2018 Worlds Mens Short Program

[Barb]

Is this the first time Mexico made the FP at senior worlds or any senior ISU championships (Counting the Olympics).

Well, 4cc is isu champs and probably some qualified to LP but I think it is the first time for Worlds (men) :gclap:

 

[cathlen]

Not impossible. Misha arguably can get to the 3rd place, and Dima has well within his reach the 10th place.

Yeah, I'm counting on it, but sadly Dima is in early group. I hope he won't be screwed by judges...

 

[MaiKatze]

Kolyada's 3Lz looked like a popped Quad Lutz, it was so high, there was another rotation in there. Ah, if he just can put it all together more consistently. For now, I think he'll likely podium. Good for him and his confidence.

 

[jenaj]

Srsly, it makes my eyes bleed when I look how Visent or Nathan 'glide'. Chen has improved since last year, but he isn't Yuzu or even Kolyada. He isn't OC or defending 2 time world champion. I don't understand why judges treat him as if he is both world champ and OC.

Why should OC and WC get special treatment?

 

[Barb]

Vincent is underscored in pcs too, I mean, Kolyada had better interpretation to music? no way.

 

[jenaj]

I don't understand how anyone can tell from the camera angle whether Boyang's 4T was rotated or under rotated.

Jackie Wong, who there, called it UR before the judges did.

 

[Ares]

Well yeah, but he should pop to 2T instead to 3T and then i will consider him as Big factor. He needs to think better, i mean he could be 5 place ahead (and in top 10) after this SP

Logical fallacy here Aliev had 4T solo planned, but solo 2T would not bring any points either because any solo double non-axel jump is deemed invalid. But maybe he should start his SP from solo 4T so he can always adjust if he pops quadruple into triple.


Unless you think that Aliev is a psychic with a unique talent for precognition

 

[Hayashi]

I'm a little new on this foro, so I want to thank for all the comments, especially about technical issues. I don't have enough knowledge of ice skating yet so your comments are really helpful.
I used the russian link from here and I saw the last two groups so thank you again
I'm a little sad for Shoma, he is my favourite, but under the circumstance was the best result. Was hard to see him crying at the end

 

[Off My Rocker]

A few thoughts.
For me, the PERFORMANCES of this event? Geez, did I already mention I kinda liked Keegan? :hap57: Others were Bychenko, Vasiljevs and Ge. Fentz impressed me, too – this is the best I’ve seen him skate. And Majorov – it was great to see him skate so well after being denied by Sweden’s OC the opportunity to compete in Korea.

However, the caveat being that as I live in a time zone where the earlier groups are smack in the middle of my coma-like snooze, I have to go back to watch groups 1 through 3. I always enjoy Brendan and Julian and will have to make sure I take in Donovan. Thanks Kutien for making this possible!

Kolyada – YES! I enjoyed his SP and the elegance of his skating, even if I got a bit of a ‘clinical’ feeling in its presentation today. (Maybe ‘thinking’ with caution?) His body line and extension are exquisite. :luv17: I’m glad he gave the 4Lz a miss. I would have him leading.

Chen – yes, overall it was well done, but his jumps were really tight today (I preferred Kolyada). There’s also a choreographic leg jerk he repeats that unfortunately reminds me of a dog raising its leg to a fire hydrant or perhaps kicking off something the dog left that he stepped in (sorry). That aside, I think his presentation and attention to music have improved vastly this year.

Aliev – I got interrupted during his program so was shocked with his low score after seeing what appeared to be a perfect 4Lz/3T combo. Watching it again (thanks again Kutien)…ahh, too bad about tripling the 4T! His distinctive style (pure Russian elegance) is perfect for Masquerade Waltz. I’ll hope for Dmitri to repeat his FP from Euros.

Jin – there is a perkiness to his skating that I really like. Jumps not perfect, but he was my #3 (after Mikhail & Nathan).

Uno – I normally marvel at his skating, but he was off tonight...I'm actually surprised he's as high as 5[SUP]th[/SUP].

Zhou – jumps were very good. I look forward in the years ahead to see the development of the rest of his program content. Maybe if I saw him skate live, I’d see Vincent as better than he comes across (to me) on a computer screen.

