2020-21 US Ladies’ Figure Skating

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,121
Was there any report on Gracie's Jumps? I realize the scores are low but, did her programs have potential?
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
5,318
She scored about 51 in the SP and 85 in the LP I believe. But shortly after the videos and results were posted, they were taken down and reuploaded without her performances or scores. It’s really bizarre.

Did anyone watch Lindsay Thorngren, the 2020 Junior champ at the ISP Points Challenge? She has amazing consistency. She landed all of her jumps, including 2 3-3s, 1 being in the second half of the program. I’m a little worried about her jump technique since it looks like she might be prone to UR but she’s definitely flying under the radar and will be one to watch
Kate Finster and Balazs Nagy's SP was also removed from the Pairs video after a short time, so it isn't as if Gracie's being singled out for erasure! I did see Gracie's SP briefly, but the tape stopped and gapped and was terrible, and I never saw the jumps except the last two, that she (deliberately?) singled. F/N didn't submit a FS, but there wasn't anything wrong with the SP video, so who knows what happened.

So, which one is Lindsay Thorngren? I haven't watched all the programs yet. You have me intrigued. Oh, never mind, I can check the list for the order.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
5,318
I was probably primed by skylark's well-stated take on Mariah's LP, but whether I was or not, I LOVED it. The music cuts really worked to me to tell a story -- be it a romantic one, or one about personal striving and growth and milestones and your inner view of yourself vs being judged (so fitting for anyone competing in skating!). I was blown away. LOVE IT. If you find the music cuts jarring, please consider watching it again a time or two and really focus on what Mariah is presenting. It's a bold choice to use the music that way -- completely WORKS WORKS WORKS for me. I found it really moving and a true work of art -- and that's at such an early stage in the season! wow.
🥰😺🌈 Thank you! Good to feel I'm not the only one who saw what I did! (I looked for an "applause" smilie but haven't found it yet)

Shae-Lynne knew what she was doing. :)
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,667
I did see Gracie's SP briefly, but the tape stopped and gapped and was terrible, and I never saw the jumps except the last two, that she (deliberately?) singled.
I'm happy for Gracie that she is approaching her career with a healthier, more mature mindset. While I think she enjoys competing and loves to skate, it seems that she's lost the fire needed to get back to the top in US skating. I thought covid might have been an equalizer that might put someone like Gracie on par with skaters ahead of her since no one has been training, but it doesn't seem like she's made up any ground. I'd much prefer to see her fall attempting triples than popping jumps into singles or doubles, because at least that would show she's fighting.
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
Lindsay Thorngren competed at the Boston Open today and scored 64 (39 TES + 25 PCS). She's only 14 years old and already showcasing exemplary jumping consistency. Cannot wait to see how she'll mature and improve her overall quality on the ice. Fun fact of the day: Lindsay and Isabeau have been 1-2 on the podium, respectively, ever since Intermediate.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
5,318
I'm happy for Gracie that she is approaching her career with a healthier, more mature mindset. While I think she enjoys competing and loves to skate, it seems that she's lost the fire needed to get back to the top in US skating. I thought covid might have been an equalizer that might put someone like Gracie on par with skaters ahead of her since no one has been training, but it doesn't seem like she's made up any ground. I'd much prefer to see her fall attempting triples than popping jumps into singles or doubles, because at least that would show she's fighting.
Have you listened to Gracie's interview with Scott Hamilton from a few months ago? She talked about her standing ovation at 2020 nationals as a sort of overpowering experience. She said at first it didn't feel right because she hadn't done very well (Gracie's words, meaning the jumps I think), and then almost immediately she realized that what was happening was something much bigger than herself; people were inspired by her spirit. I see what you mean about preferring to see her fighting, but maybe she's finding other reasons to compete. I don't know, I'm just speculating.

ETA, correction: Now that I see this a day later, I think what Gracie said was that people were inspired by the human spirit.
 
