2019-20 GP and JGP Final: Day 3

lariko

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What a day!

I took my mom to Kelowna this fall, where she got exposed to Hanyu, and I am afraid it was too much, because I got a phone call after the man’s free. So, between extolling Chen’s virtues and trying to get out of having to swim for Torino to rearrange the world to mom’s liking right away... I really enjoyed the day three.

Hanyu was beautiful and soulful, Chen was perfect in every way, demonstrating why bronze was the only medal left on the table. I am happy for Aymoz, he absolutely earned it, but I was also happy to see Samarin land that combo again. Except, of course, I though Uno in France was the saddest it gets, but Aliev delivered. Aww...

With junior men, i was a bit disappointed for Mozalev’s steady progression to be upset in the very end, but Sato’s skate was out of this world. The other guys were pretty darn good too, so was very fun to watch. :)

And the ladies... omg, I knew it was going to be epic, but it went above and beyond all expected epicness. Mind blown. And, yes, I loved Alina since the day I saw her in the 2018 Olympics, and I wish she had not had hard time, but it was still my favourite event out of the whole Grand Prix Final. I :yahoo: and, yes, Trusova came third, but she is my star — my mom favours Scherbakova and Valieva.

I immediately looked up where the next year’s GPF is, because I thought that would be the event i’d love to see live next year. Alas, Beijing is too out of the way for me, but I totally would go one year!

Overall, I love the current generation of the athletes, and I think I prefer the JGP/GP to the second part of the season competitions in terms of how cool it is to see so many skaters and how much good pressure it apply on me as someone who ‘follows’ it.

Huge appreciation to Ted Barton for excellent commentary and to Turin for hosting a lovely finale.

I am a fan :)
 

Colonel Green

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France is looking at a generational opportunity in the 2022 team event, the way things have been shaping up so far, between Aymoz, James/Cipres and Papadakis/Cizeron.

Really, if they had a solid lady they could compete with the Russians for gold.
 

Jeanie19

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France is looking at a generational opportunity in the 2022 team event, the way things have been shaping up so far, between Aymoz, James/Cipres and Papadakis/Cizeron.

Really, if they had a solid lady they could compete with the Russians for gold.

Well it's still 2 years away, one of the girls could rise to the occasion.
 

Interspectator

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Well, I think I've been whining enough about my lost reviews from yesterday, but I'll try and write them up again. A bit shorter perhaps.

Men's
What an event! Although I was saddened about Dmitri Aliev's FS (he started off really nicely with a 4 lutz but then it all fell apart), that was the only real negative of the whole event. Boyang Jin wasn't perfect (had a fall) but did manage to show off his much improved artistic side. Alexander Samarin also had reasons to rejoice, even if his outing wasn't good enough. I like his lines though. Kevin!!!!!!! That was just a great outing for this wonderful skater, and his reaction in the Kiss and Cry really made my day. I love that kind of thing, and I was in tears myself. Yuzu!!!!! Quad lutz and quad loop done well. Not the best skate (missing his usually flawless triple axel) but wonderful to watch and still awfully good. Glad to see there was support in the K&C today, although Yuzu handled it all quite well the day before when through no fault of anyone, except a passport thief outside the sport, he had to sit on his own. What shall I say about Nathan? What a skate! He remains lightfooted as ever, and of course the step sequence at the end is superb and so much fun.

Junior Pairs
Missed out on that one, I'm sorry to say. I'll go and watch the replay.

Junior men
Didn't see all of this event, but was totally blown away by Shun Sato's FS. Talking about reactions in the K&C, his as well as his coach's were priceless.

Junior Ice Dance
Missed most of that too, but did manage to watch the numbers one and two. Very, very close indeed. I suppose people will disagree on who was or should have been first and second, but I for one quite like to see a couple from Georgia winning.