Nguyen – how sad to skate to Over the Rainbow and finish 25[SUP]th[/SUP]. I can’t even express my disappointment in his loss of jumps and basic skating skills. I’m not sure if he’s injured? Mentally has lost confidence? Or just hasn't grown into his increased height. I can’t help but think that Canada should have sent Reynolds or Nadeau instead. (Or Monsieur Elladj!!!) I don’t think Nam is done; he could regain his old spark but am of the belief that he should very quickly return to the Cricket Club and Brian Orser. Tracey Wainman is probably an excellent coach, just not for Nam IMHO.

 

[el henry]

I’m sorry, when I read that “I can’t with Misha, he has one quad”
I’m like:

When? When did Misha land a quad? :eeking:This is wonderful news!:agree:

There is *one* Misha, and it ain’t Kolyada. If you expect me to understand your posts, initials might help

 

[Shedi0806]

I'm a little new on this foro, so I want to thank for all the comments, especially about technical issues. I don't have enough knowledge of ice skating yet so your comments are really helpful.
I used the russian link from here and I saw the last two groups so thank you again
I'm a little sad for Shoma, he is my favourite, but under the circumstance was the best result. Was hard to see him crying at the end

I would also like to thank you for all the comments. I have always liked figure skating but I have learned so much thanks to this forum.

 

[Metis]

Kolyada's 3Lz looked like a popped Quad Lutz, it was so high, there was another rotation in there. Ah, if he just can put it all together more consistently. For now, I think he'll likely podium. Good for him and his confidence.

I don’t think it was a pop. His submitted program did say 3Lz, and he was 2/15 on the 4Lz going into the OWG. He’s not stupid. The seemingly excess height is probably the result of training the 4Lz, however, which isn’t uncommon when a skater does a triple in a jump they’re training as a quad. But I don’t think he was attempting a 4Lz or even contemplating one.

Kolyada is a skater I’ve grown to really appreciate, perhaps because he has to fight his layouts and his programmes rather than being held back by terrible technique or lack of skating skill, fundamentals, etc. And when he’s allowed to just skate, I find him absolutely mesmerizing; he has so much more raw talent than his free skate suggests — and his comments about skating make me think he does deeply care about the sport, which has made me like and respect him all the more. He’s an artist, not a technician, but he’s playing the role of a technician with gorgeous, deep edges that he almost never gets to showcase because that 4Lz is always inserted into his layout and it’s all downhill from there.

I suspect Kolyada knows better than anyone he isn’t consistent at landing the 4Lz in competition and forced it out of his Worlds layout (or maybe someone finally wised up, who knows?). But part of why I don’t believe he ever intended a 4Lz rather than a triple? There was never a look of defeat or a glimmer of doubt in his eyes during that performance. If he were going for the 4Lz... I think that jump defeats him before he takes to the air.

 

[cruzceleste]

Nguyen – how sad to skate to Over the Rainbow and finish 25[SUP]th[/SUP]. I can’t even express my disappointment in his loss of jumps and basic skating skills. I’m not sure if he’s injured? Mentally has lost confidence? Or just hasn't grown into his increased height. I can’t help but think that Canada should have sent Reynolds or Nadeau instead. (Or Monsieur Elladj!!!) I don’t think Nam is done; he could regain his old spark but am of the belief that he should very quickly return to the Cricket Club and Brian Orser. Tracey Wainman is probably an excellent coach, just not for Nam IMHO.

Why did he leave?

Robert Burke is listed as his coach on wikipedia...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Where in the rules does it say that the number/difficulty of quads in a program should affect PCS?

In general, a program is much harder to execute if you put quads in there (assuming you don't strip out all the choreo/transitions in between, which I don't think is an issue with Chen's).

Transitions: in/out of quads are harder compared to transitions in and out of triples. Of course, this is up for debate, because sometimes dumbing down to a triple allows a skater to add more transitions to up the quantity. Difficulty is open to interpretation too as some transitions are harder to execute, and some transitions are harder because of having to execute them prior to more difficult elements. There's some ambiguity there.

Skating skills (balance/precision of foot placement) is harder and you need stronger technique to execute quads versus triples. It's harder to exhibit balance/control/glide on more difficult choreography, it's harder to do on more difficult jumps.

