2021 Finlandia Trophy: Pairs Free Skate

[La Rhumba]

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Apologies for the glitch at the start. My laptop is not working and I installed a recorder on my tablet but not running as smoothly.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Have you ever watched skating without crying conspiracy? There's being upset and then there's this..It should be possible to look at all skaters and programs at least somewhat objectively.

I am simply commenting on my impressions of what I just saw and heard with my own eyes and ears. M/G's fp music is horrible. I have no problem with their actual skating. They are young, and they need the opportunity to develop into more interesting skaters. Meanwhile, there is no conspiracy involved in the scoring here, so you don't need to exaggerate, please. It's just like @brigit66 said, judges will throw points at certain Russian teams, and that's a given. Definitely in ice dance, it's very political. But this is Finlandia pairs thread and that's what I'm discussing.

For you to act as if there needs to be a conspiracy for the judges to show love for a very young Russian team whom they anointed with a World championship earlier this year, maybe you should brush up on the sport's history surrounding judging.

Fingers-crossed for Sui/Han to come loaded for bear and show the judges what cohesive, well-rounded, accomplished and compelling pairs skating programs look like.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Wow, so not even skating clean is good enough for the pair that’s literally doing the hardest content this quad and actually landing their stuff?

It’s one thing to not like a program, I don’t like it that much either, but they’re just doing what they have to. Literally not their fault no one seems to actually skate clean programs.

Pairs that have been crashing and falling and failing to do clean programs should pay their dues. Mishina and Galliamov have been doing that for years now. You can argue about programs and PCS, but to say they don’t deserve what they get for skating clean is not the take.

 

[LadyB]

Totally forgot to say how happy I am about Ash & Tim's third place.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

It looks like the judges did take into consideration in the fp that C/J have better qualities than some of the other mid-tier skaters at Finlandia, like Hase/Seegert and the new team of Barquero/Zandon. Both H/S and B/Z managed to land their jumps fairly well in the fp. But Minerva Hase was shaky on both of her throw landings. Also, both H/S and B/Z were otherwise slow over the ice in comparison to the U.S. teams.

With Ash/Timothy skating so well in both programs, the judges at least gave them some credit, finally, for how well they skated. C/J have to improve on their jumps, and they would be rated higher than many second tier teams, including their teammates, Ash/ Timothy. C/J have quality, quality, quality with great speed and ice coverage, style, great lifts, superb twist, lovely choreo, and a palpable connection. But C/J have to get their jumps in order. They showed some slight improvement at Finlandia on the jumps, but they have to gain precision and confidence with the jumps, or it will be Ash/Timothy making the Olympic team with Knierim/Frazier.

Too bad for Vanessa/Eric. Had they skated better, they might have been able to get closer to second, but that's not certain since T/M had huge sp scores. This is why the judges need to be much more reasonable with the points they give skaters they favor, like the Russian teams. It's way out of proportion, in that they throw huge points at some teams in the sp, putting podium placements out of reach when the same skaters falter in the fp. Meanwhile, they are reluctant to reward a team like Ash/Timothy who skated clean in the sp but the judges were stingy with their marks.

Mostly, I think the judges want to be able to trust skaters they reward. They feel safe rewarding the exquisite technical talent of the Russian teams. But unfortunately, when those teams falter, the judging is out of whack, because the judges have thrown all their chips to the Russian teams and are blinded into consistently giving them huge PCS when it isn't deserved. I understand why the judges want to reward T/M, but T/M have got to believe in themselves too and come out stronger, or M/G will continue to roll over them with the generous help of the judges.

There's absolutely no excuse for M/G's horrible music, which has nothing to do with their choreo and the way they skated. Everyone involved should be embarrassed.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Mishina and Galliamov have been doing that for years now.

LOL. This is incorrect. M/G had great programs last season once they switched to Moskvina, who truly helped them break out of their shells, and helped them with their confidence. Prior to that (look at 2019 - 2020 season), M/G had good elements, but they showed no connection with each other, and they were inconsistent. They did not skate perfectly clean programs. You are incorrect about that. Check out 2019 GPF, please. M/G were inconsistent as juniors, with flashes of brilliance. When they came up to seniors, they weren't perfect. I'm not sure what you're recalling.

Even last season, M/G weren't completely perfect at every competition. Sasha was ill, and their training was behind, and they were beaten by Pav/Kho at Russian Nationals. But Russian fed made the right decision (due to the buzz about M/G's programs) to send M/G to 2021 Worlds. M/G were simply lucky in their senior Worlds debut that Sui/Han (who have both been injured and biding their time for 2022 Olympics) were off their game. And, T/M, sadly as usual, could not get out of their own way at 2021 Worlds, and simply skate up to their gorgeous talent. The judges and T/M's fans must be so frustrated.

