2020-21 Japanese Ladies' Figure Skating

cohkaix

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I really hope Satoko can compete at nationals but it seems that Canada is (which is admirable) being very strict about traveling.
I think there are already cases from NHK this time: ice dancers Kana, Daisukei, Rikako, and Cho were all training overseas before the competition. None of them were required to have additional quarantine after coming back to Japan. There could be special rules applying to athletes (especially Olympic athlete) in Japan to waive the quarantine requirement.
 

Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
The whole point IS the scoring margin. This was just a warmup for Nationals. The judges sent a clear message about who they prefer and by how much. This will undoubtedly have a big mental effect on the skaters. And that is a big part of skating.
I honestly don’t think this will have that big of a mental effect on the skaters. This whole season in general is so weird for these skaters, so I think that any opportunity they have to compete, they won’t take for granted. Wakaba knows she made a ton of mistakes and I have no doubt that she will go back and work on them (same with other skaters who made technical mistakes).
 

Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
I think there are already cases from NHK this time: ice dancers Kana, Daisukei, Rikako, and Cho were all training overseas before the competition. None of them were required to have additional quarantine after coming back to Japan. There could be special rules applying to athletes (especially Olympic athlete) in Japan to waive the quarantine requirement.
I’m not familiar with where these guys train, do they train in Canada or somewhere else?
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Also, looking at the protocol where Wakaba got a q, the GOE’s from each individual judge were kind of generous because according to the rule book a q on a jump is a -2 GOE which only one judge gave.

Wrong. A "q" does not mean the *final* GOE must be -2. A q means "-2" is factored in when calculating the final GOE alongside all other positive and negative attributes.
In real time, Waka's 3A received something between +1 and +2 (factored) GOE, which means most judges likely really just deducted -2 from their original GOE - *exactly* as they should have.
(Unless you want to argue now there were zero positive qualities about Wakaba's 3A, like height, ice coverage or flow).
 

cohkaix

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I’m not familiar with where these guys train, do they train in Canada or somewhere else?
Yes, Rikako and Cho train in Montreal, whereas Kana and Dai train in Florida. There's post interview and Rikako said they'd like to express their gratitude to the federation for arranging the hotel and rink for them to practice. I think none of their coaches was here. And in the other report, they plan to stay in Japan up until the Nationals.
 

readernick

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Dec 5, 2015
9
I'm surprised that people are barely talking about Satoko. Just like Rika, she got her GP event cancelled and is still stuck outside of Japan. I guess it could be since there's been practice videos of Rika while Satoko's been completely silent. Speaking of which, does anyone know how Satoko is able to even travel to Japan for Nationals (she's on the list of entries)? Is this considered essential travel?
I don't think the issue is going back to Japan. She is Japanese citizen. It could be difficult for her to return to Canada after nationals, Since it is likely her only chance to compete this year, she will need to need to decide if it is worth the risk.

I imagine the reason most people aren't talking about Satoko is that she doesn't appear to be that competitive technically compared with the other Japanese ladies at the moment. Japanese federation loves her, but they still call her URs so with so many strong jumpers who also perform well in the Japanese field, it is hard to see her on the top three unless she has solved the UR problem.
 
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Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
(Unless you want to argue now there were zero positive qualities about Wakaba's 3A, like height, ice coverage or flow)
Ummm, absolutely not, her axel is one of the highest I’ve ever seen. There was nothing I said that indicated anything negative except for how her jump wasn’t completely rotated, the one in the warm up was gorgeous though.
 
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Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
Wrong. A "q" does not mean the *final* GOE must be -2. A q means "-2" is factored in when calculating the final GOE alongside all other positive and negative attributes.
In real time, Waka's 3A received something between +1 and +2 (factored) GOE, which means most judges likely really just deducted -2 from their original GOE - *exactly* as they should have.
Also, thanks for clarifying the q. I honestly don’t understand why it was added but...
 

Li'Kitsu

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Dec 29, 2011
Ummm, absolutely not her axel is one of the highest I’ve ever seen. There was nothing I said that indicated anything negative except for how she wasn’t completely rotated, the one in the warm up was gorgeous though.

You said her GOE was generous, so yeah. Saying she should have gotten -2 GOE from all judges means her 3A outside the q call was 0 GOE aka not deserving of any positive GOE, no good height ect. It's just math and rules dude :shrug:
 

Skatefan15

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You said her GOE was generous, so yeah. Saying she should have gotten -2 GOE from all judges means her 3A outside the q call was 0 GOE aka not deserving of any positive GOE, no good height ect. It's just math and rules dude :shrug:
I just misunderstood what it said in the rule book, so of course that’s not really what I think now that I know. I thought it was generous since I thought that jumps with q had to be -2, but now I know that they don’t have to be. So(y)
 

cohkaix

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I don't see where does the debate of 'conspiracy' go either...and I agree with one of the posts earlier that the only obvious conspiracy in the NHK Cup 20' was that JSF was trying their best to use the chance to promote their Jr. National champions...(But I have to admit that Rino's packaging for this season is done quite well, very typical of Higuchi Sensei; plus, she does have the potential among the current Jr. skaters.)
 

readernick

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Dec 5, 2015
I don't see where does the debate of 'conspiracy' go either...and I agree with one of the posts earlier that the only obvious conspiracy in the NHK Cup 20' was that JSF was trying their best to use the chance to promote their Jr. National champions...(But I have to admit that Rino's packaging for this season is done quite well, very typical of Higuchi Sensei; plus, she does have the potential among the current Jr. skaters.)
I actually think Rino deserved those scores. She is a beautiful skater (Although, a lot of other girls also should have gotten better GOE and PCS) Besides the generally strict scoring, which I like on principle but I believe hurts the Japanese ladies internationally, my only real issues are with Wakaba's PCS in the SP. (fall or no that program was the best), Kaori not getting edge calls (it is still an obvious e) which would have reduced her overall score by 4/5 points, and the judges giving almost all the ladies (excepting Kaori and Wakaba) the same PCS scores in the SP. Young did not deserve to tie Marin in PCS with that SP.
 

