2016 JGP St Gervais Ladies FS

[Layback11]

still preferring Alex's program way better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIreGUL0fds
:curse:

My smol ballerina, destined to fade...:sad21:

Sasha was truly unique and I miss her a lot.

 

[angelicadiablo]

What I like about Zagitova (and also Tsurskaya now that I re-watched her from last year) is that they both have the ability to do jumps right out of steps, there are no long preparation edges whatsoever. With the ways Zagitova's program was desinged this was almost emphasized - she had so little time to set up each jump...

What I keep wondering is why there is no similar advance in technical content with the ladies as with men? I mean, the female 3A was introduced back in the late 1980s only to reappear in a relatively similar fledgling manner the 2010s; in between the biggest thing has been 3+3 combos.

The envelope is now being pushed by doing the Medvedeva-Zagitova backend jumping passes to get at least a small advantage in BV which might translate to larger final TES. But why is there no push for women towards doing 3As and quads? If 11-year-old boys can do it, why not girls?

I find it hard to believe that it would depend solely on physical differences btw men and women - Midori Ito and Liza Tuktamisheva are both tiny and Mao Asada is not much bigger either... And that 11-yead old Canadian boy doing quads now does not look like a powerhouse. Boyang Jin is basically a stick figure and yet the 4Lz and everything else is there. Does it depend upon girls not being encouraged to take on more technical difficulty?

(puzzled) e

There are two Japanese juniors that are making their debut this season. Both of them has attempted a 3A in their LP at local competitions. One of them has been doing 3A-3T in practice.

 

[angelicadiablo]

I liked Alina's spins, the others positions she hit in the SP and the rippons were nice looking as well. I also thought she was a good competitor. I was a lot more impressed with her skating, posture, expression, positions and landings in the SP and thought her margin of lead was fair going into the LP, but I didn't see a clear distinction in the scoring between her SP and LP, which looked to have more errors technically and to be not as graceful or under control in terms of skating skills. One of the main reasons has been mentioned which is PCS. To me, Alina was marked too high in PCS relative to the other skaters, but I think she was also marked too generously in tech. She received over 4 points higher in PCS than both Kaori and Rin even though I actually liked their skating skills and expression in the LP better, especially Kaori's.. As I was watching the LP in real time I also noticed what looked like several urs for Alina that became clearer in slow motion. First of all, the backend triple loop in the triple lutz / triple loop combo looked like a ur with a large hook and tilt on landing, yet there was no call. I do commend her for trying to do a more aestheticallly pleasing backend 3 loop though, but her scoring was too generous on this combo. Also in the 3 F / 2Lo / 2 toe combo, both the 2 Lp and the 2 toe had significant hooks on landing that looked like clear urs and the 2 toe a stiff shaky landing as well. Yet, no ur was marked and the entire combo received a +.8 GOE. That said Kaori and Rin had technical errors as well which were quite noticeable, but under the system urs are scored harshly too.

I terms of overall performances, I liked Rin Nitaya's freeskate the best with her smooth and fully extended expressive motions in and out of jumps and Alina's SP the best for her picturesque positions and rippons. But, I also really like Kaori for her combination of power, genuine expression, and grace. I do think that Alina was clearly overscored though.

Alina is a victim of the Caroline Zhang Effect. The judges are not doing her any favors.

 

[Crazy27]

^^i would add that the Japanese junior girls have much better skating skills.

Then why are they not in ice dancing? facepalm

 

[largeman]

there was Lipnitskaya
then there's Zhenya Medvedeva
then Polina T came
and now the hybrid of Medvedeva + Polina T, welcome the new Zagitova

to be fair, Polina T has very good axel jumps and technique unlike the other Eteri students.

I am impressed with Alina's correct lutz takeoff edge and correct flip takeoff edge and the fact she repeats both jumps in the FS. Something not seen before with Eteri's previous stars. Even Polina gets a ! on her triple flip half of the time.

 

[Layback11]

Recap! https://salchowsandswarovskis.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/jgp-france-ladies-recap/

(Random: I think Alina's FS dress is Evgenia's SP dress from 2013-14.)

 

[invisiblespiral]

And I am done with the FS spreadsheet! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ak5opZWG_yuNr7mjxY0Bt_7Eg/edit#gid=1109873312

(Analysis will go up later. Also, does anyone want a graph of the relationship between start order and PCS or TES and PCS?)

 

[lavoix]

My smol ballerina, destined to fade...:sad21:

Sasha was truly unique and I miss her a lot.

I feel your pain....Proklova would have been such an amazing skater, she was such a breath of fresh air on the ice.

