2021 Finlandia Trophy: Pairs Short Program | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2021 Finlandia Trophy: Pairs Short Program

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
Well, I've finished watching. I realise I've just posted one big monologue of experiences. I hope all these kind people who have made links available won't stop doing that because of this practice of mine. Because I do wish to watch tomorrow as well, and the official stream is still not available at a time that makes it possible for me to watch. Just jump over the posts if you're getting bored.

Thank you @La Rhumba for some info about the British team. That's very much appreciated!

Bye for now!
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
I am not such a great fan of pairs and had not really thought of attending the short, but then realized that this is the first time since that day at the Junior Worlds early March 2020 that I can watch world class figure skating live.

Off I went to Espoo and arrived at the rink just in time for Tarasova & Morozov. Though watched them from the wrong side (ie not from the judge's point of view). They were pretty good, though I still think they have great elements but what happens between them is totally meh (and I don't mean transitions, but the actual interpretation). The living doll theme is perfect for them - it's all in the first and last pose and they don't have to bother to tell a story or create characters in between, just concentrate on the elements.

The highlights were pretty much what it says in the results list. I was surprised at Mishina & Galliamov as I had thought the short was a bit weak based on screen. Their presence live on ice was much better and I actually enjoyed it. It was also cool to see Vanessa & Eric do well. And to see Eric move with the kind of softness and lyricalness that I have never seen him do before. The overall verdict was positive among the people I talked with. It was also so good to see Laura Barquero and Marco Zandron go for another good performance. She has hopefully finally found a good partner! It was confident and pretty smooth despite their relatively short time together.

E
 

brigit66

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 29, 2021
I am not such a great fan of pairs and had not really thought of attending the short, but then realized that this is the first time since that day at the Junior Worlds early March 2020 that I can watch world class figure skating live.

Off I went to Espoo and arrived at the rink just in time for Tarasova & Morozov. Though watched them from the wrong side (ie not from the judge's point of view). They were pretty good, though I still think they have great elements but what happens between them is totally meh (and I don't mean transitions, but the actual interpretation). The living doll theme is perfect for them - it's all in the first and last pose and they don't have to bother to tell a story or create characters in between, just concentrate on the elements.

The highlights were pretty much what it says in the results list. I was surprised at Mishina & Galliamov as I had thought the short was a bit weak based on screen. Their presence live on ice was much better and I actually enjoyed it. It was also cool to see Vanessa & Eric do well. And to see Eric move with the kind of softness and lyricalness that I have never seen him do before. The overall verdict was positive among the people I talked with. It was also so good to see Laura Barquero and Marco Zandron go for another good performance. She has hopefully finally found a good partner! It was confident and pretty smooth despite their relatively short time together.

E
Yes, their skating is very cold
 

peepsquick

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Yes, their skating is very cold
I am not such a great fan of pairs and had not really thought of attending the short, but then realized that this is the first time since that day at the Junior Worlds early March 2020 that I can watch world class figure skating live.

Off I went to Espoo and arrived at the rink just in time for Tarasova & Morozov. Though watched them from the wrong side (ie not from the judge's point of view). They were pretty good, though I still think they have great elements but what happens between them is totally meh (and I don't mean transitions, but the actual interpretation). The living doll theme is perfect for them - it's all in the first and last pose and they don't have to bother to tell a story or create characters in between, just concentrate on the elements.

The highlights were pretty much what it says in the results list. I was surprised at Mishina & Galliamov as I had thought the short was a bit weak based on screen. Their presence live on ice was much better and I actually enjoyed it. It was also cool to see Vanessa & Eric do well. And to see Eric move with the kind of softness and lyricalness that I have never seen him do before. The overall verdict was positive among the people I talked with. It was also so good to see Laura Barquero and Marco Zandron go for another good performance. She has hopefully finally found a good partner! It was confident and pretty smooth despite their relatively short time together.

E
What did you think of Ashley Cain-Gribble/Timothy LeDuc Live? any thoughts?
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Vanessa and Eric. I felt that I comprehended today what they desire and hope to do in their partnership. Firstly, their SP music. I like that version of 'Shiny Happy People' because it's not all bubbly and extroverted and excitement. It's like the singers and the skaters are saying, gently and with no judgment, just a smile, "hey, you can also be shiny, happy, gleaming and glad without a lot of external acting it out." There's another kind of happiness that's a glow rather than jumping up and down. I really felt that Vanessa and Eric are demonstrating that with their skating. To some people, it lacks excitement. To me, it shows that there are myriad ways of Being ... and of skating. I always felt that there was a lyrical skater inside Eric, and here he is. Vanessa's smile as they skate just shows that she's part and parcel of that interpretation. An equal partner. I really like it. It helped their interpretation that they seem to have calmed down about competing since last time out. Lovely skate!

