2018 Worlds Mens Short Program

[Vilord]

The tech panel has access to video replays that you or I can't see, and they are trained for this. They're not always right, but it's ridiculous to automatically dismiss them when they don't give the scores we expect (read: want) them to give. I thought Vincent's jumps were fine. You didn't. The tech panel thought they were clean, and have been marking skaters for URs so far in this segment. They must have considered his quads sufficiently rotated even if others didn't.

Note that if a jump is to be considered under rotated by the tech panel it must me a quater or more left. A jump that has 10-5minutes left is in my opinion still UR but isnt called due to the current rules

 

[icybear]

If they called Boyang quad toe then they should definitely called Zhou quad Lutz and Chen quad flip which were WAY more obviously under rotated. Disgusting favourism and bias towards American skaters. I think if Zhou lands 5 under rotated quads he'll be given gold.:dev2:

 

[twirlingblades]

If they called Boyang quad toe then they should definitely called Zhou quad Lutz and Chen quad flip which were WAY more obviously under rotated. Disgusting favourism and bias towards American skaters. I think if Zhou lands 5 under rotated quads he'll be given gold.:dev2:

Chen’s quad flip was clean, I really don’t know what y’all are talking about. Pause the video right before the landing- it’s well within a 4th.

 

[Miss Ice]

You thought Vincent's jumps were clean? When compared to Boyang's, especially?

I haven't seen Boyang , only the top 3. From a quick look there was maybe a quarter max UR for Vincent. It was questionable but not blatant UR like usual, TBH. But please do post slow mo's to clear this up.

I would agree with you, except Vincent also had a stumble (in his footwork, yes, but I still consider it as detrimental to the program). Keeping Vincent under 40 PCS was correct, but Kolyada should have not been above 45. I also think Kolyada has more finesse, so he should be a bit higher in Interpretation, but not by a whole lot. For a one quad program, I thought it was really generous. Kolyada's good, but not a just-one-quad-but-over-100-points kind of good, IMO.

I did notice that - the footwork stumble. But I still think he and Kolyada should've been closer in PCS. Agreed, 100+ is too much for that program.

 

[chopinskate]

Although if Uno and Chen and Hanyu and Fernandez also deliver, it's not a reflection of Jin being hosed so much as him simply not measuring up to seasoned/polished/technically stronger skaters.

Really?

 

[Danny T]

Chen's 4F and Vincent's jumps are really really not clean. Chen *might* be given the benefit of the doubt (which would've apply to Boyang too if he has the right passport I suppose), but Vincent is just too blatant. Compare them to Boyang's 4T just makes them even less rotated. If anything, Boyang's 3T in the combo looks more problematic and closer to Chen's 4F quality.

 

[lavender]

Of the top guys Zhou has the worst pcs. However I do like his long much better.

It's the opposite for Kolyada...very nice short but that long... What is with these good short programs from the top RUS pair and men singles. IMO they don't have the long programs to me to back up they nice short programs...just saying...


Never seen Nathan or Boyang in person but I think Boyang's skating is smoother...I noticed the difference this year.

 

[bubblecherry]

I think Vincent was judged and scored appropriately. I like Boyang much more than Vincent but that was not a strong program from him. I'm not sure where I'd place him, but being within a point (whether it was above or below) Vincent would've felt correct to me, it just happened to be below. Boyang being scrutinized for a jump where he almost hit the boards is not Vincent's fault, he shouldn't be the punching bag.

 

[Mathman]

This is the new men's figure skating. If you don't do a 3Lz+3T and 4F in the short, and 5 quads in the free, you are just wasting everyone's time. :yes:

 

[friedbanana]

What if Keegan wins bronze

 

[gmyers]

Kolyada PCS is ridiculous a bit

What’s the problem? A point too high in each or just one category?

 

[Elucidus]

I slowed down Jin's 4T as much as I could and after looking at it about 10 times on x.25 speed, I don't think it should have gotten a UR call.

http://i101.fastpic.ru/big/2018/0322/7f/8b4719de317f37387f8d7718ce664f7f.jpg
No, the call was legit.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Really?

