2021 Autumn Classic: Women's Short Program

[auser]

Totally missed this. But checking the protocols it seems the judges were brutally harsh...

Replay of Women's SP available here:

Women Short Program - 2021 Autumn Classic International - video Dailymotion

2021 AUTUMN CLASSIC INTERNATIONAL SPORTPLEXE PIERREFONDS | PIERREFONDS, QC SEPTEMBER 16-18, 2021

www.dailymotion.com

 

[RatedPG]

I love the technical panel judge. He/She must have been analyzing the rotations in detail with a microscope .

Marilena KITROMILIS was the star of the SP. I wish she had scored higher.

 

[Jontor]

I love the technical panel judge. He/She must have been analyzing the rotations in detail with a microscope .

Marilena KITROMILIS was the star of the SP. I wish she had scored higher.

Well, microscope or not, that is what I call harsh judging.

But it was not only the tech panel. The 7 judges were all a bit sour when it came to GOE's and PCS.

I saw Young You's performance. Yes, fall on the 3A, but she was totally underscored imo.

 

[RatedPG]

I know. I expected way higher scores for most of the competitors. I expected high 60s for You and for some of the better performances here. That is why it is hard to take season top 24 best scores list seriously. The Challenger event in Italy for example was less strict than here. Events in Canada tend to be scored more harshly. I hope Skate Canada isn’t too strict. Else, nobody will start to participate in any events in Canada. In case of a tie, they go by total score of the two events and an event with harsher judging could make the difference between making it to the Grand Prix Final or not.

 

[Jontor]

I know. I expected way higher scores for most of the competitors. I expected high 60s for You and for some of the better performances here. That is why it is hard to take season top 24 best scores list seriously. The Challenger event in Italy for example was less strict than here. Events in Canada tend to be scored more harshly. I hope Skate Canada isn’t too strict. Else, nobody will start to participate in any events in Canada. In case of a tie, they go by total score of the two events and an event with harsher judging could make the difference between making it to the Grand Prix Final or not.

It's not Canada's fault though. This panel of judges were not Canadians. I think that Challengers tend to get scored more harshly than other events. Two years ago Lombardia was brutal! Skate Canada was fine (and Trusova's record free skate still stands). The harshest GP that year was CoC. Overall, I think the GPs and especially the Championships tend to have more lenient judging imo.

But if you compare Lombardia and this, I agree, there is a lot of difference. Alysa was great at Lombardia, but her score was a tad bit high.

 

[rain]

Who would have thought, prior to the competition, that the entrant from Cypress would come out, skate first, and put down a mark that nobody would meet? Certainly not me. Good for her. I have to think her score would have been at least a bit higher if she had skated later in this messy event.

A few other thoughts:

Gabby Daleman needs a mental coach. There's nothing wrong with her fitness, it's all mental. Her combo at the beginning was easily big enough to pull in for a second triple toe, but she balked. Then she completely fell apart on the step sequence after falling on the lutz. On the plus side, choreographically her program was stunning, probably the best in the field. Bausback was messy as well — has she had a good competition since she won the ladies title in Canada? It's looking more and more like a fluke. There's something about Schumaker's skating that I'm really drawn to, but she technically inconsistent. None of these three looked like they were ready to mount a challenge to Schizas — I think the Olympic spot is hers to lose.

Young You just slid right off that edge on the triple axel. I despair of Karen Chen ever fixing her delayed rotation at this point in her career, which is too bad because she gets amazing height on her jumps, has great spins usually, and just a beautiful polish.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Is Kitromilis going to Nebelhorn?

 

[Colonel Green]

Is Kitromilis going to Nebelhorn?

She isn't presently assigned (that's Zingas), but the Cypriot fed has time to make the substitution if they so choose (which they should).

 

[Colonel Green]

Is Alison new at the TCC?

Very belatedly: no, she's been there for quite a long time. She used to be primarily coached by Lee Barkell, but after he left for the Granite Club she became primarily Joey Russell's student.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

i'm guessing Cyprus is going to win the sp

You guessed right!

It was her Auntie Elektra feeding her that made the difference!

Who would have thought, prior to the competition, that the entrant from Cypress would come out, skate first, and put down a mark that nobody would meet? Certainly not me. Good for her.

I would have. But, I'm a totally biased "adoptive Daddy".

Seriously, though. Having seen her SP skated cleanly in her earlier competitions, I am not at all surprised. It is a brilliant programme.

I have to think her score would have been at least a bit higher if she had skated later in this messy event.

Marilena KITROMILIS was the star of the SP. I wish she had scored higher.

As I said at the time, last night's score is her absolute PB for the SP. So, I'm more than happy enough with what she did get.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Is Kitromilis going to Nebelhorn?

She isn't presently assigned (that's Zingas), but the Cypriot fed has time to make the substitution if they so choose (which they should).

I don't want to be a mean adoptive parent, but I feel I should tell you all a story before you get ahead of yourselves.

