding the trolls, Bluebonnet - they just want attention and are probably either off their meds or posting from an institution ...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
:thumbsup: Case in point. If you'll read this a point of it. :)

No, they are surely not. They are the only ones with objective truth to speak on the behalf of the knwoledgeable majority. :laugh:
I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.

Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!

Menshov if he keeps landing his jumps, he can crack the Top 10 at Worlds imo, he is doing well this season and got a new PB of 226+ , a higher score of 230+ he can make top 10 by this season. Gachinski imo, has Absolutely ZERO Chance of going to Worlds, he can barely crack 200+ score, he wont probably even make the Euros team it could be Zhenya, Menshov and Voronov
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
are probably either off their meds or posting from an institution ...
What a shame that this forum doesn't have a signature option. I would take this quote for mine as Chan ubers' motto about their opponents. :laugh:
Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!
Gorshkov sounds more sober and realistic than Piseev. Today he said to media about the tough situation in Men's field of Team Russia. The reason of which is the 5th Olympic event- Team Trophy. He said it's quite obvious that it's better when two different skaters compete in Team's and Men's, for this Russia needs two skaters. Also, the participation in the Olympic Team event will be based directly on the results of Worlds-2013. So, again a strong skater from Russia in London is required: www.team-russia2014.ru/article/6164.html . Plush actually never said that he will not go to Worlds for sure. He always says something like "we'll see... it depends.. decide later...". No one really expected that such situation would come. And the poor skating of Artur this season is also not much of a hope. The team for worlds will be set after Euros, Gorshkov said. So it's quite possible that Plu will go. I personally think that the second spot should be get by those who lost it- either Gachi or Voronov, since they will be getting it for their possible Olympic medal in Team's. Why should Plu bother to do their job. On the other hand- I don't want him to skate in two Olympic events at his age. Well. :think:
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
What a shame that this forum doesn't have a signature option. I would take this quote for mine as Chan ubers' motto about their opponents. :laugh:
Gorshkov sounds more sober and realistic than Piseev. Today he said to media about the tough situation in Men's field of Team Russia. The reason of which is the 5th Olympic event- Team Trophy. He said it's quite obvious that it's better when two different skaters compete in Team's and Men's, for this Russia needs two skaters. Also, the participation in the Olympic Team event will be based directly on the results of Worlds-2013. So, again a strong skater from Russia in London is required: www.team-russia2014.ru/article/6164.html . Plush actually never said that he will not go to Worlds for sure. He always says something like "we'll see... it depends.. decide later...". No one really expected that such situation would come. And the poor skating of Artur this season is also not much of a hope. The team for worlds will be set after Euros, Gorshkov said. So it's quite possible that Plu will go. I personally think that the second spot should be get by those who lost it- either Gachi or Voronov, since they will be getting it for their possible Olympic medal in Team's. Why should Plu bother to do their job. On the other hand- I don't want him to skate in two Olympic events at his age. Well. :think:

Interesting words from gorshkov. it would be best to have an option for the men's event. That seems like common sense. Sure menshov is doing the best now even though voronov actually has a gp medal. Hope voronov can keep it up and redeem himself.

Also it's true plushenko is not exactly no no no it's more of a hemming and hawing.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Plush actually never said that he will not go to Worlds for sure. He always says something like "we'll see... it depends.. decide later...". No one really expected that such situation would come. And the poor skating of Artur this season is also not much of a hope. The team for worlds will be set after Euros, Gorshkov said. So it's quite possible that Plu will go. I personally think that the second spot should be get by those who lost it- either Gachi or Voronov, since they will be getting it for their possible Olympic medal in Team's. Why should Plu bother to do their job. On the other hand- I don't want him to skate in two Olympic events at his age. Well. :think:

Except Russia has only one spot for Men's at Worlds so it's not possible for Team Russia to send a 2nd man to go with Plushenko. :laugh: One can always dream however.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I read that in a different way than you did. I read it that Gachinski or Voronov should go to London and place in the top 10 and get that two spots back because their terrible performances in Nice cost Russia the second spot and potential for third spot because they were so terribe and so awful and really disappointed the skating federation of russia very badly.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I read that in a different way than you did. I read it that Gachinski or Voronov should go to London and place in the top 10 and get that two spots back because their terrible performances in Nice cost Russia the second spot and potential for third spot because they were so terribe and so awful and really disappointed the skating federation of russia very badly.