Yes, really. To clarify (IMO):

Hanyu/Fernandez = more seasoned than Jin
Hanyu/Fernandez/Uno/Chen = more polished/better overall skaters than Jin
Hanyu/Uno/Chen = technically stronger Jin

Compare Jin's TES personal bests... Fernandez at his best is about on par with Jin at his best, and, at their best, Uno/Chen/Hanyu are cumulatively stronger than Jin:

Hanyu:
SP - 64.14
FS - 126.12
Total: 190.28

Fernandez:
SP - 60.79
FS - 118.05
Total: 178.84

Chen:
SP: 59.58
FS: 127.63
Total: 187.21

Uno:
SP: 59.17
FS: 122.87
Total: 182.04

Jin:
SP: 60.27
FS: 118.94
Total: 179.21

Point being: if Jin loses to these guys - or doesn't have a shot to win - it's because these guys (who most would agree are artistically superior to Jin) are also bringing the technical. Hanyu/Uno are ahead of Jin artistically and technically overall. In the case of Fernandez, he's more technically on par with Jin but artistically superior. In the case of Chen, he's artistically the most on par with Jin (compared to Uno/Hanyu/Fernandez) but has a greater technical advantage. So it's not just dismissing everything as the judges never giving Jin a chance to win, but him legit not quite measuring up (yet) to the other guys' scoring potentials.

 

[chopinskate]

Yes, really. To clarify (IMO):

Hanyu/Fernandez = more seasoned than Jin
Hanyu/Fernandez/Uno/Chen = more polished/better overall skaters than Jin
Hanyu/Uno/Chen = technically stronger Jin

Compare Jin's TES personal bests... Fernandez at his best is about on par with Jin at his best, and, at their best, Uno/Chen/Hanyu are cumulatively stronger than Jin:

Hanyu:
SP - 64.14
FS - 126.12
Total: 190.28

Fernandez:
SP - 60.79
FS - 118.05
Total: 178.84

Chen:
SP: 59.58
FS: 127.63
Total: 187.21

Uno:
SP: 59.17
FS: 122.87
Total: 182.04

Jin:
SP: 60.27
FS: 118.94
Total: 179.21

Point being: if Jin loses to these guys - or doesn't have a shot to win - it's because these guys (who most would agree are artistically superior to Jin) are also bringing the technical. Hanyu/Uno are ahead of Jin artistically and technically overall. In the case of Fernandez, he's more technically on par with Jin but artistically superior. In the case of Chen, he's artistically the most on par with Jin (compared to Uno/Hanyu/Fernandez) but has a greater technical advantage. So it's not just dismissing everything as the judges never giving Jin a chance to win, but him legit not quite measuring up (yet) to the other guys' scoring potentials.

Getting better TES =/= better technicians than Jin. Not Uno, not Chen. I agree Jin isn't up there on the artistic side, but his technique, at least on jumps, is second only to Hanyu's.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What if Keegan wins bronze

While that would be a wonderful surprise, I highly doubt that will happen. He just doesn't have the firepower or the PCS clout. A top 5 finish though would be an incredible accomplishment.

 

[#1Kerryfan]

I'm so happy for Nathan. After the Olympics, it's really nice to see this. And Vincent in third! Can't remember the last time there were two American men on the podium... *crosses fingers*

Now, time to go watch!

 

[karne]

I will just enjoy every last moment Max gives to us. Of course, he's set up for a grandstand finish. The Classic Max Fightback is on the cards.

One day more...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Getting better TES =/= better technicians than Jin. Not Uno, not Chen. I agree Jin isn't up there on the artistic side, but his technique, at least on jumps, is second only to Hanyu's.

Good technique differs good reliable execution. A lot of Jin's jumps are very measured and don't look effortless, even if the takeoff is clean.... the technique on his landing leaves something to be desired, IMO. He doesn't have a lot of runout or extension on his landings which can be a bit scratchy sometimes (like his 4T here). It's why his success rate and GOE on many of his jumps are not as strong as some of the other guys. Consistency is important too - Kolyada has arguably the best 4Z, but it means nothing if you've only ever landed 2 attempts out of like 15 or whatever the number is.

As far as technique on jumps - it might be cleaner, but it doesn't matter if Chen is able to do 5 types of quads, and Uno 4 types (and Jin "only" 3), and more consistently. I think we all know that if Jin gets it together and goes clean, he CAN win, but he will still need the other guys to not perform at their best or dumb down their planned content. Sometimes your competition is simply stronger.

 

[voolfee]

Chen’s quad flip was clean, I really don’t know what y’all are talking about. Pause the video right before the landing- it’s well within a 4th.

What? Really?!! If Boyang's 4T was UR, Chen's 4F should be downgraded.

 

[voolfee]

Kolyada PCS is ridiculous a bit

Yes, it's ridiculous that Kolyada with this amazing skate got less PCS than Shoma.