2015 Skate America Mens SP Oct 23

[Meoima]

Ross Miner's was the performance of the night for me. I love Billy Joel anyway, but I thought the choreography and interpretation of the music was absolutely spot on, and I found his energy in the performance to be tops of the night as well.

Miner has nice SS and I find him among the fastest here. In practice he looked fast too.

For all that, I thought the judging was pretty spot on. The cleanest, most technical skates are all virtually tied at the top of the leader board. They all had very similar weaknesses.

Agree about this.

Honestly all of these men are potato kings so I don't know who will do ok in the free.

 

[rain]

Huh. I thought Menshov had one of the better programs. Quite honestly, from the top 3, Aaron, Menshov and Han Yan's, I liked his best by far.

Oh the program is more sophisticated, I agree. I just thought he skated it with zero interest, kinda paint-by-numbers.

 

[Rissa]

Oh the program is more sophisticated, I agree. I just thought he skated it with zero interest, kinda paint-by-numbers.

And now I'll have to rewatch it to see if I agree with that impression. What a chore.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

I wish Max Aaron would wear costumes like Shoma Uno's --- dark, all one color, and with a V neck. That would make him look taller and more impressive. The white-on-black look just cuts him in two and makes Max look a bit chunky, and the blousy tops actually makes him look as if he has a bit of a gut.

I agree, he needs a softer look. His build reminds me of Elvis Stojko, very muscular. higher pants and a top that is not so tight fitting would work better.
It was a very impressive skate from Max, exciting to see.

I enjoyed Ross' program as well.
I think Jason's costume is a little too much. It almost looks silly. His choreography is impressive though.

So happy skating is back!

 

[Blades of Passion]

While that is true, I don't think Pitkeev was as good as [Hanyu at 2011 Cup of China] yesterday,

I WOULD have given him better PCS though

I wouldn't put him on the same level as Hanyu in 2011 either, but compared to this field and their performances, he was tops to me.

I'm just beyond tired of anyone trying to defend anything based on the given protocols. It's like trying to defend the concept of a specific afterlife based on any one "magical God-given" book. These numbers will differ wildly for reasons beyond what the skaters really did on the ice. If Plushenko had gone out there and given that exact performance of Pitkeev, we know he would have scored 90. It's just the same old story.

I'm not understanding all the Max doubters out there. The program, while not my favorite piece of music, was a HUGE improvement from what he's done in the past and the cleanest one of the night.

His best SP was Tron: Legacy. It actually excited him and he moved TO the music. His quad was better back then as well. It's become smaller, more spinny off the ice. He's made small improvements to his skating skills but his actual performing and interpretation is worse in comparison. You haven't made some kind of great "reinvention" just because you decide to skate to Nessun Dorma and Swan Lake and use some softer arms. He doesn't even need to skate soft to all of Nessun Dorma, he totally throws away the climaxes. Probably because there's this guy wailing opera while he's skating and he doesn't get it. Doesn't speak to him.

 

[karne]

I'm not understanding all the Max haters out there. The program, while not my favorite piece of music, was a HUGE improvement from what he's done in the past and the cleanest one of the night.

It's Max. You can always tell when he's had a good skate because the bashers come flooding in. They still can't forgive that his big breakout moment involved him beating Jeremy at Nationals. And they still can't forgive that his 4S-3T is the best jump combination of any of the US men.

I don't think anyone could've predicted Max being in first place going into the free skate

Ahem.

 

[karne]

I think Max was put first only because he was skating in US. Other than his jumps nothing really works. Spins were almost basic, steps and interpretation were the worst among all the other boys in this competition. Even the Australian had better choreo/steps.

Well that's just bloody rude on two levels. First, Max had a wonderful skate yesterday so stop being so butthurt! Second, BRENDAN IS A VERY FINE SKATER. There's no need to bash on him just because you can't control your urge to bash on Max.

 

[Rissa]

If Plushenko had gone out there and given that exact performance of Pitkeev, we know he would have scored 90. It's just the same old story.

I'm sorry, but Plushenko would have never give a performance like that. He actually knew how to perfrom.

Adian had no audience connection whatsover, his delivery was snooze-worthy. Skating skills good, jumps good, but that's about the only things that performance had going for it.

 

[zschultz1986]

It's Max. You can always tell when he's had a good skate because the bashers come flooding in. They still can't forgive that his big breakout moment involved him beating Jeremy at Nationals. And they still can't forgive that his 4S-3T is the best jump combination of any of the US men.)

Sorry, but while he is the best jumper and fastest skater in the US, that's the only thing he's the best at, and the other things you're suppose to do in skating (spinning, footwork, transitions, artistry) are either average to poor. This isn't hate. These are facts. Just like saying Jason Brown won't be world medalist without a Quad. I'm a huge Jason fan and I can admit that. However, you're fooling yourself if you think that Max's PCS was anything other than a reflection of the fact that he was clean. Let's see how those PCS look when he has mistakes. If he never has any mistakes any more, then by all means give him all the PCS. However, Max doesn't do the things or enough of the things, well enough, to get the type of PCS to be a contender at Worlds. It ALL hinges on a pristine clean Short and Long, where as others can maybe make a mistake or two, but the quality of the things they do other than jumps will accrue them enough points to offset any one mistake. It's also the quality of the performance. He was better here, but he's is skating with music, not TO music. Sure, fake it till you make it, by all means, but for those of us who've seen true performances, it still looks fake. Max doesn't has to be the "typical skater" but he has to find SOME sort of artistry that works for him.