Ice Dance
A bit odd. I'm not really a fan of Victoria and Nikita, but their low scores surprised me. Good for Piper and Paul though after their not so good RD a day earlier. A lovely Free Dance to make up for it. I happen to be a fan of Alexandra and Ivan, and I was pleased to see them move up somewhat in the rankings (although they didn't get a high score either). Madison and Zachary have improved on their FD since Skate Canada, but didn't manage to move me. The other Madison with Evan however, very much did. I love that FD, and the exude such joy in performing it. Gabriella and Guillaume bounced back from their not so good outing in the RD, and had another just insanely good FD. Now, get that great RD back to the level it was at NHK, and I'll be really happy.

Ladies
Never my favourite discipline, but I was happy to watch it. I liked Bradie's FS, much, much better than at Warsaw Cup (where she had a bit of a meltdown) and skated with enjoyment. Rika also was on top of it all, even if she fell with her 4 Salchow - she tried it! Alexandra was stunning with her 4F and other quad jumps. I got a bit overlutzed (a word I made up) with Anna's skate (there were 4 of them - 2 3s and 2 4s) but she had a good showing - the judges thought so too. Good try for the 4F. I really enjoyed watching Alena - I usually do - and was very happy for her that she won the GPF. I have to make a remark about the falls on the quads: somehow these girls manage to fall without losing the flow of the programmes. That's good news. I had hoped for Alina to do a good job, but she had a rough skate. I really felt sorry for her.

That's it for now!

Love to see it. Thanks for sharing. :agree:
 

Bcash

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Loved the American junior Ice Dance team. I thought their skating and movement quality more mature than the Georgian team.

Brilliant competition in the Mens’ FS. Happy for Aymoz. And lots of respect for Hanyu and Chen. I was surprised to see Hanyu so physically depleted toward the end of the program. Isn’t this tech content what he’s been training for the past couple years?
 

Batsuchan

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France is looking at a generational opportunity in the 2022 team event, the way things have been shaping up so far, between Aymoz, James/Cipres and Papadakis/Cizeron.

Really, if they had a solid lady they could compete with the Russians for gold.

Maybe they could convince one (or two) of the Russian ladies to switch countries...? :biggrin: :devil:
 

randomfan

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Sorry for the insanely long post! Here is my last installment of my ladies GP re-scoring series. The brackets contain placements and how much the score derives from the original.
*Sasha and Anna had the exact same FS score (I swear it wasn’t intentional) but Anna won the tiebreaker due to higher PCS.

1. Alena Kostornaia 240.31 (-7.28)
SP: 48.87+35.00 = 83.87 (1) (-1.58)
Overall a beautiful performance from Alena! Nothing else to say, other than that she should keep working on her projection (but it’s getting better). Interestingly, this score turned out to be just 0.01 higher than what I gave her at NHK.
FS: 87.24+69.20 = 156.44 (1) (-5.70)
Except for the first jump, technical elements were +3s and +4s, which just shows how amazing her overall skating is. But the SS, IN, and especially composition were not as good as what was displayed in the SP (the latter being a criticism on the program itself). While she does a great job presenting the upbeat part at the end, projection is again an issue for the first 3/4 of the program.

2. Anna Shcherbakova 229.38 (-11.54)
SP: 43.66+34.00 = 77.66 (2) (-0.61)
I really like this program. And that 3Lz-3Lo was probably the best one I’ve seen from her. Gave her slightly lower marks for the step sequence and final spin, but slightly higher for the jumps, so the TES evens out (original was 43.72).
FS: 88.72+64.00-1 = 151.72 (2*) (-10.93)
The SP is excellent but...the FS just feels lazy. Other than the choreo sequence in the beginning, there’s nothing too special choreo-wise in the entire program (particularly the Firebird Section). And also contrary to the SP, the 3Lz-3Lo here shouldn’t have even been given +GOE, since the 3Lz was clearly landed on two feet, which calls for an automatic GOE deduction (for more on this read the judging discussion thread).

