2015 NHK Mens Free Skate | Page 50 | Golden Skate

2015 NHK Mens Free Skate

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
The closest thing afterwards I remember was Han Yan - when he won JW 2012, I think a lot of people compared him to Hanyu and predicted a long time rivalry.

:yes: And isn't it funny to go back and look - who was standing alongside Han on the podium that day? Why, a very familiar pair of young American boys, one of whom was very popular with the Belorussian ladies ;)

(And my gosh, all three of them look positively like babies to look back on those pictures now. Half a point, the margin was, I remember it so well...)

That makes me a bit nervous about the future. Artur didn't make it, Nan Song either, Han Yan stalled... I wonder how many of the current promising youngsters will meet the same fate and how many of my favorites will be amongst them. At least Javi is on the upwards trajectory!

Artur isn't done yet. :scowl:
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Why does it matter if millions and billions of people can't tell the difference between 4 rotations vs 3 rotations..

In the post I responded to, you made the following comment:

"Do you think millions around the world tune in to watch the Olympics mens figure skating every 4 years is there to watch: Ohhh - this is so artistic?"

Now you're saying something completely different: "The important thing is people do follow the sport DO care, and they are the patron of the sport."

To the best of my knowledge, there are not millions of people who follow the sport and who care about quads versus triples - there are millions of people who watch the Olympics, only a small percentage of whom have any real knowledge of figure skating.

?? :scratch2: Where did you get this from my post? You know... this is not the first time you bring race into replying to my posts completely out of the left field. What is that you are really trying to say? Just say it.

In the post I responded to, you made the following statement to Art & Sport:

"I wonder if Boyang and Hanyu had been American, you'd still feel the same way." E.g., you imply that Art & Sport is viewing Boyang and Hanyu negatively because they're not American. In previous posts, you've made similar comments.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
"I wonder if Boyang and Hanyu had been American, you'd still feel the same way." E.g., you imply that Art & Sport is viewing Boyang and Hanyu negatively because they're not American. In previous posts, you've made similar comments.

But patriotism does not imply race. I live in London, we are so mixed and multiculturalled here (I presume America is too?), we can't even tell which who is from which country by race, and frankly we have little care. I am just surprised you keep jump onto this conclusion with my comments, which probably shows what you think of me personally than what I actually stated. ie/ Nationality biases, Pro USA interests.

As for the other thing. Well yearh, Quads means 4, 4 = 3+1 more, ie/ It sound more impressive than a triple. ie/ Wow I am impressed because the crowd is going wild and that looked way harder. Wow big score, standing ovation, wow I am right. Vs triples, clean, polite applause. What did i just watched? Boring... change channel to snooker. The end.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
After seeing Hanyu one wonders if there is any competition. He is just so far superior. Chan should seriously consider retiring if he can't add two quads or another axel and quad at the very least. Hanyu isn't so much better pc wise but he is like 20to 30 points tes wise over so called challengers . At least Javier is ablet o compete and see what Hanyu is doing - Chan has no tech coach - really a dancing instructor. I don't even think Johnson can pass the coaching levels test. But hanyu has set a very higher almost unattainable bar.
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
I watched the Men's FS, Yelled very loudly with my family and then went on a trip right away so I couldn't share my joy with all the other Yuzu fans....

1. YUZU!! I really was resigned to never seeing his programs clean because they are SO hard. I may never see them clean again, but I have the memory and the videos on my computer! This is the best set of back-to-back programs I have seen from any man ever! (sure, it's just my opinion)
The scores are huge and the record may be there for quite a while. The previous SEIMEI performances left me a little frustrated about the detail of the step-sequence but this time he put energy and passion into it, stayed on the rhythm and made it look so cool!

2. Boyang...this time a little less clean in the jumps, but I can see some glimmers of musicality in his movements which says that if he really trains hard, as Hanyu did when he was a young teen, he can get his LP to look more coherent and less of a jumps expo. He is so cute. The medal ceremony was delightful. Yuzu complimenting Boyang on his Jumps and everyone looking so pleased with their places on the podium.

3. Mura...is it a better shirt? It's less furry, but now the colors are all messed up. No matter, he kept it together in the Free just enough to make it on the podium. I'm really, really hoping that Mura can get his free to look as good as his short so that he can make it to the 4CC team at least. Go Mura!

4.Grant, what a wonderful performance. :luv17:My family had not noticed him much before, but by the time his program ended we all thought it was a very strong skate. The skating, expression, speed and spins stuck out most in my mind about him. Is this a turning point for him? Could he make a splash at Nationals?

5. Keiji! Another surprise performance. This was much better than his SP. The music suits him better, and his jumps were the kind you can get +GOEs on. Keiji has been injured and had a difficult time last season, but maybe he will be a late bloomer like Machida. These quads he landed in the SP and the FP were the first he has landed cleanly in Senior international competition I think? So Kudos and Well done!