T/M are head-and-shoulders above everyone out there in ability, polish, execution. But they lack confidence in their own abilities, especially under pressure. And that's truly unfortunate, because I would like to see T/M prevail, but I don't trust them to be able to skate with confidence when it matters. Again, I hope Sui/Han are healthy and can come out and teach M/G what well-rounded, exciting pairs skating looks like.

 

[coldblueeyes]

No pair is perfect. I wasn’t saying they were, at all. Just that they competed marginally better than a lot of other pairs. They also have been landing the hardest jumps for an entire cycle, and improving each year. To say they haven’t earned their success is at minimum disrespectful to their work.

All pairs work a lot, unfortunately not all of them show their best in competition, but that where it matters. And these two are doing what they can to earn the trust of the judges in competition.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

No pair is perfect. I wasn’t saying they were, at all. Just that they competed marginally better than a lot of other pairs. They also have been landing the hardest jumps for an entire cycle, and improving each year. To say they haven’t earned their success is at minimum disrespectful to their work.

All pairs work a lot, unfortunately not all of them show their best in competition, but that where it matters. And these two are doing what they can to earn the trust of the judges in competition.

The point I am making is that, yes, Mishina/Galliamov are brilliant technically. And Moskvina has truly helped them. She doesn't work with everybody, but she saw their huge potential, and she's been helping them to realize their potential. But, it's a travesty, in my opinion, to over-reward a young team, even of this caliber, with huge PCS points that they do not deserve. I could accept the overdone scores better, if they had an Olympic-gold-medal-worthy program, but they DO NOT have even a marginally good fp. Hopefully, they will listen to the critical feedback, and ignore the judges rewarding their poor music

Let's hope that M/G don't become over-cocky about the judges' uber love. They do not deserve huge PCS scores, especially this early in the season, for such shlock fp music. Anyone who makes excuses for that music is kidding themselves. The music is completely disconnected from what they were doing on the ice! If they blatantly decide to keep this awful music, I hope they get rolled over at the Olympics by teams who bring it with better music and more interesting skating.

You are also over-stating that M/G "competed marginally better than a lot of other pairs." Last season, M/G had huge buzz because they had programs that enhanced their abilities. I give them credit for that. But they weren't 'marginally better' than everyone else out there before last season. That is incorrect. They have the gorgeous technique, but they weren't confident, and they weren't consistent. You could see them thinking while skating, prior to being coached by Moskvina. They weren't that interesting to watch (aside from flashes of technical brilliance), until Moskvina took them under her wing, to the despair of Boikova/Koslovskii.

Suddenly M/G are the end-all, be-all in pairs figure skating?! Nope, they need to further develop as skaters and as people. That's the truth.

 

[AlexBreeze]

This is the third competition in a row where M/G have set a TES record in the free skate. (Worlds - 78.96, WTT - 79.43, Finlandia Trophy - 80.63)

 

[coldblueeyes]

It’s interesting that you know who they are as people, when so far, all their interviews and interactions point to them being very respectful of everyone around them, and incredibly humble.

I guess anyone will run around and find anything to criticize them just because they are succeeding when other favorites are not. I’m out of this discussion, because it’s not going anywhere.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

It’s interesting that you know who they are as people, when so far, all their interviews and interactions point to them being very respectful of everyone around them, and incredibly humble.

I guess anyone will run around and find anything to criticize them just because they are succeeding when other favorites are not. I’m out of this discussion, because it’s not going anywhere.

Of course I do not know Mishina/Galliamov as people. I am talking about them developing as mature pairs athletes. They are young, and they still have a lot to learn on many levels. Every young person needs to develop as a person in order to mature and to bring their maturity and variety of experience and expression to what they do in the world.

Once again, I do not like M/G's fp music this season. I was happy for them winning last season when their programs matched and enhanced their abilities. I did think that their scores at 2021 Worlds were overly high. But we know the judges tend to do that for well-balanced, clean performances. And so, when beautifully balanced factors come together in an exciting performance, the overdone scores simply don't matter. By now, I never remember what Nathan Chen's actual scores were for his greatest performances -- just somewhere well over 300+ LOL. Mostly, I remember how absolutely boss Nathan was in the brilliant execution of his fp performance at 2021 Worlds.

Obviously, at 2021 Worlds M/G lucked out with the other top teams faltering. But M/G did their job, and they are now elevated to championship status. Still, that doesn't change the fact that M/G both have a lot of room for improvement. They need to grow with more life experiences, which in turn can bring more depth and nuance to their skating. They aren't completely polished in the way that T/M are. It's just that T/M can't seem to execute well under pressure. T/M are hit or miss, which is too bad. But maybe there's still time for T/M to overcome their jitters. Meanwhile, the judges are clearly gung-ho on Mishina/Galliamov. And with Moskvina by their side, along with their huge talent, it probably is looking clear skies ahead and gold medals for M/G, unless Sui/Han can come out loaded for bear with their usual passion, class, and bringing technical precision, which will be needed against M/G.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

This is the third competition in a row where M/G have set a TES record in the free skate. (Worlds - 78.96, WTT - 79.43, Finlandia Trophy - 80.63)

Good for them. Now, let's see them grow and mature, and get fp music worthy of the PCS scores they received.

