Is it will or the other girls skated better? She lost to Zagitova in Cup of China by less than 2 points when Zagitova beat everyone. Was that lack of will? And Wakaba has beaten everyone of those skaters in different competitions except Kihira. Where was their will on those nights? Nobody is arguing that Wakaba hasnt under achieved for her talent, but that is part of sports sometime.
2020-21 Japanese Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter AshWagsFan
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It would be impossible to argue she has done BETTER. Lol
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- Mar 8, 2015
Haha, fair enough.
Why did Zagitova win? She didn't have any jumps in her arsenal that Higuchi didn't also have.
Nobody is going to win every time. But true talent will eventually find a way to the top at least once against other similar talent. Even Rika Hongo won a Grand Prix event.
Maybe she will one day, but thusfar it is a fact that she has not, despite many opportunities to do so.
Well, I find this comparison is not very fair tbh, you can't simply write off Wakaba's worlds silver medal when you try to compare their achievements.
Many people including the BBC announcers didn't think Zagitova won, but thats skating. The thing was she skated well enough to win, which is the point. Skaters cant control the judges. And she would have won against any other skater, but not all GPs are created equal. She didn't choke or have mental issues, she just lost. Thats what we are talking about.
I halso think that hate is a too strong word for Wakaba. Judges and fed are harsher with Mai. Some said that judges rewarded cleaness but she was clean and still finished 35 points below Kaori.
I think it's the fact that Kaori is showered with good scores no matter her previous showings while Wakaba doesn't get the same treatment, that makes some think that fed hate her.
Kaori just have better reputation. Winning 4cc after getting olys spot got her fed's love and the season after was solid despite not getting major intl medals. About doing well under pressure, she could medal at gpf, 4cc and worlds but always popped or fell and ended in 4th and 5th place. The season after was close to disaster. But fed still gave her love by giving her high pcs at nats and 4CC spot instead of Yuhana (who didn't do that bad compared to her in gp series. She got two 5th places while Kaori got two 4th). This season she's doing better and fed is rewarding her with record +18 GOE and almost 74 pcs.
Wakaba isn't hated. Kaori is just scored better than anyone.
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I don't understand the outcry here. Wakaba double two jumps, her program involves a lot preparing for jumps. It seems to me they will ad some more transition later when she feels more confident. She is wonderful and all, but Kaori made the free of her life, program is excellently choreographed, quality of jumps is really high with very nice transitions. She was basically flawless. Speed and flow was unmatched (by anyone this year so far). I would even argue that her (f)lutz was a true lutz according to the current judging habits. At the moment of picking its still very slightly outside. Very similar to for example Zagitovas lutzes and many other eteris. Its no way a blatant flutz alla zhenya anymore. congratulations to kaori to a wonderful skate.
Nobody is arguing that Kaori won easily. The problem was the margin was far too big. Yes she had a much better LP than anyone, but 153? No way. She had a 6 point lead after the SP where Wakaba was better than her except for a fall on a 3A where she got the full 8 pt base value, so it only cost her a couple of points. PCS is supposed to be more a reflection of artistic/presentation, not a rubber stamp of your tech score. Kaori has definite limitations there. Off of the scale everyone else was judged, Kaori should have been in the 215+ range, not 230.
4CC is often weaker than regular GP and one reason she went to Olympics was fed already liked her. Her 2nd at Nats wasn't a automatic selection and many thought Wakaba should have went because she had a better season and qualified for GPF.
She had two perfectly clean programs. So why not go up with the PCS. These days girls with falls gets 9ish pcs. Her matrix performance was really outstanding, the coreo and composition is rather unique with some very cool not so often seen well matched with the music elements. No one can deny her ss and speed and flow. She she has some excellent transition in it. Yes, all in all I think she deserved her pcs. Maybe a little bit to high. Count in the crowed reaction so even that can be forgiven. Wakaby lp is really nothing special in terms of choreo. It really lacks in transitions. She is telegrahing the easiest jumps. Look at the preparation she needs for her salchow, and than she doubles it.I know its her nemesis but its simply not state of the art anymore. Of course she doesn't get credit for it in the pcs. Her ss are very similar to kaori, but she wasn't clean and had an empty programm where she didn't especially show her ss. So even there I understand the gap in pcs.
However I agree with you that they should have been closer after the sp.
AND if you look at the potential of both, I think wakabas has more, but she never really skated up to her potential. Therefore it is just hypothetical.
Well, it was debatable. 50/50. And fed went with the public's choice. Just see the reaction of the stadium when her name was announced (make me think about the cold reaction that Wakaba would have gotten).
The lesson was that you can bomb in your first competitions but have to well in the lasts, especially nats.
The only thing that was infuriating is that people were comparing Wakaba getting the spot with the 2006 selection. The situation was totally different. Miki getting the spot was just shameful.
I agree the public had alot to do with that and that came from the way Fuji TV covered it in my opinion. With Hanyu out they were all over Sakamoto.
A World silver medal is worth more than all these titles you mentioned here
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- Jun 6, 2019
I'd put senior Grand Prix final winner with similar prestige to a worlds silver medal .A World silver medal is worth more than all these titles you mentioned here
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- Mar 20, 2019
I know it sucks for others with the judging but PCS rightly or wrongly has always been a reflection of the WHOLE program taken together. Kaori was literally Osmond/Zagitova/Medvedeva Olympics level of flawlessness, and I celebrate it.
Not at all. She is doing great this year, which is what I expected. She is very motivated from last year and is well managed. I thought even though she had a bad year she was only a little off. Its just that her high speed style magnifies it when she is off a little. The overscoring issue didnt bother me for this event, it was an easy win for her. It is an issue because it signals the way things will be judged at Nats, and forces the other contenders to take more risks than they might normally, or feel they have to be too perfect.True,We are not that far awayI just had the feeling here that kaoris outstanding skate is not appreciate enough or even downplayed.
Exactly, the whole program means that artisitic/presentation shortcomings are not ignored, regardless of technical performance.
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