P.S. just remembered, when Yuzu won Junior World Championships 2010, Grant was also competing as a junior...I think?
 
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shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
After seeing Hanyu one wonders if there is any competition. He is just so far superior. Chan should seriously consider retiring if he can't add two quads or another axel and quad at the very least. Hanyu isn't so much better pc wise but he is like 20to 30 points tes wise over so called challengers . At least Javier is ablet o compete and see what Hanyu is doing - Chan has no tech coach - really a dancing instructor. I don't even think Johnson can pass the coaching levels test. But hanyu has set a very higher almost unattainable bar.

Hanyu at his best has absolutely no competition whatsoever, but he's also inconsistent. As the past shows, any one of the top men can beat him on his off days (which he has a lot of).
I guess we'll see what the future has in store. :popcorn:
 

sajoya

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
After seeing Hanyu one wonders if there is any competition. He is just so far superior. Chan should seriously consider retiring if he can't add two quads or another axel and quad at the very least. Hanyu isn't so much better pc wise but he is like 20to 30 points tes wise over so called challengers . At least Javier is ablet o compete and see what Hanyu is doing - Chan has no tech coach - really a dancing instructor. I don't even think Johnson can pass the coaching levels test. But hanyu has set a very higher almost unattainable bar.

If Yuzuru keeps skating clean then yes, Patrick can't beat him. However for Yuzuru's case, it is his to lose and he tends to do mistakes every now and then. I'm not sure if we'll ever see Yuzuru skate this clean anytime soon (hopefully I’m wrong), so I don't understand why you're so quick to write Patrick off like that. If Patrick can give out a clean short and free, he can beat a flawed Yuzuru. Let’s not forget his score for his free program at SC, even without another quad he scored remarkably well. Also, I recall Patrick saying that he doesn't care about winning anymore. He's only back for the love of figure skating, so...there you go.
 

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
If Yuzuru keeps skating clean then yes, Patrick can't beat him. However for Yuzuru's case, it is his to lose and he tends to do mistakes every now and then. I'm not sure if we'll ever see Yuzuru skate this clean anytime soon (hopefully I’m wrong), so I don't understand why you're so quick to write Patrick off like that. If Patrick can give out a clean short and free, he can beat a flawed Yuzuru. Let’s not forget his score for his free program at SC, even without another quad he scored remarkably well. Also, I recall Patrick saying that he doesn't care about winning anymore. He's only back for the love of figure skating, so...there you go.

Bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit.
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
I thought Hanyu got compared to Plushenko.

Hanyu chose as his skating Idols both Plushenko and Johnny. From a very young age he cut his hair like Plushenko and learned the beilman spin etc.
He also said that watching Johnny skate to Ave Maria was so moving, he wanted to have the same kind of artistic ability.

Yuzu learns in a way that absorbs the parts he respects in other skaters and makes it his own.

One of the big reasons Yuzu gave for moving to the Cricket Club in the first place was because Fernandez was there and Fernandez has an awesome Quad Sal...if Boyang spends too much time around Yuzu....:laugh:
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
If Yuzuru keeps skating clean then yes, Patrick can't beat him. However for Yuzuru's case, it is his to lose and he tends to do mistakes every now and then. I'm not sure if we'll ever see Yuzuru skate this clean anytime soon (hopefully I’m wrong), so I don't understand why you're so quick to write Patrick off like that. If Patrick can give out a clean short and free, he can beat a flawed Yuzuru. Let’s not forget his score for his free program at SC, even without another quad he scored remarkably well. Also, I recall Patrick saying that he doesn't care about winning anymore. He's only back for the love of figure skating, so...there you go.

I couldn't think of a time in recent history that Chan has done a clean short AND free in the same competition. We know that this season, he had two SPs that were far from clean. So I went and looked up the last two seasons in which Chan competed and found that he had just ONE competition in that time where he had a clean SP and FS.

2013-2014 Season

SC SP clean; FS: at end, 1a, lost final spin
TEB ** clean SP and FS **
GPF SP 2z; FS 4t+2t

Olympic Team SP 3rd: 4t+2t, 3a-so
Olympics SP 3a-so; FS 4t-hd, 3a-so, 2a-so

2012-2013 Season

SC SP 3a-hd; FS 4t+2t, 4t-2hd, 3a<↓, 3z-so
CoR SP 4t+1t; FS 2a, 2lo
GPF SP 2z+3t; FS 4t↓, 4t+sq, 2a*+2t*

Worlds 2013 SP clean; FS 3z↓, 3a<↓ 2z+2t

The problem is Chan can't do more than two quads and one 3a, and if he has errors on any of those he just isn't going to be competitive with Hanyu even if Hanyu isn't quite perfect. Sure Chan says he doesn't care about winning any more, but he cares about winning. You know he wouldn't have returned to skating if he didn't have 2018 on his mind.
 

sajoya

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
The problem is Chan can't do more than two quads and one 3a, and if he has errors on any of those he just isn't going to be competitive with Hanyu even if Hanyu isn't quite perfect. Sure Chan says he doesn't care about winning any more, but he cares about winning. You know he wouldn't have returned to skating if he didn't have 2018 on his mind.

