2020-21 Japanese Men, Pairs And Ice Dance

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Just watched Yuma Kagiyama's and Shun Sato's performances at Regionals. Yuma was almost foot perfect. Shun fell in his 3A, but landed a great 4T3T. These two young men are incredibly talented. I think Yuma could make the Olympic team next year. As for Shun, he is a year younger and needs a bit more polishing but I think he might become the first skater to land a 5T or a 4A. He often finishes rotation in the air and has a bit of extra time before landing his 4T and his 3A. They are both incredibly impressive.
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
I agree Yuma and Shun are incredibly talented technically, but I would like to see both developing their performance/presentation skills a bit more - they are both still fairly juniorish in that respect. It worries me that Yuma especially has been receiving a PCS boost just because of his technical content, I hope it doesn't discourage him from working on his presentation skills since he's a bit robotic IMO.

Yuma's skate from today: https://youtu.be/67MeOTbiu9s
Shun's skate: https://youtu.be/IED-V2f7WA4

Kazuki Tomono also did great at his regionals today, jumping 4T2T 4S 3A. Sadly, he was dinged again and only scored 86.47, sigh...
I will share the link of his performance once a video is available.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
I agree Yuma and Shun are incredibly talented technically, but I would like to see both developing their performance/presentation skills a bit more - they are both still fairly juniorish in that respect. It worries me that Yuma especially has been receiving a PCS boost just because of his technical content, I hope it doesn't discourage him from working on his presentation skills since he's a bit robotic IMO.

Yuma's skate from today: https://youtu.be/67MeOTbiu9s
Shun's skate: https://youtu.be/IED-V2f7WA4

Kazuki Tomono also did great at his regionals today, jumping 4T2T 4S 3A. Sadly, he was dinged again and only scored 86.47, sigh...
I will share the link of his performance once a video is available.
I am also looking forward to seeing Kazuki's SP. I agree that both Shun and Yuma need to improve their PE/IN. However, I think Yuma is quite a musical skater. He just doesn't express well with his face. He does seem to be a federation favorite. His smooth skating probably hides some of his weaknesses. Shun needs to work on his spins, musicality and interpretation. But, I don't think he gets inflated PCS .
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
I am also looking forward to seeing Kazuki's SP. I agree that both Shun and Yuma need to improve their PE/IN. However, I think Yuma is quite a musical skater. He just doesn't express well with his face. He does seem to be a federation favorite. His smooth skating probably hides some of his weaknesses. Shun needs to work on his spins, musicality and interpretation. But, I don't think he gets inflated PCS .
Yeah, I don't think Shun's PCS are inflated, if anything they're often a bit harsh compared to Yuma. Both of them are going for broke in their layouts, though, so I do worry they're focusing too much on BV instead of developing their presentation skills.

You are spot on about Yuma's fantastic SS hiding his weaknesses, I thought it was the case especially with last year's programmes. I must say I didn't like his SP music at all this season, I don't think it actually matches him or the choreo. Luckily for him at this point he's a clear fed fave and can benefit from reputation score.

As for Kazuki, he said he'll be increasing his BV a bit by including an extra quad in the FS, but apart from that he's trying to work on his SS and spins so he can become a more complete and polished skater. Because of that, he's not thinking of including the 4lo in his layout in principle. I think his strategy is smart and hopefully it'll pay off by improving his consistency and PCS - today's performance was definitely a step in this direction :pray:

ETA: Kazuki's performance!
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Yuma-Shun showdown is interesting.

I'm surprised by Yuma's progress on jumps. The boy didn't have 3A at 14yo. At 15yo had to get his 3A consistent. At 16yo he got a very stable and well executed 4T and now at 17yo he has a superb 4S. He didn't look like someone who could learn and jump quads easily. He doesn't rely on massive pre-rotation like his idol. His father must have worked on foundations of his jumping technique during a long time. He has the advantage to be a fed favorite so he will always get huge pcs (in juniors he was already getting senior pcs) so big scores. Unless an injury or unexpected bombing the boy will repeat on nats podium, not necessary at the third place.

