2020 NHK Trophy: Ladies' SP

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
Kaori is obviously a favorite with the judges. Which in Japan means that you will get the same score you would internationally. However, I do think the judges would likely have given Higuchi higher PCS if she landed her 3A. So, with a rotated 3A she would lead by several points.
But how does that benefit the sport? What happens if, knock on wood, Kaori can't compete somewhere or makes a big mistake? Maybe international judges don't pay attention to national scores? But if they do they'll get entirely the wrong impression of the other Japanese ladies.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
But how does that benefit the sport? What happens if, knock on wood, Kaori can't compete somewhere or makes a big mistake? Maybe international judges don't pay attention to national scores? But if they do they'll get entirely the wrong impression of the other Japanese ladies.
I am not saying it benefits them. In fact, I think Japanese ladies are frequently underscored because they don’t get backing from their federation. The point of my post was just to say a clean Higuchi would get higher PCS and can beat Kaori. The fed prefers Kaori but they are willing to give Wakaba high scores too when she is clean.
 

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
I am not saying it benefits them. In fact, I think Japanese ladies are frequently underscored because they don’t get backing from their federation. The point of my post was just to say a clean Higuchi would get higher PCS and can beat Kaori. The fed prefers Kaori but they are willing to give Wakaba high scores too when she is clean.
I think if Higuchi would have landed the 3A she would have gotten slightly higher PCS, but no more than 1 point more. She would have only a slight lead. In Nationals last year Sakamoto was a disaster and still got higher PCS than Higuchi. And last I checked Sakamoto doesn't have a 3A to cause inflation. Her team understands this, thats why they are not wasting time on fruitless 3A and 4T attempts. I agree with you that Wakaba can beat Kaori if she is clean with a 3A, but it would be barely, which is ridiculous. And that means in the LP, the GOE and PCS gap is likely to be even greater, which means that 1 more 3A wouldn't necessarily guarantee Higuchi victory, which it should. That's why I said Higuchi needs 3 to make sure of victory with Japanese judges. The huge PCS gap was a message. And this in turn adds pressure on Higuchi and reduces it on Sakamoto, because they both understand the politics.
 

solar

I got cat class and I got cat style
Medalist
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Country
United-States
It's not a surprise that I'm a huge fan of Wakaba and this event was no different! I'm hoping she lands the 3A in her free, but I just love this program for her.
 

SNAKSuyun

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Country
China
I'm a big fan of both Wakaba and Kaori, and I think Wakaba's GOEs and PCS have mostly suffered because she's been so inconsistent for so long. Those things tend to go up when you put out several consistent performances (no more than 1 fall or missed jump) in a row. Wakaba definitely can hit higher highs (as we've seen with her Worlds silver and now those beautiful 3As when landed) but her average over the past few years has undoubtedly been a lot lower than Kaori's. Just think about it, can you name many skaters internationally who keep getting A or S-tier PCS despite often having catastrophic skates?
 

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
I'm a big fan of both Wakaba and Kaori, and I think Wakaba's GOEs and PCS have mostly suffered because she's been so inconsistent for so long. Those things tend to go up when you put out several consistent performances (no more than 1 fall or missed jump) in a row. Wakaba definitely can hit higher highs (as we've seen with her Worlds silver and now those beautiful 3As when landed) but her average over the past few years has undoubtedly been a lot lower than Kaori's. Just think about it, can you name many skaters internationally who keep getting A or S-tier PCS despite often having catastrophic skates?
Wakaba's problems the last few years were injury related, and she was getting underscored in relation to Kaori in Japan from Kaoris first year. Its not like Wakaba is a new skater who hasnt had success before. Kaori having higher PCS than Wakaba doesn't make sense from the skating they did. And having Sakamoto over 3 points higher is a joke.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
Maybe because Satoko and Rika aren't here, but this year's Japanese ladies SPs all seem kind of bland... I tried to watch each programme enough to get an idea of it, but mostly skipped through after the step sequence, except for Wakaba, Kaori and Young.
I know soft knees are a good thing but with the prevalent choreo everything seems soft, like I'm drowning in marshmallows...

BTW step sequence levels are up to the tech panel to decide, not the judges. I can kind of see why some ladies missed their levels as there wasn't a lot of whole-body movement going on. Also good glide and speed aren't incompatible with unclear turns or two-foot skating (Tomoe did the latter a lot - she is very fast across the ice but speed is easier to pick up if you don't have a lot of transitions. I don't know if it's just with this particular SP though).

Not agreeing with the PCS scoring though. The gap between Kaori and Wakaba is too large even considering the fall. Wakaba's posture, neatness and attention to detail in her upper body movements are underappreciated.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Higuchi didn't get an edge call on her flip either, so that evens out.

No, it doesn't. The lutz having a higher BV generally makes edge calls on lutzes more costly then flips, because both the edge call reduction and GOE are tied to BV (even if those differences alone are relatively small). What's more in this case, Kaori got +2 GOE on her lutz (that's +3's and +4's for a lutz with a clearer inside edge then the average flip) compared to Wakaba's +0.5 on her Flip.
Had both been called correctly, Kaori would have lost more points then Wakaba.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
I finally watched this competition. I loved everyone.
Mai, I'm so happy to see her and I love her Magic program.:hap10:
Yuhana, her dress is beautiful and I do think she is one to watch. :cheer:

Marin her pc's are a crime👿
 

Azikin

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
I finally watched this competition. I loved everyone.
Mai, I'm so happy to see her and I love her Magic program.:hap10:
Yuhana, her dress is beautiful and I do think she is one to watch. :cheer:

Marin her pc's are a crime👿
Me too. Just now. I agree but Mai got so skinny... :scratch2:

I think Yuhana was underscored in PCS department, after such a beautiful clean skate, especially in comparison to Wakaba...
 
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