For your interpretation to be correct, you have to infer the said poster meant the 2014 Worlds in Japan. How likely is it however that Plushenko will skate in the Sochi Olympics, then the World Championship a month later, given his age? Like it or not, Sochi Olympics will most probably be Plushenko's final competition. And we have to further assume Russia will necessarily get at least two spots at the London Worlds - but there is no such thing as guranteed outcome in any sport.

Conclusion: It is not possible to interpret the quoted statement in any other way besides that the referenced world team is London Worlds. To do otherwise requires the kind of leap in logic that is beyond the comprehension of any reasonable person here.
 

Butterscotch17

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.

I don't mind a repeated program so much if it is a good program (and even then I would prefer new each season), but I don't even like Artur's old free skate. The music is not very interesting, and Artur's talent is not interpreting music, so I think he needs something better. Hope he'll give his new program another chance.

As for Plushenko, Worlds 2013 would definitely be even more interesting with him there, because he is always a contender, but do you think he will go and risk losing to Patrick and Dai and whoever else before the Olympics in Sochi? I don't know. If Russia does send someone like Artur or Sergei Voronov and they only get one spot for the Olympics, it is pretty certain that Plushenko would get that one Olympic spot, unless someone else steps up drastically, so I kind of doubt getting two spots is Plushenko's main priority. Just my opinion.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
For your interpretation to be correct, you have to infer the said poster meant the 2014 Worlds in Japan. How likely is it however that Plushenko will skate in the Sochi Olympics, then the World Championship a month later, given his age? Like it or not, Sochi Olympics will most probably be Plushenko's final competition. And we have to further assume Russia will necessarily get at least two spots at the London Worlds - but there is no such thing as guranteed outcome in any sport.

Conclusion: It is not possible to interpret the quoted statement in any other way besides that the referenced world team is London Worlds. To do otherwise requires the kind of leap in logic that is beyond the comprehension of any reasonable person here.

No this is not accurate. I never ever once thought of anything after the 2014 Olympics aT all. I must have misread let's talk in exactly the way I said I did. The second spot for Sochi should be got by voronov or Gachinski as one is totally reserved for plushenko no doubt about it. So It should not be up to plushenko to get a spot for voronov or Gachinski but the total reverse.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
To do otherwise requires the kind of leap in logic that is beyond the comprehension of any reasonable person here.
Then you probably shouldn't limit other people's capacity in comprehension and logics as equal to yours. :biggrin:

I must have misread let's talk in exactly the way I said I did. The second spot for Sochi should be got by voronov or Gachinski as one is totally reserved for plushenko no doubt about it. So It should not be up to plushenko to get a spot for voronov or Gachinski but the total reverse.
No, you haven't misread me. That was what I said- they both lost the second spot in Nice, so one of them now should get it back in London.

but do you think he will go and risk losing to Patrick and Dai and whoever else before the Olympics in Sochi? I don't know. If Russia does send someone like Artur or Sergei Voronov and they only get one spot for the Olympics, it is pretty certain that Plushenko would get that one Olympic spot.
Plu already took that risk and met both Dai and Chan at JO last month where he lost to Dai but won over Chan (the last was easy :laugh:). Of course Worlds is not JO but smth. bigger. The point is Plu's main target is Sochi, all the rest is just preparation, as he said a lot. At the same time I doubt that if he goes to London, he will go with the minimum target- finish in the first ten. Still I think he doesn't really want to compete alone in both Team and Men's event in Sochi. So, he might consider his trip to London as his contribution to make his schedule in Sochi less occupied. Russia has one spot anyway as a host country. And it definitely goes to Plu :). Gachi and others can care, but it's their problem.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
^^^oh good. I thought I had your meaning! Well it's going to be super interesting and maybe dramatic.
 
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