 

[TT_Fin]

I just looked the pairs free highlights from local TV because I was at work during live. It is quite rare to have a pair representing Finland, so some trivia about Finnish pair: It is actually 3/4 Russian pair, while Mikhail is Russian, you might remember him skating with Ioulia Chtchetinina representing Switcherland, if I remember right. Milania also is half Russian, her mother is from Russia. Probably This might have Milania's first ever international competition as a pair and I am not sure if they have competed in any competition before in Russia, at least in Finland they have not. She skated in Finnish national team as a junior in singles some years ago and was quite promising but wanted to change to pairs. They have competed as pair since June 2021. Mlania was going to be as pair before with Australian Hector Giotopoulos Moore, but I think they never competed because of Milania's injury. Not bad to get EC minimum FS at first ever competition. Let's hope they can get SP minimuns later.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The pairs victory ceremony is up now live. Kudos to Ash/Timothy!!! Respect and kudos to T/M and M/G too.

 

[Ruthypegs]

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Apologies for the glitch at the start. My laptop is not working and I installed a recorder on my tablet but not running as smoothly.

Thank you! That was a good skate by these two - great that Britain has an up and coming pairs team. Both are from Sheffield (but train in Dundee I think). Luke was British Junior Champion (and trained at one point with Stephane Lambiel). Anastasia was British Junior Silver Medallist.

 

[ladyjane]

Watching late again...but I'll stick to one post and edit going along the competition.

That Finnish pair wasn't bad at all. Looks promising. And I just love it when pairs from unusual countries come up.
A bit of a mess with the SBS jump combination for the Belarus couple but better than their SP surely. A not so sparkly set of pirates though (or is that just me?).
I like those Brits! Sure, it needs work but they are enjoyable to watch (and the audience is so supportive)! I like the way their coach is talking to them as well.
That was a bit heartbreaking...Nika and Dmitry did not skate well. Two falls, a botched lift, and a programme that could be beautiful but doesn't really fit them. A pity.
Annika and Robert were also heartbreaking. I've seen them skate this programme so much better last season. And I do think this programme is fitting for them. They seem to support each other in this though. Perhaps the injury still having consequences.
Not so good for Dorota and Pedro today. They need to get those triples otherwise they'll be stuck in the low placements.
What's this with the botched lifts today? Nothing dangerous (thankfully!) but Elizaveta and Martin also had one. Still, this programme shows promise (although I would like to see some more upbeat programmes with the pairs).

Ice resurfacing. I'll get me a glass of .

Well Kirstin and Michael are back. Sure not perfect (a fall by Michael with the SBS jumps, one messy throw landing but also a good one as we are used to). Cute how they are calling to little Zoey.
As usual I'm impressed by Jessica and Brian. They really are a dance team with pairs elements. Great lifts, beautiful skating. Some problems with the jumps but they've been much worse on that score. Lovely.
Oh my...Ashley and Timothy really delivered today. Wow, wow, wow! Great skate - and those lines remain to die for. They were so happy afterwards, and rightly so!
Nice skate by Minerva Fabienne (best name of a skater ever) and Nolan, but the Americans really were better today. Some slightly messy landings, but no falls or anything. This programme will grow I think. They are pleased with the points. Never mind that they will drop 1 or 2 places.
Laura and Marco just get better and better. No, not as good as the American pairs yet but they are visibly growing as a pair. This skate was better than at Nebelhorn, and that one was better than at Lombardia. Really on the rise. Wonderful.
H'm. Is it my too high expectations or was that skate from Vanessa and Eric just not that good? Small mistakes (much better than at the Canadian Challenger a few weeks ago), but just not 'it'. I like their style a lot, but really needs some touches.
What can I say? Anastasia and Alexandr were superb once again. I don't even like their programme, but they skate it so well! And that seeming death spiral by Alexandr turning into a real one by Anastasia is just so innovative! Should go in the lead. Maybe not the best lines or the most moving, but definitely well skated!
Poor Evgenia and Vladimir. I keep on rooting for them (I always like underdogs) but they so often make mistakes. Is it the programme (which reminds me of Aljona and Bruno who had much better choreography)? I don't think so, it rather fits them. They'll still podium I suppose, but I hope they improve during the season.

 

[moonvine]

As far as I know there isn't one How did you get banned from VK

I’m banned from VK also. “Suspicious website activity” is what Google Translate says.

 

[moonvine]

Are you from Ukraine? As far as I know, VK is blocked only there.

I’m in USA and also banned.

 

[moonvine]

Watching late again...but I'll stick to one post and edit going along the competition.

That Finnish pair wasn't bad at all. Looks promising. And I just love it when pairs from unusual countries come up.

Where are you watching?

 

[ladyjane]

At home on one of the links provided at the beginning of this thread (one of the VK links which works quite well).