Joekaz

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Feb 13, 2018
I honestly don’t think this will have that big of a mental effect on the skaters. This whole season in general is so weird for these skaters, so I think that any opportunity they have to compete, they won’t take for granted. Wakaba knows she made a ton of mistakes and I have no doubt that she will go back and work on them (same with other skaters who made technical mistakes).
I mostly agree, but it depends if Wakaba is disheartened, as it appeared by her look as Sakamoto's score was announced, or if she gets mad and fights. This season Kaori decided to just perfect what she is capable of and not worry about 3A or 4T, but instead rely on high GOE and PCS. Wakaba is trying to perfect the 3A to outscore Kaori and possibly challenge Kihira. That score told Wakaba that her plan wont work unless she can be clean as Sakamoto and hit 3 3As. On the one hand you can say that isn't fair. On the other hand you can say that since the goal isnt to just beat Sakamoto, but also challenge Kihira, then that would be necessary anyway. So hopefully Wakaba looks at it like that and gets even more determined.
 

Joekaz

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Feb 13, 2018
I actually think Rino deserved those scores. She is a beautiful skater (Although, a lot of other girls also should have gotten better GOE and PCS) Besides the generally strict scoring, which I like on principle but I believe hurts the Japanese ladies internationally, my only real issues are with Wakaba's PCS in the SP. (fall or no that program was the best), Kaori not getting edge calls (it is still an obvious e) which would have reduced her overall score by 4/5 points, and the judges giving almost all the ladies (excepting Kaori and Wakaba) the same PCS scores in the SP. Young did not deserve to tie Marin in PCS with that SP.
I agree about Rino. She has beautiful edges and just floats on the ice. Skaters should be judged on what they do that day only. Junior or not, senority and reputation scoring is garbage.
 

Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
I mostly agree, but it depends if Wakaba is disheartened, as it appeared by her look as Sakamoto's score was announced, or if she gets mad and fights. This season Kaori decided to just perfect what she is capable of and not worry about 3A or 4T, but instead rely on high GOE and PCS. Wakaba is trying to perfect the 3A to outscore Kaori and possibly challenge Kihira. That score told Wakaba that her plan wont work unless she can be clean as Sakamoto and hit 3 3As. On the one hand you can say that isn't fair. On the other hand you can say that since the goal isnt to just beat Sakamoto, but also challenge Kihira, then that would be necessary anyway. So hopefully Wakaba looks at it like that and gets even more determined.
She’s defnitely a fighter, so I hope she does even better at nationals (also really hoping she makes the Olympics). She did look a little sad when Kaori’s score was announced but I think it might have been just more disappointment in the mistakes she made, because if Wakaba was clean she most likely would’ve (or at least should’ve) won. I’m also happy Wakaba tried the axel in the short and the long, especially the short because you can get a really big point gap between you and the others when you land it, like Rika and Aliona K (along with landing the other triples).
 

Joekaz

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Feb 13, 2018
She’s defnitely a fighter, so I hope she does even better at nationals (also really hoping she makes the Olympics). She did look a little sad when Kaori’s score was announced but I think it might have been just more disappointment in the mistakes she made, because if Wakaba was clean she most likely would’ve (or at least should’ve) won. I’m also happy Wakaba tried the axel in the short and the long, especially the short because you can get a really big point gap between you and the others when you land it, like Rika and Aliona K (along with landing the other triples).
I get the feeling from Wakaba that she has been looking at events as more stepping stones to improve than actually worrying about winning them. Thats why I think losing to Kaori wasnt a big deal to her, but the scoring definitely was. Probably because of her Olympic season experience, I think she doesn't want to peak early, but try to peak at Nats. That is a risky strategy especially since Kaori is taking the opposite approach.
 

Skatefan15

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I get the feeling from Wakaba that she has been looking at events as more stepping stones to improve than actually worrying about winning them. Thats why I think losing to Kaori wasnt a big deal to her, but the scoring definitely was. Probably because of her Olympic season experience, I think she doesn't want to peak early, but try to peak at Nats. That is a risky strategy especially since Kaori is taking the opposite approach.
I think Wakaba is on a pretty good trajectory right now for the Olympics. The 18-19 season wasn’t very good (due to injury), 19-20 was way better and qualified for worlds (which was then cancelled...stupid corona) and now there’s this really weird season but luckily her attempts on the 3A get better each time. But yeah I agree in terms of the season strategy with peaking too early which unfortunately hurt her last time. At least this time there are 3 spots!
 

Joekaz

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Feb 13, 2018
Wrong. A "q" does not mean the *final* GOE must be -2. A q means "-2" is factored in when calculating the final GOE alongside all other positive and negative attributes.
In real time, Waka's 3A received something between +1 and +2 (factored) GOE, which means most judges likely really just deducted -2 from their original GOE - *exactly* as they should have.
(Unless you want to argue now there were zero positive qualities about Wakaba's 3A, like height, ice coverage or flow).
So since she ended up with a -0.16 GOE, does that mean if it was judged clean then she would have gotten a 1.84 GOE on a beautiful 3A?
 

readernick

Medalist
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Dec 5, 2015
So since she ended up with a -0.16 GOE, does that mean if it was judged clean then she would have gotten a 1.84 GOE on a beautiful 3A?
Yes, but to be fair. Young only just got positive GOE on a fully rotated 3A. I believe the GOE was +.40. So, by Japanese standards +1.84 is good GOE.
 
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