Shun on the other hand is a precocious jumper.Yoloing 3As at 13yo and jumping quads from 14yo. I agree about him jumping a 5T. The boy always seems to pop. I though he popped his 4T. He has to work on consistency though, more than even working on PE/IN. He needs big TES, because even if improves fed won't give him good PCS. His pcs are always harsh in national competitions. It prevented him to get a JWC spot because he finished less than 1pt behind Tatsuya Tsuboi at junior nats. He should have won imo. At least in intl comps he usually gets higher pcs.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Yeah, I don't think Shun's PCS are inflated, if anything they're often a bit harsh compared to Yuma. Both of them are going for broke in their layouts, though, so I do worry they're focusing too much on BV instead of developing their presentation skills.

You are spot on about Yuma's fantastic SS hiding his weaknesses, I thought it was the case especially with last year's programmes. I must say I didn't like his SP music at all this season, I don't think it actually matches him or the choreo. Luckily for him at this point he's a clear fed fave and can benefit from reputation score.

As for Kazuki, he said he'll be increasing his BV a bit by including an extra quad in the FS, but apart from that he's trying to work on his SS and spins so he can become a more complete and polished skater. Because of that, he's not thinking of including the 4lo in his layout in principle. I think his strategy is smart and hopefully it'll pay off by improving his consistency and PCS - today's performance was definitely a step in this direction :pray:

ETA: Kazuki's performance!
I think that is a good strategy for Kazuki. He is a good performer, but his SS ( they aren't bad but they haven't been up to the Japanese standards) have held him back I like his program and he has what Shun/ Yuma lack a commitment to performance. I think Japan is full of talented young men. I wish them all the best!
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Yuma-Shun showdown is interesting.

I'm surprised by Yuma's progress on jumps. The boy didn't have 3A at 14yo. At 15yo had to get his 3A consistent. At 16yo he got a very stable and well executed 4T and now at 17yo he has a superb 4S. He didn't look like someone who could learn and jump quads easily. He doesn't rely on massive pre-rotation like his idol. His father must have worked on foundations of his jumping technique during a long time. He has the advantage to be a fed favorite so he will always get huge pcs (in juniors he was already getting senior pcs) so big scores. Unless an injury or unexpected bombing the boy will repeat on nats podium, not necessary at the third place.

Shun on the other hand is a precocious jumper.Yoloing 3As at 13yo and jumping quads from 14yo. I agree about him jumping a 5T. The boy always seems to pop. I though he popped his 4T. He has to work on consistency though, more than even working on PE/IN. He needs big TES, because even if improves fed won't give him good PCS. His pcs are always harsh in national competitions. It prevented him to get a JWC spot because he finished less than 1pt behind Tatsuya Tsuboi at junior nats. He should have won imo. At least in intl comps he usually gets higher pcs.
Why doesn't Japanese fed like Shun? He needs to work in PE, spins, consistency and lines but his SS are good. The Japanese federation usually likes skaters with good SS. (as do I)
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Why doesn't Japanese fed like Shun? He needs to work in PE, spins, consistency and lines but his SS are good. The Japanese federation usually likes skaters with good SS. (as do I)
I guess JSF doesn't have the same opinion. Or for them his weaknesses are too strong... Trying to find rational reasons and not get into politics.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
I guess JSF doesn't have the same opinion. Or for them his weaknesses are too strong... Trying to find rational reasons and not get into politics.
Maybe, actually looking at the protocols he actually does get pretty good (for Japan.. no home inflation in domestic competitions ) marks in SS. So, I guess maybe it is other weaknesses holding him back. Anyway, he is still a kid. He has time to improve consistency and PCS.
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
It seems to me that JSF likes to support 1-2 skaters to the max instead of actually supporting a pool of skaters, like Russia does for their men.

I don't agree with this strategy and it saddens me to see skaters like Kazuki and Shun being lowballed often. Not that Yuma doesn't deserve support but others deserve it, too.