Back in July, Marilena competed in Skate Milwaukee. She won the SP by a margin of about 4 points. It was her best ever SP score before last night. Then she had a disasterous Free Skate, including 4 points in deductions for falls. She finished the FS in 8th, dropping to 8th overall.

As I said in this thread before I went to bed last night, the nerves can get to Marilena when she is put in pressure situations.

Over the past couple of seasons, Emilea has shown that she can cope better in presure situations. How many times last season did she bomb in the SP, and then come back brilliantly in the FS, when the pressure was on her? If Emilea had got on better with her Short last season, I don't think we would even be having this discussion.

Both girls have 2 brilliant programmes this season. When they are skated clean, all four programmes are so impressive. Both of them deserve to be going to the Nebelhorn. But, the Fed had to choose one. And, given the pressure there is going to be to try to qualify Cyprus for the Olympics for the first time, I believe they have chosen the correct girl for the occasion.

Don't get me wrong, Marilena is a very strong skater. But, she needs a bit more time to learn to cope with pressure situations. And once she does, we are going to be in for some really exciting battles between her and Emilea for slots.

And it is only going to get even more exciting whenever Stefania Yakovleva decides to move up to Seniors, and we have 3 strong skaters fighting for the slots.

Exciting times ahead for Cyprus!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Gabby Daleman needs a mental coach. There's nothing wrong with her fitness, it's all mental.

Well, I guess some of it is probably emotional and psychological for Gabby. However, when Kevin Reynolds said that Gabby had abdominal surgery a few years ago, I didn't know that. Then, he mentioned she also suffered a concussion at a WTT trophy event in recent years. I didn't know that either. Those physical issues, combined with stress and psychological growing pains can definitely be difficult to come back from. That's life.

I'm not going to be too quick to say that it's all in Gabby's head. Physical problems and coming back strong from such setbacks can be difficult to deal with psychologically. Skaters generally don't reveal all the personal things going on in their lives, so sometimes it's best not to judge too harshly.

I recall fans dumping on former U.S. pairs skater, Chris Knierim, for his sbs jump woes. But looking back years earlier, he'd landed his jumps fairly well before he suffered a leg injury, which he didn't talk about in terms of using it as an excuse. Plus, he lost his father and an uncle around the time of the 2018 Olympics. After that, combined with the nagging effects of the leg injury hampering his jumping ability, Chris didn't have the same motivation and enjoyment of competing. He stuck to it for awhile, likely in order to be supportive of his pairs partner and wife, Alexa, until he just couldn't do it anymore. Fortunately, Chris called it quits after 2020 4CCs in order to save his sanity. And Alexa luckily found an even more well-matched partner in Brandon Frazier, who had split with his long term partner, Haven Denney.

Haven, btw, had a lot of trouble recovering psychologically from a serious knee injury in 2015 that should have ended her career; doctors told her she'd never walk again, much less skate. But Haven came all the way back to compete with Brandon, and to achieve at a fairly high level, despite never being able to conquer hesitation and difficulty on her sbs jumps. Her difficulties in consistently completing sbs jumps were clearly due to the lingering effects from the knee injury, that although healed, likely remained a source of weakness both physically and emotionally.

 

[pearly]

Well, I guess some of it is probably emotional and psychological for Gabby. However, when Kevin Reynolds said that Gabby had abdominal surgery a few years ago, I didn't know that. Then, he mentioned she also suffered a concussion at a WTT trophy event in recent years. I didn't know that either. Those physical issues, combined with stress and psychological growing pains can definitely be difficult to come back from. That's life.

I'm not going to be too quick to say that it's all in Gabby's head. Physical problems and coming back strong from such setbacks can be difficult to deal with psychologically. Skaters generally don't reveal all the personal things going on in their lives, so sometimes it's best not to judge too harshly.

I recall fans dumping on former U.S. pairs skater, Chris Knierim, for his sbs jump woes. But looking back years earlier, he'd landed his jumps fairly well before he suffered a leg injury, which he didn't talk about in terms of using it as an excuse. Plus, he lost his father and an uncle around the time of the 2018 Olympics. After that, combined with the nagging effects of the leg injury hampering his jumping ability, Chris didn't have the same motivation and enjoyment of competing. He stuck to it for awhile, likely in order to be supportive of his pairs partner and wife, Alexa, until he just couldn't do it anymore. Fortunately, Chris called it quits after 2020 4CCs in order to save his sanity. And Alexa luckily found an even more well-matched partner in Brandon Frazier, who had split with his long term partner, Haven Denney.

Haven, btw, had a lot of trouble recovering psychologically from a serious knee injury in 2015 that should have ended her career; doctors told her she'd never walk again, much less skate. But Haven came all the way back to compete with Brandon, and to achieve at a fairly high level, despite never being able to conquer hesitation and difficulty on her sbs jumps. Her difficulties in consistently completing sbs jumps were clearly due to the lingering effects from the knee injury, that although healed, likely remained a source of weakness both physically and emotionally.

