2021 Finlandia Trophy: Pairs Free Skate

[moonvine]

At home on one of the links provided at the beginning of this thread (one of the VK links which works quite well).

Unfortunately I am banned,

 

[ladyjane]

Unfortunately I am banned,

Oh, that's horrible. I got thrown out yesterday a few times - and had to switch to another link, also VK (VK provides various ones. The one today is without commentary), and luckily for me Jackie Wong also provided some links, but so far it is going fine today. Not doing any rewinding or anything. I hope you'll be able to find some of the skates on YouTube later!

 

[kwalker]

I just had a chance to catch up on some programs... KMT/MM what did you do to that beautiful program. It used to be one of my favourites but they added awkward music cuts, weird new instrumental parts and changed a bunch of choreo and element placements. It just doesn't flow as nicely as it did before. Super sad and I was excited when they announced they were bringing it back.

 

[lariko]

I could only find three s programs, but I am still not sure I understand why they cut in that news telecast music into M/G program. It is just so awkward…

 

[Skatesocs]

Really enjoyed Barquero/Zandron. James/Radford gel really well, but I don't like the LP.

 

[lariko]

Really enjoyed Barquero/Zandron. James/Radford gel really well, but I don't like the LP.

I am just so happy James skates again, and they do seem to work well together!

 

[ladyjane]

To me Barquero/Zandron are the hit of the season. Not for the medals at major competitions yet but on such a rise!

 

[moonvine]

Well my account is banned. Fortunately for me my IP is not. So I can watch from another browser or phone. So, I watched it. Was today International Botched Lift Day? Were botched lifts buy one get two free? I quite liked the Finnish team. Was happy for both Ash and Tim and Jessica and Brian. Hope this will give them some momentum! I hope Eric isn’t hurt too badly. That must have been so scary to look up during the death spiral and see a lot of blood.

Hey I had the top 5 correct in my predictions…just not in correct order.

 

[Ice Diva]

What an excellent competition. So happy with the James/Radford new pairing & really like their FS, which I see evolving and becoming quite spectacular. They gave me chills with their beautiful lines. James is a wonderful foil for Eric's posture, his arms - he's never looked so good.

 

[icybear]

Its a pity Russian fed has to shower Mishina/Galliamov all the pcs when they actually do have a decent Russian pair in T/M. We're gonna see a lot more pcs being showered at M/G this season. This season the judges will be trying their best to delude us into thinking that M/G are a veteran legendary pair team and highly worthy of the upmost pcs. Despite how juniorish they skate and terrible the music is.
Much the same way back in 2018 olympic season, Rus fed was totally really to blast Kolyada scores exponentially the moment he even skated partially clean. But he never managed to claim his Russian pcs goodies as much as they would have liked him to.

 

[ice_tulip]

Lovely program by T/M, with loads better music than M/G, but that's a given with the shlock horror that is M/G's music.

Please write to M/G someone and plead with them to get better music. M/G deserve better music, and so does the skating community, if we have to see the judges throwing points at them on PCS.

I remember that music from Yagudin's LP in1998 before he scrapped it for a new program before Worlds. He had a much better cut. I still remember the split jump with the cymbals after 24 yrs. Crazy.

The ending music is actually quite exciting. It could have been more effective had it not entered so abruptly. But this is the problem with lots of skating programs: crappy music and/or crappy music cuts. Skaters really need a musical advisor to help select and cut their music. As a professional musician myself with several music degrees, I've always dreamed of being a musical advisor to skaters, but seems skaters are dead set on just re-using and re-cycling the same stuff, when there are SO many better options available. It's so frustrating.

All that said, I actually was relieved their music was something different from the emo songs of many of their competitors. When so many pairs are skating to the same kind of music, it gets really boring.

Since when is it okay to reward a young Russian team with those kinds of crazy high points this early in the season for simply showing up, looking pretty and completing most of their elements (aside from sp fall and shakiness on a throw landing in the fp which isn't worth mentioning, but still they weren't perfect).

Moskvina, M/G are way too young to be saddled with this fp nonsense. And get a new sp too, please.

I think that's been going on for many years, sadly.