You made some good points there. In general, when it comes to men's figure skating, I think we can agree that everyone is hot and cold. We'll never know what to expect, so we have to just wait and see. Really? Patrick is aiming for Olympics 2018? Oh wow, first time hearing about that. Okay, I think that concludes it. Patrick is back to win. Case closed :laugh:
 

solani

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
Hanyu chose as his skating Idols both Plushenko and Johnny. From a very young age he cut his hair like Plushenko and learned the beilman spin etc.
He also said that watching Johnny skate to Ave Maria was so moving, he wanted to have the same kind of artistic ability.

Yuzu learns in a way that absorbs the parts he respects in other skaters and makes it his own.

One of the big reasons Yuzu gave for moving to the Cricket Club in the first place was because Fernandez was there and Fernandez has an awesome Quad Sal...if Boyang spends too much time around Yuzu....:laugh:
Haha, no, please no! But at least even Hanyu wouldn't do a 4Lz at the end of his FS. Such a jump deserves to be in the beginning. I also thought that about a quad-triple combo ... :scratch3:
I'm really glad that Olympic champions don't retire early nowadays. Everyone can see that Hanyu loves this sport and I feel blessed that we can still see him compete.
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
But patriotism does not imply race. I live in London, we are so mixed and multiculturalled here (I presume America is too?), we can't even tell which who is from which country by race, and frankly we have little care. I am just surprised you keep jump onto this conclusion with my comments, which probably shows what you think of me personally than what I actually stated. ie/ Nationality biases, Pro USA interests.

As for the other thing. Well yearh, Quads means 4, 4 = 3+1 more, ie/ It sound more impressive than a triple. ie/ Wow I am impressed because the crowd is going wild and that looked way harder. Wow big score, standing ovation, wow I am right. Vs triples, clean, polite applause. What did i just watched? Boring... change channel to snooker. The end.

I'm sorry, you're correct, national origin does not = race. In the US, laws prevent discrimination based on national origin as well as race, and this is what I should have referred to. Nevertheless, since you stated you meant only patriotism, which I consider a bit different, I apologize.

With regard to your other point, you keep going back and forth between what appeals to the cognoscenti and what appeals to the common man as support for focussing on quads to the exclusion of other things. You make a whole lot of unsupported assumptions - that the crowds recognize and roar at quads only, that quads look hard (isn't that one of the amazing things about Boyang Jin's 4Z-3T that he makes it look easy) and that people will find anything else boring.

I personally believe there is room in competitive skating both for skaters who are more athletic / less artistic and skaters who are more artistic / less athletic. But just as a skater who executes a 1T gets no credit for it, a skater with a quad but mediocre performance/execution/ choreography/ transitions should not be awarded the same or higher PCS as a skater without a quad but with better skills in those areas. And it happens far too much.
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Maxim's program is just terrible, or is it an effect coming from a bad skate?

I don't get all the fuss about Kovtun, he's my least favourite of the Russian guys. There are several who are up and coming and are not making anything like as many silly mistakes as he does. His music choices are dire and I get so fed up with his 'deer-caught-in-the-headlights' facial expression.
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
They need to ditch Menshov completely, and increase the support for Pitkeev who has much more substance than Kovtun, Voronov, and Mensov combined. They also need to do something...ANYTHING with Kovtun. He has the potential and he sometimes (albeit rarely) has nice, fleeting, transient moments in his programs but the majority of his skating is not good and shouldn't be getting more than high 7s in components (and maybe even that is being nice). How he gets those components in the short program is mind boggling...
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
They need to ditch Menshov completely, and increase the support for Pitkeev who has much more substance than Kovtun, Voronov, and Mensov combined. They also need to do something...ANYTHING with Kovtun. He has the potential and he sometimes (albeit rarely) has nice, fleeting, transient moments in his programs but the majority of his skating is not good and shouldn't be getting more than high 7s in components (and maybe even that is being nice). How he gets those components in the short program is mind boggling...
well Kovtun's SP is quite nice you know, I mean in term of ideas and choreography, not execution. :coffee:
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
well Kovtun's SP is quite nice you know, I mean in term of ideas and choreography, not execution. :coffee:

His free program is better than his past ones. Even that demoted doll/marionette middle section. Lol I actually like the costume too...
 
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