2017 Autumn Classic Intl Ladies FS

[Nika09]

My comments came in an answer to some posters who wonder why some skaters get way lower PCS than a girl like Kaetlyn for instance. Being in the arena and seeing the events unfold revealed the truth for me : some of the smaller girls have a harder time to cover the ice, to connect with the crowd and to emote musically.... After having seen Mai on tv/youtube a lot (last year and this year as well) I can tell you, that all the small details we can see on TV do not come across at the rink, and I was sitting in about the 2nd or 3rd row... for instance, I could see Keegan's Messing facial expressions in his Chaplin but nothing from Lil Bet or Mai.

Adequate PCS...in Ladies events...well last thing that I expected to see. So no its not about them at all.
I just want to say that this program is not hers, IMO. Also it wasn't her day, wish her better performance next time.

Have you watched Kaetlyn live? If not, how could you have decided you would feel the same whether you watch it live or not? That is prejudicial.

No, unfortunately i don't. Neither Katelyn nor Mai. But hope I would someday. I'm sure it's unforgettable experience to watch skaters live, right there. But program choreography that I'm talking about will not change anyway. Perception yeah possible, but not the construction.

 

[4everchan]

No, unfortunately i don't. Neither Katelyn nor Mai. But hope I would someday. I'm sure it's unforgettable experience to watch skaters live, right there. But program choreography that I'm talking about will not change anyway. Perception yeah possible, but not the construction.

I want to address this part of your comment.... i have watched figure skating since 1988... but the first time I went to a live competition was only last year... at ACI.. then, I went to Nationals in Canada, and then this year's ACI.

So, all my life, I saw it on tv or online, until last year... and I was very shocked as so many things are different live... if you have seen skating live all your life, I can see how you can perhaps make out what happens in a performance seen online... but if you don't have that experience there are so many things live that are very different....

Speed is something very different... Kaetlyn IS SUPER FAST and powerful...
Height
Quality of positions (for instance online, one cannot perceive Kaetlyn's extension in her back and neck which she keeps up for this program)...

You mention choreography... well you would be surprised because one of the important parts of choreography is ice coverage and the trajectories a skater will be creating on the ice... Live, you can really see a circular step sequence for instance compared to a serpentine one... or you can see the transitions better... you can see the skater covering the ice with different kinds of turns (or not!!!)

So to me, after having watched only 3 competitions, I have learned already that the camera neutralizes many things... making things that are very bad, less bad (like spins traveling, low speed or off axis jumps) and making things that are great less noticed (ice coverage, variety of patterns on the ice, changes of directions)....

For instance, I have always been a fan of Patrick Chan.... well, seeing him live brought me somewhere else... I had never noticed the details of his steps and turns, his speed and ice coverage, but mostly the quality of everything he does, before seeing him live... I was already a fan, but then, it was a mind blowing experience as he was 10 times better than i had imagined in my wildest dreams...

I hope one day you get to see Kaetlyn live.. In Patrick's fan fest, so many people come after each year's worlds or 4CC and say " I had never seen him live.. now I understand why he is so good and scores so well on PCS" it's a very weird thing for us, his fans, to hear... it is sort of sad at the same time as it just shows that some people just have some preconceptions of skaters based on not much else than seeing them on youtube through their phones or tablets...

Seeing skating live makes you a fan of skating in general not just of some specific skaters...

 

[Osmond4gold]

No, unfortunately i don't. Neither Katelyn nor Mai. But hope I would someday. I'm sure it's unforgettable experience to watch skaters live, right there. But program choreography that I'm talking about will not change anyway. Perception yeah possible, but not the construction.

Nika09, you have to see it live to appreciate her power, speed, ice coverage. All of which commentators talk about and we do not see, as TV truly does not do it justice. That Lutz as an example and the exit, is a thing of beauty!

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Sorry that I don't have the time or resources to see it live... I'd love to but just can't

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Sorry that I don't have the time or resources to see it live... I'd love to but just can't

Well not all of us do. I haven't seen a live skating competition in almost 8 years. Which is why I'm pretty thankful for YouTube.

But when I saw Stars on Ice about 2 or 3 years ago, and saw skaters like Virtue and Moir, Ashley Wagner (who pretty much did an SP worth of jumps), and Patrick Chan, I definitely got a sense of their skating qualities that the camera can't capture. I was truly astonished at Patrick's edge work ... so many times he leans into an edge (like a speed skater rounding a corner) and I think he's about to fall, but he somehow stays upright. His ice coverage is also incredible, and I can't figure out how he generates speed so easily.