But overall, M/G deserved to win. They skated by far the best out of all the pairs. They were the obvious winners. Their elements were very strong, and they actually have spirit and passion when they skate unlike T/M. I was on the fence with M/G for a while but now I'm a fan. They are quite exciting to watch.

 

[La Rhumba]

Thank you! That was a good skate by these two - great that Britain has an up and coming pairs team. Both are from Sheffield (but train in Dundee I think). Luke was British Junior Champion (and trained at one point with Stephane Lambiel). Anastasia was British Junior Silver Medallist.

Well Ana has a very broad Dundee accent now if she ever came from Sheffield! Luke went to train with Lambiel and came away with a serious knee injury practising a 3A. He was out for a year and that was before the Pandemic. Ana trained in Canada for a while with Steven Adcock but they never competed before returning to the UK to partner Luke.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I remember that music from Yagudin's LP in1998 before he scrapped it for a new program before Worlds. He had a much better cut. I still remember the split jump with the cymbals after 24 yrs. Crazy.

The ending music is actually quite exciting. It could have been more effective had it not entered so abruptly. But this is the problem with lots of skating programs: crappy music and/or crappy music cuts. Skaters really need a musical advisor to help select and cut their music. As a professional musician myself with several music degrees, I've always dreamed of being a musical advisor to skaters, but seems skaters are dead set on just re-using and re-cycling the same stuff, when there are SO many better options available. It's so frustrating.

All that said, I actually was relieved their music was something different from the emo songs of many of their competitors. When so many pairs are skating to the same kind of music, it gets really boring.


I think that's been going on for many years, sadly.

But overall, M/G deserved to win. They skated by far the best out of all the pairs. They were the obvious winners. Their elements were very strong, and they actually have spirit and passion when they skate unlike T/M. I was on the fence with M/G for a while but now I'm a fan. They are quite exciting to watch.

M/G's music is awful. I didn't like the overly loud music of the second half. It hurt my ears and it had absolutely no connection to the first half. M/G were not even skating to the music. It was just playing in the background, detached from what they were doing on the ice. Sure, they are good technically, but they are not perfectly polished and experienced as young skaters. They are hugely talented, and Moskvina managed to harness their talent beautifully last season, and bring them out of their shells to connect better. But they still have a way to go for cohesive, expressive performances and programs. This FD is NOT it. Give them credit for their tech, but STOP with the overly high PCS just because they are defending champions. Make them work for their huge points. I do not care about "This is the way the sport is judged." The judges need to try and get it right, instead of over-rewarding just because they are talented Russians and defending World champions whom it is easy to slot into first, largely because the judges are like: "Okay, they are reliable, and they have proved us right in rewarding them last season."

I am not down with this faulty, political approach to scoring. I will tell the truth that I see, every time.

This music does nothing for M/G. It does NOT enhance who they are in any way, and the judges should absolutely NOT be rewarding this program aesthetically. The fact that they knee-jerk reward it because M/G are so talented and they have the est tech, is NOT a good reason. I disagree with this approach to scoring. I'm not talking about placements. I'm talking about accurate scoring, which in the end does matter. M/G's sp score was a bit high too, for the fall, IMO.

Obviously, Tarasova/Morosov are overall better skaters than M/G, because T/M are veterans with more experience. But T/M cannot afford to falter with their unnecessary mistakes. When T/M skate clean, they are the absolute class of the field. M/G are not yet fully in that category. They are still developing. Moskvina is a master at camouflaging weaknesses. M/G don't have many weaknesses, but for me, great tech does not trump the fact that M/G still need to work on polish, expression, and connection with each other. They are way too young to be skating to this type of schlock music.

Just because this type of scoring "has been going on for many years, sadly," doesn't mean I will accept it and bite my tongue from calling it out.

 

[skylark]

But overall, M/G deserved to win. They skated by far the best out of all the pairs. They were the obvious winners. Their elements were very strong, and they actually have spirit and passion when they skate unlike T/M. I was on the fence with M/G for a while but now I'm a fan. They are quite exciting to watch.

Absolutely! That's why I fell in love with Anastasia and Aleksandr last season, early on. Also, I really love it when I see brilliant technique in action. M/G have it in spades. I don't pay attention to the details of technique, but I know it when I see it, and it thrills me.