He had a great short, and deserves good scores for it. I actually said that. However, you're fooling yourself if you think most of what he did outside of the speed and jumps was world medalist quality.

Also, why is being critical, "being a hater?" I root for all Americans (as well as my favorites) to be very good. Max was great here, but he still hasn't progressed enough in some area to be where I think he should be (which is on the podium at Worlds.)

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm sorry, but Plushenko would have never give a performance like that. He actually knew how to perfrom.

Adian had no audience connection whatsover, his delivery was snooze-worthy. Skating skills good, jumps good, but that's about the only things that performance had going for it.

It was snooze-worthy if you're looking only for bombast, I suppose.

 

[Rissa]

It was snooze-worthy if you're looking only for bombast, I suppose.

I'm perfectly capable of appreciating a slower piece if done well. That was not it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Adian Pitkeev won this. HE WON.

Max Aaron's inferior skating skills, performance, and interpretation can take a seat. TAKE A SEAT.

I can't believe I missed this. The fanboy fever is strong with this one.

Aaron won. Pitkeev was 6th. Who's taking a seat exactly?

 

[georgia]

Karne Max was Perfect! It can't get any better! After all is just The beginning of the skating season! If we want skating to be part of the OG, then the skater has to be an athlete first! Quads count! As for his artistry , he is coming along. I remember how rough Brian Boitano was. But he won the Olympics did he not? I am just saying....

 

[Blades of Passion]

Ross Miner's was the performance of the night for me.

I would have put him the highest on PCS, he was quite underscored. It was the overall best balance of strong skating skills, flowing choreography, musicality, and an enjoyable performance.

He should work to make some of his movements bigger and project more confidence. The very ending note of the music is slightly clunky as well, could be changed to something more melodic. He has very good spins but a couple of the choices could be thought out better (remove the "butt" spin, put the jump feature in the flying sit and hold that final position of the combo spin longer instead).

The ability is there to make the program a masterpiece. The small little issues he had on a couple of the jump landings surely held the judges back somewhat as well.

 

[karne]

Karne Max was Perfect! It can't get any better! After all is just The beginning of the skating season! If we want skating to be part of the OG, then the skater has to be an athlete first! Quads count! As for his artistry , he is coming along. I remember how rough Brian Boitano was. But he won the Olympics did he not? I am just saying....

He was perfect, wasn't he? I am sure there are many big things in his future! :yes:

 

[Mathman]

I don't see what is so "controversial" about Max Aaron, of all people. He is a powerful jumper who can rack up the points on the tech side. As for presentation, he is not the button on fortune's cap nor the soles of her shoes. He puts on an entertaining show. He has never been overscored vis-a-vis his competitors. Off ice he is charming and well-liked by his peers and fans alike.

If the charge is that sometimes someone beats someone else's favorite, well, that happens in every competition.

 

[Rissa]

I don't see what is so "controversial" about Max Aaron, of all people. He is a powerful jumper who can rack up the points on the tech side. As for presentation, he is not the button on fortune's cap nor the soles of her shoes. He puts on an entertaining show. He has never been overscored vis-a-vis his competitors. Off ice he is charming and well-liked by his peers and fans alike.

If the charge is that sometimes someone beats someone else's favorite, well, that happens in every competition.

Actually many feel he just has been overscored. That's why he's just bacome controversial.

 

[Ice Dance]

Well, people almost always become controversial after they win. Trying to think of a winner whom someone doesn't think was overscored in some portion of the competition, and it's not coming to me.

I appreciate Shoma quite a lot, but I'm not sure why people want to rush in to build up another version of Chan/Hanyu-flation. He's talented. He's getting great scores. He missed a jump in the short and had several scratchy landings in the free. Why not wait for a truly outstanding performance before pushing the huge PCS marks? He'll get them if he skates well. That's pretty obvious. As it is, if he reels off a bunch of solid competitions in a row, his scores will probably skyrocket just like Hanyu's did and then we'll all be griping when he finishes second after falling 5 times. I really think the sport can do without another "unbeatable" athlete. Last year, I really felt like the excitement returned to the men's event because even the best had to put up a great performance. Shoma had a good performance. It wasn't great. He has it in him. He doesn't need inflated scores to get the job done. Just confidence. And less pressure to win, rather than more, really does help. I think second place here is great for him heading forward into the rest of the GP season.

 

[Interspectator]

I think the scores were close, but not controversial.
If Shoma had won it would have been the same too.
Some would have agreed with the outcome and some would not.

 

[karne]

I think the scores were close, but not controversial.
If Shoma had won it would have been the same too.
Some would have agreed with the outcome and some would not.

I don't disagree that some would have disagreed with the results (I would have been one of them, purely on the TES basis), but I do think that if it had been the other way around, we would not have seen the vile attacks that have spewed forth against Max against Shoma. In fact, there would probably be people dancing in the thread and celebrating because yay, Evil Unartistic Max lost, serves him right for being so evil and unartistic!