2020-21 US Ladies’ Figure Skating

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FWIW, Amber already was credited with triple axel in a virtual competition -- Colonial Cyber Series. ...

FWIW I don't get the impression she actually landed it in the Colonial Cyber competition. ...

Sorry, I should have been more specific: The Colonial protocol did credit Amber's 3A with full rotation. ...



ETA:

FWIW: I am 99% sure that I remember that in the recent Beyond The Rink podcast interview with Amber, host Kevin Wu made a reference to her having (already) landed triple axel in competition.​
I am not going to go back to re-listen, but when I heard what Kevin said, I assumed that he was talking about the Colonial competition.​
Again, FWIW.​

Can't you fully rotate a jump but still fall on it? Does that still count as landed?

The screencap is here so people can interpret it for themselves: https://twitter.com/FSIgstories/status/1293338026853228544

I guess I thought she would have made it more clear if she had actually landed a 3A in competition. The caption seemed and still seems intentionally vague to me. But good point about the no < or <<, so she at least fully rotated it, which is already great!

As a general answer unrelated to Amber: In theory, yes, I am aware that it is possible both to fully a rotate a jump and to fall on it.

As for Amber's triple axel:

Thanks for the screenshot, which shows that GOE was not visible in her Instastory, but full rotation was.​

What I originally said is that Amber was "credited" with the jump, and then I corrected myself to say that it was credited with full rotation.​
I myself have not used the wording of "landed" -- except in my recollection of what Kevin Wu said in his podcast. I hope/believe that he would not have used the wording of "landed" lightly.​
What we know is only that she did not share her GOE. Even if we assume that her GOE for triple axel was lower than she would have liked, that would not automatically mean that she had a fall.​

I will try to leave it there, LOL.
Sincere thanks to everyone for your supportive words for Amber.
 

Sk8D8

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FWIW I don't get the impression she actually landed it in the Colonial Cyber competition. I remember the protocol being partly covered when she showed it in her Instastory and I also feel like she would have said something if she had landed it.

I really really want her to land one in competition this season. Rise, Amber, rise!!!
Coming from someone who saw the video
FWIW I don't get the impression she actually landed it in the Colonial Cyber competition. I remember the protocol being partly covered when she showed it in her Instastory and I also feel like she would have said something if she had landed it.

I really really want her to land one in competition this season. Rise, Amber, rise!!!
Coming from someone who saw the video submitted and full protocol sheet, her 3 axel was fully rotated and landed on one foot, no fall or step out.
 

tosca

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Ashley Wagner is the latest episode of Polina Edmunds podcasts. I will say while I am not a huge fan of the podcast, I have found it interesting to hear Polina's perspective on her career. The Ashley Wagner episode is even more interesting as they discuss the transition out of a skating career. Ashley echoes many of the sentiments that are shared in The Weight of Gold documentary.
 

NaVi

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A little OT but I found this interesting.

According to this chart, US figure skating membership is at 202 thousand: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282366/total-membership-us-figure-skating/

It's interesting to see membership has rose ever year since the 2012/13.

Unsure how equivalent the number are, but this article indicates that 288 thousand people are currently engaged in figure skating in Russia.: https://stadium.ru/news/270896

They say that's an increase but I don't have the previous numbers.
 

gkelly

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A little OT but I found this interesting.

According to this chart, US figure skating membership is at 202 thousand: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282366/total-membership-us-figure-skating/
"The statistic depicts the total membership of U.S. figure skating from 1007 to 2019."

Haha. There was no U.S. in 1007, nor was there such a thing as figure skating. Maybe there were people skating for transportation/general recreation on Dutch canals at the time -- we know there were in the 1300s.
 

Backoutside

"Jumps as if it costs her nothing"
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Quotes from Molly Oberstar, who is one of Mariah's choreographers, as well as from Mariah.
I wish Oberstar could practice saying "Mariah is an example of what I LOVE IN Ladies' skating."; not "WHAT SHOULD BE". Inelegant, casual and unnecessary throwing of shade pours more fuel on the flame wars.