Last edited:

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
1,635
Was there any report on Gracie's Jumps? I realize the scores are low but, did her programs have potential?
Actually she landed many jumps-in the first part of the program. The SP I couldn't make heads or tails of. But the free skate she landed at least 3 triples in the beginning of the program. Then she had to keep resting and would skate down the ice and do singles. Right now there just isn't the conditioning necessary to do a long program.
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
1,635
Was there any report on Gracie's Jumps? I realize the scores are low but, did her programs have potential?
But your question was about potential-and no. We have Bradie, Mariah, Audrey (maybe Ting and/or Hannah), Amber Glenn and Alysa Liu. There is zero chance Gracie might break into the top of the order. Gracie and Courtney could both compete in the Adult competitions though-sort of a 'Masters" for figure skating.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
2
Actually she landed many jumps-in the first part of the program. The SP I couldn't make heads or tails of. But the free skate she landed at least 3 triples in the beginning of the program. Then she had to keep resting and would skate down the ice and do singles. Right now there just isn't the conditioning necessary to do a long program.
Do you know what music she was skating to in sp and lp
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,667
But your question was about potential-and no. We have Bradie, Mariah, Audrey (maybe Ting and/or Hannah), Amber Glenn and Alysa Liu. There is zero chance Gracie might break into the top of the order. Gracie and Courtney could both compete in the Adult competitions though-sort of a 'Masters" for figure skating.

That's the thing, none of the women are skating in a vacuum. You have to be hungry to make it to the top, and a lot of these women are talented and able to perform well. However, wanting to perform well isn't enough; if you say you want to skate in the next Olympics, you need that competitive fire to want to win and beat the others because there will only be a few spots.
 

NAOTMAA

Medalist
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
1,335
That's the thing, none of the women are skating in a vacuum. You have to be hungry to make it to the top, and a lot of these women are talented and able to perform well. However, wanting to perform well isn't enough; if you say you want to skate in the next Olympics, you need that competitive fire to want to win and beat the others because there will only be a few spots.
In all honestly, unless injury or something else bad happens, I feel like the USFSA will set to Alysa, Bradie and Mariah to the Olympics no matter what. USFSA usually like to keep the world team and who they politik/promote consistent year to year and regardless of how brilliant Ting or any other girl is I can't see them breaking that trio. Remember the USFSA official who pretty much told Tara after the 98 nationals SP "relax you're on the team already." Tonya K. joking about the media and Campbell's soup. Remember that? Does anyone really think even the skate of a lifetime by Angela would have changed the Michelle, Sasha, Sarah trio in 2002? Really? I genuinely believe the team is set regardless of how much competition we might think there is.

Besides those three who else currently has a strong international record? Nobody else comes close to those three. And we saw what happened in 2014 and 2018 so we know they will bend backwards to get the team they already got in mind no matter what. It truly sucks for Ting, Hannah and the other girls but that's how it goes. The only one who can truly spoil it, in my opinion, is a sudden miraculous back to 2014 form Gracie (and everyone knows how unlikely that is).
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
1,635
In all honestly, unless injury or something else bad happens, I feel like the USFSA will set to Alysa, Bradie and Mariah to the Olympics no matter what. USFSA usually like to keep the world team and who they politik/promote consistent year to year and regardless of how brilliant Ting or any other girl is I can't see them breaking that trio. Remember the USFSA official who pretty much told Tara after the 98 nationals SP "relax you're on the team already." Tonya K. joking about the media and Campbell's soup. Remember that? Does anyone really think even the skate of a lifetime by Angela would have changed the Michelle, Sasha, Sarah trio in 2002? Really? I genuinely believe the team is set regardless of how much competition we might think there is.

Besides those three who else currently has a strong international record? Nobody else comes close to those three. And we saw what happened in 2014 and 2018 so we know they will bend backwards to get the team they already got in mind no matter what. It truly sucks for Ting, Hannah and the other girls but that's how it goes. The only one who can truly spoil it, in my opinion, is a sudden miraculous back to 2014 form Gracie (and everyone knows how unlikely that is).
The were rebroadcasting Junior Worlds-2018-not even the year Ting medaled-and the talent she possessed-wow. I have no clue if she is back to where she was, but if she is, (or if she can get there) I think she could be a spoiler. It is true though that the USFSA tends to send skaters with international reputations, although Ting has at least a junior reputation.
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
Figure skating is a slippery sport, anything can happen within the span of a year. As we saw time and time again, stars can burst onto the scene in a matter of a few months and make a name for themselves (Bradie during the Olympic season) or die unexpectedly. Ting and Hanna have not competed since the summer of last year and we do not know what condition they are in. However, both girls are immensely adored and have all the right ingredients to become household names; at this point, it's a matter of putting it all together. Ting won a Junior Worlds medal, fending off formidable rivals in doing so. Hanna became one of the highlights of the night after winning the Pewter medal at US Nationals, going on to finish in the Top 10 at Junior Worlds later that year. Both have stellar talents and I truly hope both can come back stronger than ever and push the US ladies even further.