Ashley and Timothy. I loved their skate today. They're getting there. They showed the drama, the power and the vibrancy of that gorgeous music; they expressed it beautifully. Someone wondered a few weeks back why they put their step sequence nearly at the end. I think they did it to showcase their lines, their unison, their glorious extension throughout. So that harmonious individuality of the two partners hits you at the end with an exquisite tone, sort of like a tuning fork ringing true. I was so happy to see how happy Ashley was at skating clean. Now they've accomplished this clean skate; they know they can do it, and they can develop their elements and their artistry as they go forward. It was so good to see Ashley land the throws and jumps the way she does in practice. It's a really great step forward. Their twist and lift are usually better than they were today; now that everything seems to be in place they can refine it all. I like skaters that pay attention to the interpretation from the start.

Jessica and Brian. It was very odd, my reaction. It may have been that I was rushed through it the first time I watched the SP today; I didn't like it and thought it didn't show their strengths very well; I wanted more of what I've seen them deliver before.. Second time I watched, a new reaction. I liked the edginess and felt their movements matched the music; I even liked the music in spite of the fact it wasn't the Beatles; I experienced it as an entirely different approach to 'Come Together.' J & B changed their opening 'sudden smiles;' instead they showed a bit of irony in their smiles or moderation; I liked it. Their lift was fabulous end to end; in fact I'd say it's the one I watched today that's most memorable to me. Their twist is second to none. Jumps are coming.

Kirsten and Michael. I've always been scared when they do their twist; and it was really scary today. Even more odd to see Kirsten fall on a throw; that's one of her strongest elements and usually so beautiful with a calm, confident skate-out. Now that I think of it, I didn't notice them wobbling on the lift, which I so often do. Or maybe I just didn't notice. One thing I have noticed is that if they underperform on the SP, Kirsten will not allow herself to mess up the FS. So I expect they'll bring it all together tomorrow.

I loved Minerva and Nolan's skate, love her smile; I find them charming. The music is a good vehicle for them.

Oh! and Anastasia and Aleksandr. Along with Ashley and Timothy, they're my darlings. Their FS was my favorite and I never found Esmerelda completely enchanting as some do. But what I do find enchanting is their skating. It's powerful and playful, beauteous and at other times angular. I haven't seen them in person, but I suspect they'd be like Hubbell/Donohue -- they make a strong, unique impression as soon as they skate out onto the ice. In an interview last week, they said last year they skated it as a piece of irony, but this year it's ... I can't remember the word they used, softer or more subtle. So I think it will be more communicative to audiences as it develops over the season. I even saw a glimpse of that in the middle of the skate, with Sasha's arms being more expressive than I'd noticed before. One of the things I love so much about this pair is that Sasha is such a diva, and Nastia is completely comfortable with that. She's the beautiful steadiness. Her throw landings are a thing of beauty. Too bad the SP requirement made them switch out the lift, which was my favorite part of their SP last year. But I think they'll be re-creating the whole thing in a way I'm looking forward to seeing. Last year they made big changes and small refinements throughout the season, so I imagine we'll see that again. (It was amusing to see Nastia be mad. Yes, she was mad at herself for falling on the jump. Tamara and Sasha both tried to smooth it over, but she wasn't having it. But she stayed completely classy.)

Evgenia and Vladimir. It's a pleasure to see them skate clean (with a two-foot landing on the throw). It's always great to see skaters actually show what they're able to do. I feel they've lost something, with the gain of the Eteri method (faster, or more frenetic, or something). But it's clear that it's working for them. It's great to have the resources of the team, and there's no doubt that Eteri is a great manager. I also feel that the in-betweens of the elements are simply dead. I think it's mostly because they don't project a clear connection between them. Not one that I can feel. There are only a few seconds, Charlie White says, between elements in pairs to show what the program is about. But we need that something.

