2018 Four Continents Ladies FS

[andromache]

The difference in scoring between Europeans and 4CCs is embarrassing.

Sure, Alina has more transitions than Mai or Kaori, but Mai and Kaori have better skating skills. I'd rate them all pretty equal in terms of their performance/choreo/interpretation - none of the three are really amazing yet in terms of musicality/maturity/emotional commitment and connection, but they could be. Mai's maturity, IMO, is as weak as it was last season. She just has a fairly juniorish appearance in terms of her performances. Kaori and Alina have plenty of time to develop further as artists. Not sure why Kaori isn't getting the same boosted PCS as Alina - the two would be excellent rivals for one another internationally.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Has Kailani made changes to her FS since Nebelhorn besides the costume? I remember loving it then, but I here I was a bit lukewarm about it and I don't know why. [emoji848]

Also, has she been upgrading her tech content? Everything seemed rougher than usual, so I was wondering if she was attempting more difficult elements? Fingers crossed that everything comes together for the Olympics. She's got such great presence on the ice.

 

[tjb]

Mihara is definitely better than Zagitova on the skating skills aspect, and I'd wager Sakamoto, too. I do think Sakamoto is still a little juniorish, and I for one am not calling her excellent, and am certainly not comparing her to Zagitova.

And seriously? They are really not the "epitome" of juniorish skating. I'm not saying that just because "they are not Russian".

You know who are?

Juniors.

there is even no comparison with mihara and sakamoto and a top juniors ladies. i saw a 12 yo girls that looked more mature and sophisticated on the ice than those two.
just skating around from element to element, doing nothing but crossovers is an indication of superior skating skills, i guess. especially if you not representing russia. it also helps people to praise your empty programs as "free of laboured unecessary movements"

 

[MiRé]

 

[yume]

Kaori is getting the push now that Mai and Wakaba should have been getting earlier in the season.

Yep.

 

[OS]

LOL, Taiwanese *is* a language. As I said above, it is something different from Mandarin.

And as I said above, my hunch is that the announcer interpreted into Mandarin (as opposed to Taiwanese, which is what Sai Bon's post said).

---

:agree:

uh... unless you are one of those who claim American is not really speaking English, then you are probably right.

Taiwan speaks Chinese Mandarin as the formal broadcasting standard language and the national curriculum. The closest thing to a native language you are thinking of is probably 閩南話 (Minnan Hua) which is similar to Hokkien but are actually originally Fujian in China, I would be surprised to find any Taiwanese actually call Minan hua as Taiwan hua. IMHO, there's no such thing. There is various version of this dialect spoken in Singapore and Malaysia with their localized flavour. There's also the rare Hakaa dialect used in the region 客家話 *guest language* is the dialect of nomads of Chinese people, who travels and trades all over S.Asia. But all these dialects aside, the formal writing system of them all is still deeply rooted in the classic Chinese writing language.

Taiwan upholds Chinese Traditional (Classics) vs the Chinese simplified version in China, due to the cultural revolution - break down of the political/social elites, dumbing down for 'political control and revolution'. China is one of the remaining 4 ancient cultures really left intact today, survived a lot, lost a lot, but its cultural influence is hugely felt throughout the entire Asia region today. Even Japan, Korea's formal writing still follow the traditional (classics) Chinese character writing set, that is championed by Taiwan (which actually makes Taiwan culturally - the legitimate torchbearer of the classical Chinese culture and language. )

I hope the skaters get to enjoy it with the little time they have there. Congrats Kaori. Hope you enjoy Din Tai Fung

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I never said anything about Russian or European skaters. Nor did I criticize them. I pointed out that European skaters benefit from bloc voting more than Asian skaters. We’re recognizing that Russia, Eastern Europe, and French judges collude as a bloc. Naturally, skaters of talent will benefit from this bloc. If North America had skaters of any talent or consistency, you’d see similar collusion help from Germany more evident, but alas Osmond wants to do her best to screw up constantly so nobody can prop her up.

Seriously, like that massive overscoring very much European - even French! - James/Cipres got all season, especially when on Russian "bloc" ground.
Or very much European Deniss and his massive PCS over-scoring he gets every event!

PS: This is sarcasm. Just making sure.

 

[curious]

PCS scoring is completely in outer space realm these days. Even Mao and Yuna at their best were hard pressed to get 63-64. Nowadays, hunched posture, skating through the music and doing moves for the sake of doing them gets 75. I seriously don’t know what to expect any more as the ISU guide just don’t seem to be making sense relative to the PCS scores. Don’t get me wrong, I like how Zagi is focused and fearless and that Zhenya is full of X factor personality and CaroK has the best basic SS. But.....that is still not valid reasons for crazy component scoring.

Blame the Japanese fed for not doing more to help their women skaters win.

 

[SnowWhite]

Satoko got the potential OBM punishement any chance they get (look at what happened to Wakaba and Mai's PCS in general despite consistency), they are pushing for Russia sweep ladies 123 to make up for well.... you figure it out

Carolina Kostner is Russian?

 

[MiRé]

Blame the Japanese fed for not doing more to help their women skaters win.

You do realize that is the exact problem of this sport? Feds doing the "work" :noshake:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Wow...it only takes a few pot shots to ruin an entire thread.


Can someone tell me why Zijun Li wasn’t here? She’s still competing right?

 

[OS]

Carolina Kostner is Russian?

She is their fairy God mother
She is the upholder of European PCS rights. The higher it goes up, the Russians will go up.

Wow...it only takes a few pot shots to ruin an entire thread.


Can someone tell me why Zijun Li wasn’t here? She’s still competing right?