3. Alexandra Trusova 220.81 (-12.37)
SP: 39.09+31.00-1 = 69.09 (4) (-2.36)
Elements were pretty solid all-around. She has impressive transitions (though with questionable quality on some), but the other four PCS categories still need a lot of work. At least the program’s much better than the long.
FS: 93.52+59.20-1 = 151.72 (3*) (-10.01)
All the non-jump GOEs were too generous IMO. As for PCS, she ended up with identical ones to what I gave her at both SC and COR, so I’ll just leave this here from the COR thread:
The PCS though...I think this program is severely lacking in just about every PCS aspect (except TR somewhat). Her skating skills were rather weak, she showed virtually no emotion in her expression or movements whatsoever, and there were only rare moments of her choreo or elements matching the music. (Sorry if I anger anyone with the low PCS, but that's just how I see it)

4. Rika Kihira 209.44 (-7.03)
SP: 36.43+33.60-1 = 69.03 (5) (-1.68)
Slightly lower GOEs for the spins explains the TES difference. It was clear that she didn’t have quite the same energy level as in the past, which affected both the technical and components sides. But 33.60 is by no means a bad score.
FS: 73.41+68.00-1 = 140.41 (4) (-5.35)
I marked the second 3A UR as well – it was close and the judges gave benefit of the doubt, but to me it looked deserving of a <. Might be the odd one out here, but I don’t think she was underscored in PCS at all. Like with the SP, the energy level and conviction was just not there this time, and she skated slower than usual too.

5. Bradie Tennell 206.91 (-5.27)
SP: 35.35+32.80 = 68.15 (6) (-4.05)
The 3Lz-3T< initially looked like a 3Lz<-3T<< to me. After the review, I gave her the benefit of the doubt on the 3Lz, but the 3T really did seem 1/2 short. The << alone was what put her behind Rika and Sasha. The program itself is nice but I still don’t find it too striking choreo-wise.
FS: 71.56+67.20 = 138.76 (5) (-1.22)
I felt that the judges were spot-on with the GOEs and calls here. Components-wise this wasn’t her best, but I still really enjoyed the performance. Her SS is mainly what set her back in PCS.

6. Alina Zagitova 193.61 (-12.22)
SP: 42.77+33.80 = 76.57 (3) (-3.03)
This is the highest score I’ve ever given Alina. The program is still not my cup of tea, but the SS, choreography and commitment level are miles better than what she showed in previous seasons. All the elements were nicely done too, though the step sequence was a bit overscored.
FS: 56.04+60.40-1 = 116.44 (6) (-8.59)
The step sequence and some spins were not done that well, contrary to what the judges’ GOEs suggested. The 8.39 PCS gap is not the biggest I’ve given to a skater, but still a huge discrepancy nonetheless. She was skating ahead of the music for most of the time, which resulted in an evident mismatch between her choreo and what the music called for; thus PE, CO, and IN were much lower. It was heartbreaking to see her struggle so much, but that still shouldn’t justify the judges holding up her PCS.

As you can see, my PCS standards are a lot…different from others. Even for a performance I praised or found impressive, the actual PCS probably ended up lower anyways. Quoting myself from before: "If I undermarked your fave, then I'm sorry and please don't attack me...this is just for fun and I have my own opinion just as you have yours :confused2:”
 

SkatingFan9

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As you can see, my PCS standards are a lot…different from others. Even for a performance I praised or found impressive, the actual PCS probably ended up lower anyways. Quoting myself from before: "If I undermarked your fave, then I'm sorry and please don't attack me...this is just for fun and I have my own opinion just as you have yours :confused2:”

Why would anyone attack you? I doubt anyone even takes any of your “re-scoring“ seriously. :confused2:
 

el henry

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Why would anyone attack you? I doubt anyone even takes any of your “re-scoring“ seriously. :confused2:

I’m sure you didn’t mean that to sound dismissive of Randomfan’s post; in my experience, many posters enjoy rescoring, reading about others scoring, and many fans take it very seriously indeed.