 

[hanca]

I feel your pain....Proklova would have been such an amazing skater, she was such a breath of fresh air on the ice.

She is still quite young, so I still hope that she will switch to pairs. Although Russia has quite a few pairs, it is still not as full as in ladies.

 

[gmyers]

Well, this point is just your opinion, as long as it is not specified anywhere in ISU rules.

If it would be about distrubution, and having all jumps in the second half wouldn't be much harder, we would have many skaters doing it, since the rule has been there for a while.
Instead, even in SP, which has only 3 jump passes, many still do two of them in the first half, if not all three. While with other elements everyone fights hard for each decimal of a point. To have 10% advantage on all the jumps makes a big difference, look at Zagitova's impressive base value in LP. Still, Eteri's youngsters are now seem to be only skaters using this advantage.

On the protocols it says "bonus for highlight distribution" it's not really an opinion. I thought the rule was for skaters to put some jumps in the second half not all of them.

 

[hanca]

On the protocols it says "bonus for highlight distribution" it's not really an opinion. I thought the rule was for skaters to put some jumps in the second half not all of them.

Well, as far as I am aware, the rules don't specify how many jumps they are allowed to put in second half to get the bonus, so putting all jumps in second half is within the rules. There is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Lipea]

On the protocols it says "bonus for highlight distribution" it's not really an opinion. I thought the rule was for skaters to put some jumps in the second half not all of them.

Hmm, thanks for noting, I've never noticed that.
The rule is a 10% bonus for jumps in the second half of the program. I don't think the rule itself says anything about distribution, does it?

 

[gmyers]

Well, as far as I am aware, the rules don't specify how many jumps they are allowed to put in second half to get the bonus, so putting all jumps in second half is within the rules. There is nothing you can do about it.

The rules should be clarified. ISU obviously wants distribution of elements. The didn't want almost all jumps in first half so they want all jumps in second half? They never banned all jumps in first half just like they haven't banned all jumps in second half. They want distribution of highlights.

Hmm, thanks for noting, I've never noticed that.
The rule is a 10% bonus for jumps in the second half of the program. I don't think the rule itself says anything about distribution, does it?

It doesn't define what distribution should be. So much of the rules are about balanced programs. The Bonus for post halfway jumps exist for balance. Distribution would seem to mean for both halves of a program.

 

[andyjo24]

That's not the reason. Tutberidze's girls have been super consistent. They usually don't fall (or only very, very rarely) and very rarely make a mistake. If you look at Skirda's skate yesterday, even without the harder jumps such as triple axel and quads he could be in top three if he went clean. Zagitova's score (at least the one in the SP, can't talk about her score for FS because junior men have not skated yet their FS) would do well in junior men. So it is not the lack of the harder jumps, it is their lack of consistency. Skirda can do exactly the same jumps as Zagitova and yet he is achieving much lower scores with them.

Tutberidze's girls are consistent UNTIL they hit puberty...

 

[Snow63]

The rules should be clarified. ISU obviously wants distribution of elements. The didn't want almost all jumps in first half so they want all jumps in second half? They never banned all jumps in first half just like they haven't banned all jumps in second half. They want distribution of highlights.

If they would have 'obviously' wanted 'distribution of elements' it would have been specified in the ISU rules. Everything that's not prohibited is allowed. So no fault by skaters.

 

[hanca]

Tutberidze's girls are consistent UNTIL they hit puberty...

I agree, but her boys are not consistent at all, pre or past puberty.

 

[chloepoco]

Then why are they not in ice dancing? facepalm

So are you saying if one has good skating skills they should be ice dancers, not singles skater?

 

[gmyers]

If they would have 'obviously' wanted 'distribution of elements' it would have been specified in the ISU rules. Everything that's not prohibited is allowed. So no fault by skaters.

I do not blame the skaters. All protocols say "bonus for highlight distribution" - they want jumps distributed. It's possible they never thought their breaking free skates in two and giving bonuses for jumps in the second half would lead to all jumps being in the second half. Now I feel it would be within their ideas of distribution to ban all jumps being in one half of a program no matter which half. They never banned putting all the jumps in the first half but thought the bonus would encourage more even division.

 

[blue_ice]

She is still quite young, so I still hope that she will switch to pairs. Although Russia has quite a few pairs, it is still not as full as in ladies.

Or maybe Canada can import her? Just like they do with hockey players

 

[hanca]

Or maybe Canada can import her? Just like they do with hockey players

Hey, that's getting a bit greedy, doesn't it? There are other countries that may argue that they are more in need! You have decent dancers, pairs and men, surely you don't need to have it all!