2021–22 Canadian Figure Skating

[4everchan]

The only exception for no quads but still make it to the podium,well... only Jason I guess. Anyway, the new judging system reduces the base value for the same quad type in case one is performed in separation, the other is done in combo, so our men definitely need proper strategies along with consistency.

i am not sure what you are referring to when you are talking about the new judging system... did i miss a memo?

 

[ashleyming]

i am not sure what you are referring to when you are talking about the new judging system... did i miss a memo?

Recently, I have just taken a look at the ISU textbook. The new rules did say that the base value for the same type of jumping element in a program must be lower if that element is performed twice, even if the first one is in separation and the second one is in combo (For example with 4T and 4T-3T in combo, the second one must be scored lower in overall). So things have changed so much, comparing to the old system when Patrick broke the 200 points in 2016 with 4T and 4T-3T.

 

[SnowWhite]

Recently, I have just taken a look at the ISU textbook. The new rules did say that the base value for the same type of jumping element in a program must be lower if that element is performed twice, even the first one is in separation and the second one is in combo (For example with 4T and 4T-3T in combo, the second one must be scored lower in overall).

I don't think that's how it works. The BV for an element doesn't change when it's repeated, unless one is not in combo, then you get +Combo which reduces the BV.

 

[4everchan]

Recently, I have just taken a look at the ISU textbook. The new rules did say that the base value for the same type of jumping element in a program must be lower if that element is performed twice, even if the first one is in separation and the second one is in combo (For example with 4T and 4T-3T in combo, the second one must be scored lower in overall). So things have changed so much, comparing to the old system when Patrick broke the 200 points in 2016 with 4T and 4T-3T.

i think @SnowWhite is correct here... the BV will only be lowered if the skater was supposed to do a combo and didn't do it.

 

[ashleyming]

I don't think that's how it works. The BV for an element doesn't change when it's repeated, unless one is not in combo, then you get +Combo which reduces the BV.

If my memory serves me right anyway. Repeating in combo is still be scored higher than receiving a REP call, the GOE will be considered, but just 1 type of quad jump still cannot be scored higher than a variety of 4 collection. That's the different between the new and old rules.

 

[ashleyming]

i think @SnowWhite is correct here... the BV will only be lowered if the skater was supposed to do a combo and didn't do it.

Seems like the judges prefer the technical content with one type of quad in independent jumping system and the other type of quad in combo to the content of one type in both.

 

[4everchan]

If my memory serves me right anyway. Repeating in combo is still be scored higher than receiving a REP call, the GOE will be considered, but just 1 type of quad jump still cannot be scored higher than a variety of 4 collection. That's the different between the new and old rules.

if a skater does one quad in solo jump there is no REP call and the base value doesn't go down... It only happens when a skater did a Solo quad, then attempted the same jump again but didn't succeed to do a combo... then there is a REP call... this is nothing new. You should check out some protocols.. you will see it easily.

 

[4everchan]

For instance

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2122/gpcan2021/FSKMSINGLES-----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

Look at Semenko's 4t. 9.5 for the solo jump... which is the BV for the quad toe. 10.8 for 4t+2t. 9.5 +1.3 = 10.8. Nathan does the same combo and gets a 10 percent bonus because it is in the second half... 10.8 X 1.1 = 11.88

 

[ashleyming]

if a skater does one quad in solo jump there is no REP call and the base value doesn't go down... It only happens when a skater did a Solo quad, then attempted the same jump again but didn't succeed to do a combo... then there is a REP call... this is nothing new.

Yeah, what I mean here is not about the REP call case. It's about when everything is flawless with one solo quad and one combo in the same type of jump. Everything is still valid, but could not be scored as high as it used to be a few years ago, partly because of the judging panel. (For example: 4T and 4T-1Eu-3F would be scored not higher than 4Lz (or 4F) and 4T-1Eu-3F).

 

[4everchan]

Yeah, what I mean here is not about the REP call case. It about when everything is flawless with one solo quad and one combo in the same type of jump. Everything is still valid, but could not be scored as high as it used to be a few years ago, partly because of the judging panel. (For example: 4T and 4T-1Eu-3F would be scored not higher than 4Lz (or 4F) and 4T-1Eu-3F).

well 4lutz has a higher base value... i think you have misunderstood things.... the judging panel does not change the base value... Patrick's quad toes would have received just as high GOE as before ... and scored just as high as before.

 

[ashleyming]

well 4lutz has a higher base value... i think you have misunderstood things.... the judging panel does not change the base value... Patrick's quad toes would have received just as high GOE as before ... and scored just as high as before.

Maybe I should take a look again later. But yeah, it's now all about the jumps for the guys, no exception unless their trademarks are skating skills like Patrick. Simply that strategy just cannot be repeated, so better be consitent with the quads, I guess.