Ladies skaters have many fierce advocates;)
 

randomfan

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Why would anyone attack you? I doubt anyone even takes any of your “re-scoring“ seriously. :confused2:

Yup, nobody should take it seriously. But as we see often on this forum, a disagreement in opinion among FS fans can end up becoming unnecessary heated debates. I recognize that my comments may seem harsh to some people, so I just want to avoid as much conflict as possible. :)
 

Noxchild

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Randomfan's rescorings have always been thoughtfully written and interesting to read. There's no need to be hostile.
 

SkatingFan9

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Perhaps I was misunderstood. All I meant was that there should never be a reason to attack randomfan, as I doubt anyone would take their re-scoring attempts seriously to begin with. These scores have no bearing on reality, after all...it’s pure fantasy. It is just a fun exercise based on personal opinion on how certain skaters should be scored, nothing more. Anyone can do that, and not everyone will agree. That’s not a reason to attack someone. Ultimately, the only scores that matter are from the judges who are paid to do this for a living.
 

randomfan

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Perhaps I was misunderstood. All I meant was that there should never be a reason to attack randomfan, as I doubt anyone would take their re-scoring attempts seriously to begin with. These scores have no bearing on reality, after all...it’s pure fantasy. It is just a fun exercise based on personal opinion on how certain skaters should be scored, nothing more. Anyone can do that, and not everyone will agree. Ultimately, the only scores that matter are from the judges who are paid to do this for a living.

Exactly - I completely agree with your whole post. Sorry for misinterpreting your words.
 

Colonel Green

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Maybe they could convince one (or two) of the Russian ladies to switch countries...? :biggrin: :devil:
One already has!
We haven't seen Kuzmenko in a bit, I don't think. My understanding is that she was having either growth- or injury-related issues.

Russia agreed to release Kuzmenko before the 2018-19 season, when James/Cipres had their breakout and Aymoz started to show signs of real potential that we're now seeing fully ripen. I can't imagine Russia would ever agree to let France poach somebody else now.
 

tafattsbarn

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Loved the American junior Ice Dance team. I thought their skating and movement quality more mature than the Georgian team.

Brilliant competition in the Mens’ FS. Happy for Aymoz. And lots of respect for Hanyu and Chen. I was surprised to see Hanyu so physically depleted toward the end of the program. Isn’t this tech content what he’s been training for the past couple years?

I think he said in an interview that he only practiced this layout once.
 

lariko

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Yup, nobody should take it seriously. But as we see often on this forum, a disagreement in opinion among FS fans can end up becoming unnecessary heated debates. I recognize that my comments may seem harsh to some people, so I just want to avoid as much conflict as possible. :)

I was just wondering what/who was the 100% benchmark for you, but I wasn’t sure if it were appropriate to ask.
 

zounger

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Probably already has mentioned before, but I haven't been much in the forum and competition threads these days. Just a general observation watching the event live. I think the crowd was a bit conservative with their reactions to the top single/couples (junior/senior) USA skaters. Some of them were worthy of a standing ovation, that didn't come.

I would like to give separate congratulations to Madison Chock/Evan Bates. I like this music (for personal reasons) and to watch such a performance from them was a treat. And she is very beautiful indeed. The snake plushy that was thrown was cute and resembled her hair perfectly.
 

lariko

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Hi lariko! Hmmm I’m not sure what you mean by 100% benchmark in this case?

What is your idealized version of a perfect score on a component. It is not really even towards you, I was actually just wondering if they have official textbook animations somewhere (not real skaters) that they demo the desired execution of each graded element to use as a benchmark. Most people seem to use real skaters as examples instead. Is that what you use instead when grading by comparing to someone or is there other way you (or the judges) envision the perfectly executed stuff?
 
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