Performance: quads are also more exciting to see than triples which benefits the Performance/projection aspect (an audience is more involved if you're attempting and executing riskier elements).

Choreography/Composition: a quad, being harder, provides a greater musical highlight compared to a triple, thus creating a more exciting/interesting mood. It is also much harder to execute the rest of a program's choreography well when you have greater difficulty of jumps as it tires you out more.

Interpretation: when a quad is landed on a musical highlight it is more impactful, which can lend itself to more impactful expression. A program is simply more impressive with difficult elements, and brings out the character more compared to a skater doing easy jumps that people have been doing for 20 years.

Of course, that's not to say that a program without quads can't get 10's (or close).... but that should be reserved only for skaters who still show excellent level of overall skating and strong programs - like Ge, Rippon or Brown, IMO.

If Nathan did the same program but singled every jump but skated everything else the same, should he get the same PCS as if he did two quads and an axel?

44 PCS isn't that crazy for Chan, especially in comparison to Uno and Kolyada who only had 1 quad (the easiest one) each and scored above 45 (Uno with an error on the second easiest 3-3, even). Harder technical content makes it harder to do everything else in the program well.

 

[Grin]

Jackie Wong, who there, called it UR before the judges did.

Oh, they should not, but hey, we don't live in a prefect world. My point is simple, it is even more outrageous when skaters without titles and skills needed for high PCS are scored as if they are true artists on the ice.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don’t think it was a pop. His submitted program did say 3Lz, and he was 2/15 on the 4Lz going into the OWG. He’s not stupid. The seemingly excess height is probably the result of training the 4Lz, however, which isn’t uncommon when a skater does a triple in a jump they’re training as a quad. But I don’t think he was attempting a 4Lz or even contemplating one.

Kolyada is a skater I’ve grown to really appreciate, perhaps because he has to fight his layouts and his programmes rather than being held back by terrible technique or lack of skating skill, fundamentals, etc. And when he’s allowed to just skate, I find him absolutely mesmerizing; he has so much more raw talent than his free skate suggests — and his comments about skating make me think he does deeply care about the sport, which has made me like and respect him all the more. He’s an artist, not a technician, but he’s playing the role of a technician with gorgeous, deep edges that he almost never gets to showcase because that 4Lz is always inserted into his layout and it’s all downhill from there.

I suspect Kolyada knows better than anyone he isn’t consistent at landing the 4Lz in competition and forced it out of his Worlds layout (or maybe someone finally wised up, who knows?). But part of why I don’t believe he ever intended a 4Lz rather than a triple? There was never a look of defeat or a glimmer of doubt in his eyes during that performance. If he were going for the 4Lz... I think that jump defeats him before he takes to the air.

Totally agreed. When he doesn't worry about the 4Z, it all looks much more relaxed and effortless. Not 45 level PCS effortless, but still it shows off his skating ability more.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

Maybe Shoma could go for a 3loop combination in the FS. The toe loop is obviously not his favorite jump. (I hate it too. Us folks who have naturally open hips pick sideways and the toe pick tends to slip).

 

[capturingpolar]

Boyang - always lowballed

Shame Judges Shame!

 

[chuckm]

TPTB in Russian leaned hard on Misha to learn the 4Z, I guess to make him competitive with the US and Japanese skaters and Jin. He's been trying hard to learn the jump, but his successes have been few and having to attempt the jump at every competition seemed to have drained his confidence. He has looked so down at his last few events. For the first time in a long time, today, he actually seemed to enjoy skating. IMO, he should forget about the 4Z and do what works for him best.

 

[MIM]

Excellent skating from Kolyada and Dima and Jin honorable mention to Zhou:luv17:
Kolyada , Dima, and Jin are so musical, they can place the jumps at the right beat of the music and play with the music during the step sequence!! Just admirable skaters!!!

I found Nathan tight and Shoma slow.. they are wonderful skaters, but today other skaters shine brighter.

didnt watch Paul but just glanced over protocols. Paul Fentz landed 4T3T!!?? good for him!! I heard he was underprepared for the Olympics. But clearly he is prepared for the WC. Go FOR IT!!!