I love most hearing what other fans, and coaches, and choreographers find TO LOVE about their skaters and our sport.
 

Bluediamonds09

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I kinda don’t understand what Starr is doing tbh.... the music choices and the difficulty with both flip and lutz that she’s had for many seasons. But perhaps she’s skating for fun? For herself? Yet on her Twitter or someplace it said she wanted to go to olympics.
 

frida80

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I kinda don’t understand what Starr is doing tbh.... the music choices and the difficulty with both flip and lutz that she’s had for many seasons. But perhaps she’s skating for fun? For herself? Yet on her Twitter or someplace it said she wanted to go to olympics.

Sometimes skaters take a long time before they make significant changes. I think the music choices are good ones. The last two seasons she had complicated FS music that required more choreography which took time away from focusing on consistency. Two simple songs will help her focus just on consistency and skating skills.

I think she’s starting stronger than the last few seasons. The SP is clean. The FS needs more mileage. Hopefully after a few more comps, she can get it clean.

But I too think she needs more help with her flip and lutz. I think she made head way in 2018-2019, even getting positive GoE in Challenge Skate. However, the last season the layout was all wrong to continue progress as the fourth jump rather than the first. I hope that at least, when they add it back in it will be the first jump so she has more mental energy to focus on staying on the outside edge.


That said, I wonder why people are in such a rush for her. Lots of ladies take a while to settle in to seniors before they make some traction. Just let her go st her own pace. The more you rush things, the less you’ll accomplish.
 

mrrice

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Sometimes skaters take a long time before they make significant changes. I think the music choices are good ones. The last two seasons she had complicated FS music that required more choreography which took time away from focusing on consistency. Two simple songs will help her focus just on consistency and skating skills.

I think she’s starting stronger than the last few seasons. The SP is clean. The FS needs more mileage. Hopefully after a few more comps, she can get it clean.

But I too think she needs more help with her flip and lutz. I think she made head way in 2018-2019, even getting positive GoE in Challenge Skate. However, the last season the layout was all wrong to continue progress as the fourth jump rather than the first. I hope that at least, when they add it back in it will be the first jump so she has more mental energy to focus on staying on the outside edge.


That said, I wonder why people are in such a rush for her. Lots of ladies take a while to settle in to seniors before they make some traction. Just let her go st her own pace. The more you rush things, the less you’ll accomplish.
How old is Starr? She's such a tiny lady that I thought she was still in her teens.
 

Bluediamonds09

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Sometimes skaters take a long time before they make significant changes. I think the music choices are good ones. The last two seasons she had complicated FS music that required more choreography which took time away from focusing on consistency. Two simple songs will help her focus just on consistency and skating skills.

I think she’s starting stronger than the last few seasons. The SP is clean. The FS needs more mileage. Hopefully after a few more comps, she can get it clean.

But I too think she needs more help with her flip and lutz. I think she made head way in 2018-2019, even getting positive GoE in Challenge Skate. However, the last season the layout was all wrong to continue progress as the fourth jump rather than the first. I hope that at least, when they add it back in it will be the first jump so she has more mental energy to focus on staying on the outside edge.


That said, I wonder why people are in such a rush for her. Lots of ladies take a while to settle in to seniors before they make some traction. Just let her go st her own pace. The more you rush things, the less you’ll accomplish.
Some good points. But I don’t think I’m rushing her because she went to her first senior International in February 2018.
Starr also doesn’t do the 3sal-3rippontoe anymore to get a few more points. I don’t understand the direction. The USFSA like her and so do her fans, so I’m sure she could get enough from a GoFundMe for a bit of time with a jump technician or better choreography, instead of Lisa McKinnon dresses. But of course, Starr makes these decisions with her mom and her coach. I’m just putting in my opinion that I see from afar.
 

frida80

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Some good points. But I don’t think I’m rushing her because she went to her first senior International in February 2018.
Starr also doesn’t do the 3sal-3rippontoe anymore to get a few more points. I don’t understand the direction. The USFSA like her and so do her fans, so I’m sure she could get enough from a GoFundMe for a bit of time with a jump technician or better choreography, instead of Lisa McKinnon dresses. But of course, Starr makes these decisions with her mom and her coach. I’m just putting in my opinion that I see from afar.