 

[4everchan]

Maybe I should take a look again later. But yeah, it's now all about the jumps for the guys, no exception unless their trademarks are skating skills like Patrick. Simply that strategy just cannot be repeat, so better be consitent with the quads, I guess.

well i don't know... i see Patrick as the special skater who had the skating skills and then added consistent quads, which made him almost untouchable. After Sochi, exotic quads started to show up.... Boyang, Shoma and Nathan etc... even Patrick brought in a quad salchow. RIght now, many men are just not landing things properly. I am sure that if Patrick came back and skated the way he did at 4CC he would score as well as before... would it be enough? It would not be good enough to beat a clean Nathan or Shoma... but that's sport... it's the same with the women : if Kaetlyn or Zhenya came back, without 3a and quads, they would not beat the young Russian women. I don't have a problem with that as long as PCS are not given like candies for skaters who ONLY have the quads. But Nathan and Shoma are fine skaters and they are beautiful on the ice. Very different in style from one another and from Patrick.. but still great overall skaters. But that's not the judging system here... it's just the evolution of the sport. Patrick knew what he was doing when he retired he had maxed out on what his body was able to accomplish and had received all possible accolades. 3 Olympic medals, 5 world medals. 10 Canadian titles. That's enough. Sometimes, I miss him... because our men are not landing the content Patrick was landing even in 2014, let alone in 2017 when he added a third quad. But the problem doesn't reside in a change of the judging system but simply in the fact that this year, our men are just not there.
Keegan has a baby. Nam has had lots of issues. Roman is inconsistent. Jo is recovering from injury. Conrad still needs to get better skating skills and more consistency. Gogolev grew 10 inches and lost his quads... I have written off these olympics for figure skating for Canada. I will be focusing on speed skating and honestly, the games in Korea made me so happy as a Canadian fan, that I am okay with it

 

[ashleyming]

well i don't know... i see Patrick as the special skater who had the skating skills and then added consistent quads, which made him almost untouchable. After Sochi, exotic quads started to show up.... Boyang, Shoma and Nathan etc... even Patrick brought in a quad salchow. RIght now, many men are just not landing things properly. I am sure that if Patrick came back and skated the way he did at 4CC he would score as well as before... would it be enough? It would not be good enough to beat a clean Nathan or Shoma... but that's sport... it's the same with the women : if Kaetlyn or Zhenya came back, without 3a and quads, they would not beat the young Russian women. I don't have a problem with that as long as PCS are not given like candies for skaters who ONLY have the quads. But Nathan and Shoma are fine skaters and they are beautiful on the ice. Very different in style from one another and from Patrick.. but still great overall skaters. But that's not the judging system here... it's just the evolution of the sport. Patrick knew what he was doing when he retired he had maxed out on what his body was able to accomplish and had received all possible accolades. 3 Olympic medals, 5 world medals. 10 Canadian titles. That's enough. Sometimes, I miss him... because our men are not landing the content Patrick was landing even in 2014, let alone in 2017 when he added a third quad. But the problem doesn't reside in a change of the judging system but simply in the fact that this year, our men are just not there.
Keegan has a baby. Nam has had lots of issues. Roman is inconsistent. Jo is recovering from injury. Conrad still needs to get better skating skills and more consistency. Gogolev grew 10 inches and lost his quads... I have written off these olympics for figure skating for Canada. I will be focusing on speed skating and honestly, the games in Korea made me so happy as a Canadian fan, that I am okay with it

Still beautiful but maybe not enough to win at 4CC and Worlds Arena, but he is already a legend. Well Patrick is in a class of his own definitely, and time has proved that it's not because of him (and Skate Can) that other men of Canada could not win anything, it's because of the quality of skating that they have shown the world.

 

[4everchan]

I am not ready to give up on Canadian men... there is a long long line of world champions from Orser to Patrick. Nam is a world junior champion...but then grew.. I am still hoping that Conrad, Joseph and Roman and maybe Gogo will be good in the next 4 years... this year though, it's bad timing... It happens... at least, we cannot be disappointed... like when Kurt didn't win even a medal at the games or Elvis came 2nd... or when Patrick, after two brilliant quads, didn't manage to keep it together enough to win at Sochi... this time, we have no expectation... that's nice for a change

 

[ashleyming]

Let see what Skate Can. can do for the next gen, just chilling and waiting now, would be better than labelling something and then accidentally cursed them.

 

[4everchan]

Let see what Skate Can. can do for the next gen, just chilling and waiting now, would be better than labelling something and then accidentally cursed them.

i don't believe anyone of us have the power of cursing or jinxing a skater they do that to themselves enough

 

[ashleyming]

i don't believe anyone of us have the power of cursing or jinxing a skater they do that to themselves enough

Lol, just kidding but I admit that I'm now afraid of hyping up the guys before they win in real life, probably because of the unhappy ending whenever I feel interested in watching someone skates and following his career.

 

[4everchan]

Lol, just kidding but I admit that I'm now afraid of hyping up the guys before they win in real life, probably because of the unhappy ending whenever I feel interested in watching someone skates and following his career.

hehe well... i understand what you mean... but i am still going to adore Jo no matter how well he ends up succeeding in his career

 

[ashleyming]

hehe well... i understand what you mean... but i am still going to adore Jo no matter how well he ends up succeeding in his career

Of course, adoring someone would never be a problem, as long as they make people happy with their beautiful skating. Competitive highlights and joy make this sport, so even in the low-key time, there would still be an element of grace.

 

[Skater Boy]

if a skater does one quad in solo jump there is no REP call and the base value doesn't go down... It only happens when a skater did a Solo quad, then attempted the same jump again but didn't succeed to do a combo... then there is a REP call... this is nothing new. You should check out some protocols.. you will see it easily.

That is correct.