On another note, US Junior Champion Lindsay Thorngren won the Senior Ladies title at the Boston Open, scoring 192 points in total. Thorngren executed two triple-triples, a myriad of other triples, and received Level 4's on all of her spins.

Coming this Tuesday (September 29th), the second round of the ISP Points Challenge will be made available on demand for the Junior ladies, men, and pairs.

Link --> https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/sports/2020/9/8/isp-points-challenge-competition-central.aspx
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,667
In all honestly, unless injury or something else bad happens, I feel like the USFSA will set to Alysa, Bradie and Mariah to the Olympics no matter what. USFSA usually like to keep the world team and who they politik/promote consistent year to year and regardless of how brilliant Ting or any other girl is I can't see them breaking that trio. Remember the USFSA official who pretty much told Tara after the 98 nationals SP "relax you're on the team already." Tonya K. joking about the media and Campbell's soup. Remember that? Does anyone really think even the skate of a lifetime by Angela would have changed the Michelle, Sasha, Sarah trio in 2002? Really? I genuinely believe the team is set regardless of how much competition we might think there is.

Besides those three who else currently has a strong international record? Nobody else comes close to those three. And we saw what happened in 2014 and 2018 so we know they will bend backwards to get the team they already got in mind no matter what. It truly sucks for Ting, Hannah and the other girls but that's how it goes. The only one who can truly spoil it, in my opinion, is a sudden miraculous back to 2014 form Gracie (and everyone knows how unlikely that is).

I agree. If any skater other than those three want to make a serious challenge for a spot, they have to start skating great now. This season's 4CC and Worlds (if they happen) are important factors in the selection process, and making those teams require not only skating well at 2021 Nationals, but also in the events leading up to it. Unlike you, I think there are a few skaters who could possibly factor in if they can master a jump beyond the 3Lz, but the current three favorites are pretty solid all around (or, in Alysa's case, strong enough technically to more than make up for weaknesses in other areas).
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
251
In all honestly, unless injury or something else bad happens, I feel like the USFSA will set to Alysa, Bradie and Mariah to the Olympics no matter what. USFSA usually like to keep the world team and who they politik/promote consistent year to year and regardless of how brilliant Ting or any other girl is I can't see them breaking that trio. Remember the USFSA official who pretty much told Tara after the 98 nationals SP "relax you're on the team already." Tonya K. joking about the media and Campbell's soup. Remember that? Does anyone really think even the skate of a lifetime by Angela would have changed the Michelle, Sasha, Sarah trio in 2002? Really? I genuinely believe the team is set regardless of how much competition we might think there is.

Besides those three who else currently has a strong international record? Nobody else comes close to those three. And we saw what happened in 2014 and 2018 so we know they will bend backwards to get the team they already got in mind no matter what. It truly sucks for Ting, Hannah and the other girls but that's how it goes. The only one who can truly spoil it, in my opinion, is a sudden miraculous back to 2014 form Gracie (and everyone knows how unlikely that is).
With all due respect, of course Tara and Michelle were a lock for the ‘98 Olympic team. The question was who would get that third spot. About Sasha, that’s a good question. She had all the hype. Angela was hot and cold. It’s hard to say what wouldn’t happened had Angela skated lights out.
I’d love to see Gracie come back strong. She had all the goods to be the best in the world. I’ll still be cheering her on and hopeful that she can defy the odds.
 

macy

you should see her in a crown
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
2,507
I'm happy for Gracie that she is approaching her career with a healthier, more mature mindset. While I think she enjoys competing and loves to skate, it seems that she's lost the fire needed to get back to the top in US skating. I thought covid might have been an equalizer that might put someone like Gracie on par with skaters ahead of her since no one has been training, but it doesn't seem like she's made up any ground. I'd much prefer to see her fall attempting triples than popping jumps into singles or doubles, because at least that would show she's fighting.
the pandemic has done Gracie zero favors. she is still in the process of regaining competitive form and time away from the ice will only make you regress or stall your progress. it's a different for skaters who haven't taken long breaks and completely lost form. i would imagine it's been 10x harder for Gracie than anyone else.