If you're able to, I'd recommend at least catching an ice show with your favourite skaters. It'll really change your perspective of what you see on TV vs live.

 

[chloepoco]

Nika09, you have to see it live to appreciate her power, speed, ice coverage. All of which commentators talk about and we do not see, as TV truly does not do it justice. That Lutz as an example and the exit, is a thing of beauty!

I think it's all perspective, though. I agree that the majority of skating fans seems to favor power, speed and ice coverage; and from your posts, you don't care for the "smaller skaters" because they lack a connection to the crowd.

However, I am probably one of the few who actually doesn't care, or isn't "wowed" by power and speed. I have never seen Kaetlyn live, however, I have seen Ashley, Caroline K, and a few others known for their power and/or speed. But, out of all the skaters I have seen live, the one who impressed me the most, and made me a big fan, is none other than Satoko Miyahara. I know many people here criticize her small jumps, small stature, blah blah blah. I am just in awe of her refinement, her polish, her skills, and just the subtle way she is just so awesome!

But to get back to this competition, I think Kaetlyn is wonderful; Mai's skating is just more to my taste, as unpopular as that opinion might be.

 

[4everchan]

I think it's all perspective, though. I agree that the majority of skating fans seems to favor power, speed and ice coverage; and from your posts, you don't care for the "smaller skaters" because they lack a connection to the crowd.

However, I am probably one of the few who actually doesn't care, or isn't "wowed" by power and speed. I have never seen Kaetlyn live, however, I have seen Ashley, Caroline K, and a few others known for their power and/or speed. But, out of all the skaters I have seen live, the one who impressed me the most, and made me a big fan, is none other than Satoko Miyahara. I know many people here criticize her small jumps, small stature, blah blah blah. I am just in awe of her refinement, her polish, her skills, and just the subtle way she is just so awesome!

But to get back to this competition, I think Kaetlyn is wonderful; Mai's skating is just more to my taste, as unpopular as that opinion might be.

i think many of us value things you like in Satoko and Mai : they are exquisite skaters. There is no denying that.

The point some of us are making though is that figure skating remains a sport first and foremost and speed, power, ice coverage, jumps height and precision are all attributes that define a great skater athletically. And thus, some of us prefer skaters who can show those features AND also have good presentation. For instance, a few years ago, I wasn't fond of Gabby. She was too much about power for me... but she keeps refining her presentation year after year... last year, it was the first time for me that i was :this is a good balance ...

I hope I get to see Satoko live one day. I haven't yet. Maybe one day.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I think it's all perspective, though. I agree that the majority of skating fans seems to favor power, speed and ice coverage; and from your posts, you don't care for the "smaller skaters" because they lack a connection to the crowd.

However, I am probably one of the few who actually doesn't care, or isn't "wowed" by power and speed. I have never seen Kaetlyn live, however, I have seen Ashley, Caroline K, and a few others known for their power and/or speed. But, out of all the skaters I have seen live, the one who impressed me the most, and made me a big fan, is none other than Satoko Miyahara. I know many people here criticize her small jumps, small stature, blah blah blah. I am just in awe of her refinement, her polish, her skills, and just the subtle way she is just so awesome!

But to get back to this competition, I think Kaetlyn is wonderful; Mai's skating is just more to my taste, as unpopular as that opinion might be.

I respect your preferences and stating them. :thumbsup:

I also agree much with 4everchan's explanation of why certain qualities are more valued in figure skating, importantly by judges as well.

 

[4everchan]

Sorry that I don't have the time or resources to see it live... I'd love to but just can't

well you will one day i waited many years and it happened can you imagine my disappointment when I lived in Vancouver and we had to apply for tickets (it was a lottery system) and I got 0 figure skating tickets....so a few years later, when I had the chance to do it... I did it ... I don't know your age but let's assume you have many years of opportunities ahead of you.

In the meantime, what can be a bit closer to watching live is "fancams" so taken from the audience following the skater from further than close ups... it still doesn't give the same experience but I find it better than tv cameras that are constantly closing up on the skaters, removing any sense of ice coverage and speed.

 

[Violet Bliss]

well you will one day i waited many years and it happened can you imagine my disappointment when I lived in Vancouver and we had to apply for tickets (it was a lottery system) and I got 0 figure skating tickets....so a few years later, when I had the chance to do it... I did it ... I don't know your age but let's assume you have many years of opportunities ahead of you.