Yuma is definitely poised to medal at Nats and make the Olympic team, and JSF obviously wants this to happen HOWEVER he did flop last season at JGPF and JWC when he was the clear favourite to win, so... Who knows, ice is slippery. It'll be definitely interesting to watch the Japanese men in the run-up to Beijing.
 

haribobo

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Kanto Regionals Results
2020 関東選手権大会

Senior Men SP
1. Yuma Kagiyama Seisa Kokusai Yokohama 98.46 Q
2. Shun Sato Fuji Corporation 77.90 Q

Kinki Regionals Results

Senior Men SP
1. Kazuki Tomono Doshisha University 86.47 Q
2. Kazuki Kushida Kwansei Gakuin University 73.77 Q
3. Mitsuki Sumoto Kansai University 68.64 Q
4. Taichi Honda Kansai University 66.34 Q
5. Shoya Ichihashi Kansai University 48.51 Q
6. Sumi Moriguchi Kinoshita Academy 47.09 Q
7. Takeya Tsujimura Doshisha University 45.68 Q
8. Shinichi Yamada Kwansei Gakuin University 44.05 Q
9. Yuji Maekawa Osaka City University FSC 35.24 Q
 

YuBluByMe

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
As for Shun, he is a year younger and needs a bit more polishing but I think he might become the first skater to land a 5T or a 4A. He often finishes rotation in the air and has a bit of extra time before landing his 4T and his 3A. They are both incredibly impressive.
I believe it. The height on his 4T was utterly ridiculous. He must have really worked to control the landing on that thing or he wouldn’t be able to tack a 3T onto it.

Edit: Whoa! Sato got perfect marks on the 4T+3T. Deserved.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Maybe, actually looking at the protocols he actually does get pretty good (for Japan.. no home inflation in domestic competitions ) marks in SS. So, I guess maybe it is other weaknesses holding him back. Anyway, he is still a kid. He has time to improve consistency and PCS.
I guess. He was always at least 10 points behind most other juniors at senior nats. Sometimes even close to 20pts. Like with Koshiro who despite bombing, got 16 pcs more than Shun who delivered the 2nd best TES of the comp (2018-19 nats). The gap probably came from other components.

Yes he has time and his pcs are already rising a bit. He got respectable pcs at nats last season and wasn't too far behind Yuma (8 points in the free). Winning JGPF probably helped him.
 
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Dogo

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Wikipedia lists Nathan and Shoma as his idols. Also, I remember reading an olympic article comparing Sato looking up to Yuzuru with Kagiyama looking up to Nathan. Could also be the media fueling more Yuzuru/Nathan debate with his predecessors.. 🤔
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
Welp, today at Kanto and Kinki regionals once again Yuma did amazing while Shun and Kazuki honoured the 'chaotic Japanese men' tradition 😬

Yuma's skate: https://youtu.be/E2u7hF0hMeg
Shun's skate: https://youtu.be/p99biJgzmrA
Kazuki's skate: https://youtu.be/nL-dw4FoezQ

Yuma's now in a similar situation as Nathan: He is a fed fave because he's consistent, he is consistent because he knows he's a fed fave.
As for Shun and Kazuki, at this point I wonder whether they are both putting too much pressure on themselves because they want to compete with Yuma. I hope both of them manage to take a step back and learn a good lesson from today.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Welp, today at Kanto and Kinki regionals once again Yuma did amazing while Shun and Kazuki honoured the 'chaotic Japanese men' tradition 😬

Yuma's skate: https://youtu.be/E2u7hF0hMeg
Shun's skate: https://youtu.be/p99biJgzmrA
Kazuki's skate: https://youtu.be/nL-dw4FoezQ

Yuma's now in a similar situation as Nathan: He is a fed fave because he's consistent, he is consistent because he knows he's a fed fave.
As for Shun and Kazuki, at this point I wonder whether they are both putting too much pressure on themselves because they want to compete with Yuma. I hope both of them manage to take a step back and learn a good lesson from today.
Yuma is a very talented young man. He has great basic skating, tries to perform, and does appear to be becoming more consistent. I wish him nothing but the best. I believe that Kazuki will improve as the season goes on. I don't think he usually peaks early in the season, and his layout seems to be rational. Shun seems to be having difficulties with his lutzes. I wonder what is going on. I think the other mistakes only came after he was thrown off by the pops/ hard fall on the lutzes. I hope he fixes it.
 

milkgirl

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
I think, Shun should do a coach change, perhaps to Raf. He could help him to stabilize his nerves. In my opinion, Shun is a very talented skater, but he is often under immense pressure.
 
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