at this point, the team looks like Mariah, Bradie and Alysa, but we still have almost 2 full seasons to go. Ting and Hanna will be back this season and if they're good, they could throw a wrench into things. we have basically no news on how Alysa is doing with her new coaches, Bradie is with a new coach, and Mariah while being on an upwards trajectory is probably the most vulnerable of the 3. We saw Bradie come out of nowhere in 2017-2018 and Polina Edmunds in 2013-2014, who if i remember right, the olympics was her first major senior international event.
 

Skatefan15

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
486
Since as of right now we only have two spots, who do you guys think it might be? (I know it’s hard to say since we still have awhile until Beijing and there are a lot of question marks when it comes to the US ladies, but I’m curious)
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
My predictions:
1. Alysa Liu - developing her skating skills, speed, and jumps; possesses the 3A, 4Lz, and a 4S (an article said she can land it, but it's inconsistent)
2. Bradie Tennell - most consistent US ladies skater, developing technically and artistically, and time will only tell if this coaching change is for the best
3. Mariah Bell - has really grown into her position as one of the leading ladies of US figure skating, becoming consistent and reliable, and increasing her technical arsenal
4. Ting Cui - probably the most "gifted" US lady right now, but has a hard time putting everything together; learning the 4T and 3A, but those developments were put off when she was injured
5. Hanna Harrell - amazing jumper with poise and presence on the ice; learning the 4T and 3A but put off by injury
6. Amber Glenn - inconsistent but when on, she is a powerhouse
7. Karen Chen - we saw glimpses of what she is capable of during 4CC but struggles with consistency, injuries, and technical firepower
8. Audrey Shin - generally consistent, but struggles with URs; landed several 3As that were < or <<; landed several 4Ts that were < or <<
9. Starr Andrews - Developing nicely and could be in for a career with longevity, but needs harder elements (a 3Lz), consistency, and a stronger 3-3
10. Isabelle Inthisone - starting to develop into her own; learning the 3A and 4T; slightly inconsistent and needs to develop artistically
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
5,318
Besides those three who else currently has a strong international record? Nobody else comes close to those three. And we saw what happened in 2014 and 2018 so we know they will bend backwards to get the team they already got in mind no matter what.
But there's another factor ... US fans and USFS also Love, Love, Love to have a fire-cracking newcomer burst onto the scene, especially in the ladies' division. Mirai in 2008-2010. Polina and Gracie in 2014. Bradie in 2018.

In my opinion, Lindsay Thorngren has potential to become that "best new thing." After everyone was talking about her this past week, I tried to watch her Sept. 22 ISP vids, which for me did the stop, start, skip all the jumps thing; no go. So I watched her Gdansk JGP from last year. Impressive technique, and Ted B. even commented: She has a haunting quality, and she doesn't know it yet. He's right, and that could become an "it" factor.

Reading others' comments about Ting and Hanna, what concerns me is the link between learning/doing a 3A or quad, and being injured, to the extent that they were both more or less out of competition all last year. Those elements are so new for ladies, I imagine it's hard for coaches to catch up to how to manage the new stresses on the body. ETA: at least Tom Z. knows how to do that.

the pandemic has done Gracie zero favors. she is still in the process of regaining competitive form and time away from the ice will only make you regress or stall your progress. it's a different for skaters who haven't taken long breaks and completely lost form. i would imagine it's been 10x harder for Gracie than anyone else.
Gracie said in the SH interview in May that it's really hard for her not to be physically present with the people who give her support and validation (a word she used more than once in other contexts). So I concur with your "10x" evaluation. And don't forget, until a couple of years ago, she and Carly had each other 100% of the time, being each other's biggest fan. So yeah. And just speaking of the physical, more than one skater has said the pandemic break was the longest time off ice they've ever had except for recovering from injuries. And that was qualitatively different because they were still doing rehab that kept them working with others toward their goal.
 
Last edited:
Top