But they have so much more than brilliant technique! With spirit and passion, I'd add their boldness, their sparkle, and their heart. Total respect and support and engagement with each other. For me, it shows. That's their connection. Their connection is also their mutual dedication to the music and the program. There's not really a category of PC that rewards those qualities (except the 'Performance', but that category can also record plenty of other variables), but intangible that is so important.

When T/M skate clean, I admire and love their quality. But without spirit, without some display of emotion, it just isn't enough.

@BlissfulSynergy said:
they are not perfectly polished and experienced as young skaters. They are hugely talented, and Moskvina managed to harness their talent beautifully last season, and bring them out of their shells to connect better.

I disagree. Not with the "hugely talented" part , obviously, but with your statements giving Moskvina most of the credit. She polished them and there's nobody better to have in your corner. But. When I saw them in the 2019-20 NHK and the Trophy France (which they won), I already knew they were something very special and loved their qualities, especially their joyful spirit but also the way they dominated, in their first senior season. They were with coaches Velikova/Velikov then. There were 3 Russian pairs in the GPF that year, and M/G were the only ones who medaled at it. T/M didn't make the final that year, so that's one more comparison to add to the mix. You don't like the judges' behavior concerning M/G .... but probably they were watching back then too.

Yesterday you said M/G were 'lucky' last year. But they weren't. They were held down at least once (the team competition, at least) in favor of T/M and B/K. They kept on soldiering through and triumphed at the Russian cup final. I think that may be one reason the International judges saw their qualities (they were watching Russians like we all were) when they skated two perfect programs (all green lights in both SP & FS). Remember, the judges at Worlds took a long time in scoring the FS, and I doubt it was because they had to review elements. They were, IMO, doing what the judging protocols say for them to do ... making sure they gave the skaters credit for everything they did. I think that probably included carefully evaluating their PCS marks, and including intangibles like joy, confidence and boldness. They were obviously ready to give better PC to S/H, and perhaps M/G's skating, spirit, and passion had them re-evaluating what they already knew about M/G.

I don't think it's right to criticize the judging when they reward reputation and experience, and then also criticize the judging when it rewards quality on the day. It seems to me that judges have watched M/G long enough, and apparently some of them see them as I see them, as opposed to the way you see them. Our perceptions are subjective. So are everyone's.

This FD is NOT it.

As I said a few weeks ago. But even then, I said it might be developed over the season and they might well convince me. And it's already happening, for me; I can see their expression and their attentiveness to the music developing, when at the earlier test skates I could only see the technique. In the interview of M/G I linked in the World-Wide Pairs thread, they even mentioned they took critiques of the experts after those skates, and made changes in the program already.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Please @skylark, I know you uber love M/G. I love certain skaters too, but I try to be honest about the challenges facing my faves, and where they can improve. I never said M/G shouldn't be in first place. I said their scores are overly high, particularly for PCS.

There was never any question about who would win in pairs at Finlandia. Before the event began, we already knew it would come down to either T/M or M/G winning. At their best, without silly errors, T/M are the class of the field, despite not showing an emotional connection to each other and to the music.

 

[moonvine]

I remember that music from Yagudin's LP in1998 before he scrapped it for a new program before Worlds. He had a much better cut. I still remember the split jump with the cymbals after 24 yrs. Crazy.

The ending music is actually quite exciting. It could have been more effective had it not entered so abruptly. But this is the problem with lots of skating programs: crappy music and/or crappy music cuts. Skaters really need a musical advisor to help select and cut their music. As a professional musician myself with several music degrees, I've always dreamed of being a musical advisor to skaters, but seems skaters are dead set on just re-using and re-cycling the same stuff, when there are SO many better options available. It's so frustrating.

All that said, I actually was relieved their music was something different from the emo songs of many of their competitors. When so many pairs are skating to the same kind of music, it gets really boring.


I think that's been going on for many years, sadly.

But overall, M/G deserved to win. They skated by far the best out of all the pairs. They were the obvious winners. Their elements were very strong, and they actually have spirit and passion when they skate unlike T/M. I was on the fence with M/G for a while but now I'm a fan. They are quite exciting to watch.

I wish you could be a music advisor to them also. If I never hear one more Greatest Show/Showman, weird emo music, dreadful slowed down covers…