Sad story.. i dare not to ask. Read her fan thread. The last thing i hear was she is starting her own Lizijun rink in China. Not sure if she will make the Chinese team, although I sincerely hope so.

 

[ancientpeas]

there is even no comparison with mihara and sakamoto and a top juniors ladies. i saw a 12 yo girls that looked more mature and sophisticated on the ice than those two.
just skating around from element to element, doing nothing but crossovers is an indication of superior skating skills, i guess. especially if you not representing russia. it also helps people to praise your empty programs as "free of laboured unecessary movements"

You have a right to this opinion if you want to have it of course.
However, saying that other posters feel that way because skaters are from Russia assumes much about the amount of nationalism you think we harbour. Words are often mirrors.

I am Canadian (see flag). I think Evgenia or Alina would be very worthy OGMs (I prefer Evgenia personally). I just want to see good skating and I don't care who they are or where they come from. (But I admit I have a soft spot for skaters from small feds and places where skating is not well known).

Most of the people who post here are such big fans of skating in general that they don't look at a skater and say "Oh she's Japanese I must love her and think she is better than everyone else." Or the reverse if the skater is Russian.

 

[shine]

There is a Taiwanese language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Hokkien Mandarin was imposed as the official language under Chiang Kai-Shek's rule and subsequent martial law. The Taiwanese language was forbidden in schools and in official business until the 1980s.

Taiwanese is not a real thing whether or not the author of that Wikipedia article likes it. It’s called the Min dialect like someone has pointed out already. The spoken Min dialect in Taiwan is only slightly different than the Min dialect spoken in the Fujian province (where it originated from) in China or by the Hokkien (Fujian) Chinese people in parts of Singapore, Malaysia and other South Eastern Asian countries, due to generations of geographical seperation (think of British English vs American English). There may also be differences in the usage of popular slangs in these regions for the same reason, but it’s all essentially the same language. There’s a recent movement in Taiwan in search of a “Taiwanese identify” separate from the the island’s Chinese origin, and referring to this particular dialect as “Taiwanese” as opposed to the “Min dialect” (which is what it was common referred to up until 20 or so years ago) has naturally become an integral part of the movement. But the arbitrary naming of it really doesn’t change the fact that it IS basically the Min dialect.

 

[shiroKJ]

I don't see what is wrong with ice coverage's intial comment. The dialects can be so far removed from each other, they're practically another language. Similar example, Taishanese and Cantonese. Taishanese is so different tone wise that a majority of people who speak cantonese cannot understand what the other person is saying unless they have background knowledge of it.

Do you say to someone "Oh you know Taishanese?" or do you say "Oh, you know Taishan dialect of Cantonese Chinese?"

 

[chairmanmao]

there is even no comparison with mihara and sakamoto and a top juniors ladies. i saw a 12 yo girls that looked more mature and sophisticated on the ice than those two.
just skating around from element to element, doing nothing but crossovers is an indication of superior skating skills, i guess. especially if you not representing russia. it also helps people to praise your empty programs as "free of laboured unecessary movements"

I agree Mihara's performance was rather juniorish. Just skating through the elements. She did way better last year truth be told. I guess not being in the Olympic team must have wilted her confidence and her composure. Sakamoto on the other hand is still a junior skater. For those complaining why she is not getting Zagitova level PCS even though they have roughly the same juniorish style you have to remember the girl has been putting up 80+ TES programs entire season and embarassing her competitors. The judges love her. I don't expect you guys to understand that. As for Miyahara, the fewer words said the better but I do understand why people might overlook her puny UR jumps.

 

[frallik]

Judging by the :dev3:4CC results and discussing only Japanese girls means the :handw:funeral of US/Canada women's single skating... Am i correct? Russian hackers?

 

[OS]

I don't see what is wrong with ice coverage's intial comment. The dialects can be so far removed from each other, they're practically another language. Similar example, Taishanese and Cantonese. Taishanese is so different tone wise that a majority of people who speak Cantonese cannot understand what the other person is saying unless they have background knowledge of it.


Do you say to someone "Oh you know Taishanese?" or do you say "Oh, you know Taishan dialect of Cantonese Chinese?"

It is nothing personal, just a friendly correction about sharing knowledge. It shouldn't be political, but let's call a spade a spade.

Do people in Hongkong speak Cantonese or Hongkongnese? In any case what the interviewer said in the stadium is indeed Chinese Mandarin. I mean go and find me a text book offer translation lessons between Japanese and Taiwanese.

Relabelling, white labelling, white washing heritage and cultural history are just plain silly. Speak American, Speak Australian, Speak New Zealand is still English. Singlish is still English. Scottish accent is still English. Unless they suddenly start to speak Gaelic in Scotland, their current language is still English.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Judging by the :dev3:4CC results and discussing only Japanese girls means the :handw:funeral of US/Canada women's single skating... Am i correct? Russian hackers?

The top American and Canadian women didn’t compete...it’s too exhausting for them with the Olympics so close.

 

[Rissa]

I agree Mihara's performance was rather juniorish. Just skating through the elements. She did way better last year truth be told. I guess not being in the Olympic team must have wilted her confidence and her composure. Sakamoto on the other hand is still a junior skater. For those complaining why she is not getting Zagitova level PCS even though they have roughly the same juniorish style you have to remember the girl has been putting up 80+ TES programs entire season and embarassing her competitors. The judges love her. I don't expect you guys to understand that. As for Miyahara, the fewer words said the better but I do understand why people might overlook her puny UR jumps.

I'm afraid it'll take greater powers of persuasion and enlightment than you might possibly have to convince us that PCS should be affected by TES.

PCS aside, personally, I'm finding Sakamoto's programs, far more charming and enjoyable to watch than Zagitova's in-your-face Swan Lakes.