In the meantime, what can be a bit closer to watching live is "fancams" so taken from the audience following the skater from further than close ups... it still doesn't give the same experience but I find it better than tv cameras that are constantly closing up on the skaters, removing any sense of ice coverage and speed.

I'm a big fan of Chan's and Kozuka's skating skills and always felt Kozuka was underscored in PCS. It was a couple of fancams from up high that clearly differentiated their skating for me. One was of Chan's speeding down almost the whole length of the rink with twists and turns on one foot in no time (Take 5) whereas the other showed Kozuka skating "small" despite impressive skating skills on videos.

Of course for me seeing Patrick live also clearly differentiated his skating from even the likes of Browning and Buttle. His presence and every movement on ice are distinctly special and captivating.

eta. Once you value speed and ice coverage, you can get a better sense of such on video by also paying attention to the environment/background on video, the same way one notices whether a spin is centred or not but expanded. I also love how Patrick's body position in his camel spin often lines up perfectly with a horizontal line on the board.

 

[Ender]

I think it's all perspective, though. I agree that the majority of skating fans seems to favor power, speed and ice coverage; and from your posts, you don't care for the "smaller skaters" because they lack a connection to the crowd.

However, I am probably one of the few who actually doesn't care, or isn't "wowed" by power and speed. I have never seen Kaetlyn live, however, I have seen Ashley, Caroline K, and a few others known for their power and/or speed. But, out of all the skaters I have seen live, the one who impressed me the most, and made me a big fan, is none other than Satoko Miyahara. I know many people here criticize her small jumps, small stature, blah blah blah. I am just in awe of her refinement, her polish, her skills, and just the subtle way she is just so awesome!

But to get back to this competition, I think Kaetlyn is wonderful; Mai's skating is just more to my taste, as unpopular as that opinion might be.

Miyahara is better on screen to me. Her Boston performance was absolutely boring and not memorable to me at all. Her FS last season was very good though.

 

[rain]

For instance, I have always been a fan of Patrick Chan.... well, seeing him live brought me somewhere else... I had never noticed the details of his steps and turns, his speed and ice coverage, but mostly the quality of everything he does, before seeing him live... I was already a fan, but then, it was a mind blowing experience as he was 10 times better than i had imagined in my wildest dreams...

I hope one day you get to see Kaetlyn live.. In Patrick's fan fest, so many people come after each year's worlds or 4CC and say " I had never seen him live.. now I understand why he is so good and scores so well on PCS" it's a very weird thing for us, his fans, to hear... it is sort of sad at the same time as it just shows that some people just have some preconceptions of skaters based on not much else than seeing them on youtube through their phones or tablets...

Seeing skating live makes you a fan of skating in general not just of some specific skaters...

I remember vividly seeing Chan live for the first time. He is simply unparalleled in pure skating quality. This is not something that is visible on TV, and especially not on something like Youtube. Speed — or I should say differences in speed — is definitely not something that comes across particularly well on screen. Chan flies. But there's also an ineffable quality of the relationship of his blades to the ice that's almost indescribable to those who have not seen it live.

On another note, seeing live competition really gave me a whole new appreciation of pairs. The side by side spins, which we take for granted a good deal, are so impressive, or not, live.

 

[kevinVchicago]

My focus now is almost exclusively on mitten knittin' (Yes it means knitting mittens) sRy!

Here is Kaetlyn with some mittens she won for some very excellent knife bootin'

That's a cute photo. Did you see the one of Kaetlyn with a kitty cat?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYoojXKBban/?hl=en&taken-by=kaetkiss
:luv17:

Also, Kaetlyn liked my Tweet!
https://twitter.com/kevinVsmith/status/912013329916456960
:hap85:

Do you knit mittens? I used to have one of those plastic pot holder looms when I was a kid, but that doesn't count.

 

[siberia82]

This is my 1080p fancam of the Senior Ladies medal ceremony: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61tvcp

 

[beki]

I thought Cinderella was juniorish, but Mai's new program has a lot of potential. She can't help having a young-looking face. Instead of going against type like Kaetlyn, she is showing the soft and gentle essence of her skating. Yes, she'll need to generate a bit more drama to get to the very top, but she also didn't hit here. I hope I'll see that exquisite dress stay.

I don't quite get Kaetlyn's take on Black Swan yet. Ashley definitely understood the seductive, manipulative diva character. I don't know if the ending choreography with the spread eagles and the double axel is exciting and virtuosic enough.