Gabby's been having issues since before the 2019 WTT collision and injuries. I don't recall following her much before the abdominal surgery so I can't say if issues started before that or after, but body image has been a huge problem for her for a long time. It's all out there on her social media. Basically, there have been huge neon flash signs pointing that there is a lot to work on for a long time now and no adult in the room to sit her down and help her. This has been going on since at least 2017.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I can't wait to watch the FP tonight (Mainly to hear Kevin Reynolds commentate).

 

[rain]

I'm not going to be too quick to say that it's all in Gabby's head. Physical problems and coming back strong from such setbacks can be difficult to deal with psychologically. Skaters generally don't reveal all the personal things going on in their lives, so sometimes it's best not to judge too harshly.

Psychological and emotional issues are all in someone's head. As differentiated from physical constraints. You just said exactly the same thing I said. Needless to say I agree with you.

 

[pearly]

What? Some of those are literally caused by chemical imbalance in a person's brain.

Thinking positive thoughts and deciding you're gonna eat today do not cure mental or eating disorders any better than deciding you can walk heals a broken leg.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Gabby's been having issues since before the 2019 WTT collision and injuries. I don't recall following her much before the abdominal surgery so I can't say if issues started before that or after, but body image has been a huge problem for her for a long time. It's all out there on her social media. Basically, there have been huge neon flash signs pointing that there is a lot to work on for a long time now and no adult in the room to sit her down and help her. This has been going on since at least 2017.

Sure, but that still doesn't mean Gabby is completely 'fit,' and that her competition difficulties are 'all in her head.' Nor does it mean she deserves to be belittled and looked down upon in knee-jerk fashion because she goes out there and fails to deliver her programs the way we previously had become accustomed to expect from her.

I personally don't know if Gabby is receiving help for her physical and psychological scars. And if so, what kind of intervention it might be.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Psychological and emotional issues are all in someone's head. As differentiated from physical constraints. You just said exactly the same thing I said. Needless to say I agree with you.

I differ from you in believing that psychological and emotional issues are "all in someone's head." Such struggles manifest in the physical body as well. Anxiety and stress can lead to disease in the body, in case you are unaware of that fact. Just as physical injury can lead to psychological and emotional problems, for e.g. in the case of Haven Denney finding it to be a difficult mental battle to launch into jumps the way she used to prior to her knee injury, no matter how hard she tried.

 

[rain]

I differ from you in believing that psychological and emotional issues are "all in someone's head." Such struggles manifest in the physical body as well. Anxiety and stress can lead to disease in the body, in case you are unaware of that fact. Just as physical injury can lead to psychological and emotional problems, for e.g. in the case of Haven Denney finding it to be a difficult mental battle to launch into jumps the way she used to prior to her knee injury, no matter how hard she tried.

Indeed there can be crossover, but I don't think it's correct to look at Gabby and how she's skating and say there's anything wrong with her physically. I think she looks pretty objectively to be in great physical condition. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having non-physical mental health struggles and it should be treated just as one would go to physical therapy for a physical injury. I didn't mean that it's all in her head in a dismissive way. Just because the problem is in your head, doesn't make it any less real or important.

I'm not going to continue to argue, since I don't think we actually disagree, and I come here for fun in my spare time, lol.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Indeed there can be crossover, but I don't think it's correct to look at Gabby and how she's skating and say there's anything wrong with her physically. I think she looks pretty objectively to be in great physical condition. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having non-physical mental health struggles and it should be treated just as one would go to physical therapy for a physical injury. I didn't mean that it's all in her head in a dismissive way. Just because the problem is in your head, doesn't make it any less real or important.

I'm not going to continue to argue, since I don't think we actually disagree, and I come here for fun in my spare time, lol.

I don't see this as an argument. We have differing points of view. The tone toward Gabby's difficulties has been rather dismissive in a lot of quarters, which I think may be because fans have high expectations of her, based upon her past record as a high achiever in the sport. It's not about looking at how she's skating and saying there's 'something wrong with her physically.' I didn't say that. What I reacted to was the comment that, "It's all in her head," which is doing the opposite: Looking at how she's skating and saying there's 'nothing wrong with her physically.'

I don't think any of us know what is exactly going on with Gabby, but it has been painful to watch. I hope she can get the help she needs to figure out what she truly wants to do. I hope she will be able to relieve any mental and physical problems that are hampering her abilities to perform in the way she desires. And if she doesn't want to continue competing, I hope she will be able to feel free enough to decide to stop skating, and pursue other interests. If she wants to continue and she isn't feeling outside pressure to do so, then I hope she gets the help she needs to take care of her physical and emotional needs.

No matter whether athletes are in fit condition, most athletes generally experience physical discomforts, which is simply part of competing at a high level.

Enjoy the rest of the skating season!