We as figure skating fans have a complete different perspective that coaches, skaters, judges, and officials. It may seem like we have all the answers, but we only have own opinions about what we think skaters should do and focus on. There are many ways to progress in skating, Starr is just taking a different one than the one you agree with.

I personally think that Starr should not be castigated for a dress or for not switching coaches. And I think implying that she is not serious when she’s scoring in the 180s is kinda offensive. In her second year, Bradie scored a 160 in JW, Starr just scored 180.

I think that’s she’a working on these elements and strongly believes that she can achieve her goals with her current team. Jason believed for years he could achieve a quad with Kori. Maybe Starr likes her choreography and music and that’s why she doesn’t want to change it. You may not like decision, however from where I sit I can see why Starr hasn’t made any major changes. Because she’s been pretty successful in spite of them. Judges aren’t heavily penalizing her for her choreography, in fact her PCS score has improved over the last two seasons. A 180 puts her in the top 50 senior skaters in the world. From her and USFS perspective, she’s not doing that badly.

There are many ways for a skater to strategize during the season. This is a season in a panademic. She like other skaters had a large time off the ice, so that meant no time training for new jumps and no time for complex choreography. From my vantage point, I think she made the pragmatic decision to simply her layout for consistency rather than trying to increase difficulty only to change in mid season. As she gets more comfortable with her layout, then she can add in difficulty more easily.

It’s a different strategy, one that I respect. There are other things that she needs to work on that can be made easier with a simplier layout. Her JW scores were held down because of under rotations. A simple layout can help her focus more on stamina and underrotations which will improve her score a lot more than including more difficult combos. Mariah simplified her FS layout during her 2018-2019 season and it helped her improve her consistency. You could see the improvement over the course of two years.

If season doesn’t pan out, Starr may make major changes. But for now, she’s managed some modest success and is focusing more so on improving her consistency and current jumps. She has a lot to issues work on and working on all of them at the same time is a bad idea. Just eliminating her under rotations, improving her skating skills, and improving her consistency will improve her current scores around 20 points, to the all important 200 range. That’s even without the Lutz.

Also implying that she’s wasting money and has no money to pay for skating for a jump coach is also very inappropriate. Why would anyone pay $50,000 a year in boots, blades, rink fees, coaches, travel, choreography, etc if they weren’t serious? There is no financial boon in skating anymore. It’s a huge money pit, even if your medaling consistently. They only way to make any profit is to win major medals and go to the Olympics. Even then, it may not pay off. The only reason anyone would chose such an expensive sport with no pay off is because they love it deep in their hearts and truly believe they can succeed.

One thing I hope we can stop doing is speculating how serious a skater is about skating. It’s disrepectful to skaters. All of them are serious. All of them are working very hard towards their goals. We may not agree with their decisions or strategies, however it’s ultimately their decision why they want to approach their own skating.
 

TontoK

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I kinda don’t understand what Starr is doing tbh.... the music choices and the difficulty with both flip and lutz that she’s had for many seasons. But perhaps she’s skating for fun? For herself? Yet on her Twitter or someplace it said she wanted to go to olympics.

Well, sure. Everyone wants to go to the Olympics. But wanting to go and truly giving it a full commitment in terms of training, building a good team, etc... those are two different things.

Perhaps she is doing what she needs to do. I don't know enough about her. I'm just saying that "wanting to go to the Olympics" is easy to say, but requires an incredible amount of work to achieve. A couple of years ago, she burst on the scene with an exciting and inspired program, and I haven't really seen a lot since then that provides evidence of what it will take. I remain hopeful.
 
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