This is very incomplete because I only was able to see about half the programs. Looking forward to the free skates!
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I was so happy to see how happy Ashley was at skating clean.
Yes, Ash should be happy, after the illness misfortune she experienced, just as the season was beginning to kick off. Ash and Timothy don't get enough credit for how hard they work together through thick and thin. It surely was not easy getting back into training with a positive attitude, and trying to get back to the level of sharpness they were at, along with keeping their confidence.

Skating at Autumn Classic was obviously so good for them to have been able to do, in order to see some competitive ice. With the small field there, coming in third was surely a huge boost for them. They seemed even more motivated to get back to work after AC, and the hard work they have put in definitely shows at Finlandia.

After some of the critical comments about Ash/Timothy's skate earlier in this thread, I went back to take a look at their performance (some of the programs are on YouTube, which if I had known that would be the case, I would have saved the money I spent on the livestream -- but then again sometimes it's nice to watch events happen live). Here's their sp:


I would have to say that Ash receiving a q on the sbs jump landing is a judge being harsh and looking for or expecting a mistake there, instead of just being neutral and seeing the program clearly, The jump was fully around, and certainly not under. That's some purposeful nitpicking, as was someone's comment that Ash/Timothy skated slow. They were skating to slow music, so they weren't going to be speeding around the ice. Plus, they aren't a 'slow' team. They have good flow and unison, superb lines, and good expression. Their 3-twist and lifts have improved and are more efficient. Plus, Ash is showing more precision and sharpness on the jump landings.

The only valid critique is that during the death spiral, Ash's head was not as low to the ground as textbook dictates. But seriously there shouldn't be huge points or huge GOE subtracted for that. Ash had lovely form in her position on the death spiral, with a very graceful arm extension. The claim of unsteadiness on Timothy's boot placement is also overdone nitpicking just because he had a problem once awhile back with a barely perceptible adjustment on his pivot foot at a U.S. Nat'ls competition. I enjoyed watching A&T's sp again, even more than the first time. I'm happy for them, and I hope they can come out tomorrow and remain confident and consistent.
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
An equal partner. I really like it. It helped their interpretation that they seem to have calmed down about competing since last time out. Lovely skate!
Yep, a nice outing by Vanessa & Eric. They do seem calmer, but then I think they felt some pressure at AC, with Meghan Duhamel commentating. I like Vanessa's pulled back hairstyle here. And the bright navy color of her costume finally shows up clearly with better lighting. I really like their smooth style and unison. But I will be curious to see their fp again, to judge whether it's different enough from the sp. I guess all that matters is if they skate clean or fairly clean. I think Skate Canada is very much behind them, and the judges also are giving them credit for their veteran status as former champions with other partners. They seemed happy and they had a positive vibe in the kiss 'n cry.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Yes, Ash should be happy, after the illness misfortune she experienced, just as the season was beginning to kick off. Ash and Timothy don't get enough credit for how hard they work together through thick and thin. It surely was not easy getting back into training with a positive attitude, and trying to get back to the level of sharpness they were at, along with keeping their confidence.

Skating at Autumn Classic was obviously so good for them to have been able to do, in order to see some competitive ice. With the small field there, coming in third was surely a huge boost for them. They seemed even more motivated to get back to work after AC, and the hard work they have put in definitely shows at Finlandia.

After some of the critical comments about Ash/Timothy's skate earlier in this thread, I went back to take a look at their performance (some of the programs are on YouTube, which if I had known that would be the case, I would have saved the money I spent on the livestream -- but then again sometimes it's nice to watch events happen live). Here's their sp:


I would have to say that Ash receiving a q on the sbs jump landing is a judge being harsh and looking for or expecting a mistake there, instead of just being neutral and seeing the program clearly, The jump was fully around, and certainly not under. That's some purposeful nitpicking, as was someone's comment that Ash/Timothy skated slow. They were skating to slow music, so they weren't going to be speeding around the ice. Plus, they aren't a 'slow' team. They have good flow and unison, superb lines, and good expression. Their 3-twist and lifts have improved and are more efficient. Plus, Ash is showing more precision and sharpness on the jump landings.

The only valid critique is that during the death spiral, Ash's head was not as low to the ground as textbook dictates. But seriously there shouldn't be huge points or huge GOE subtracted for that. Ash had lovely form in her position on the death spiral, with a very graceful arm extension. The claim of unsteadiness on Timothy's boot placement is also overdone nitpicking just because he had a problem once awhile back with a barely perceptible adjustment on his pivot foot at a U.S. Nat'ls competition. I enjoyed watching A&T's sp again, even more than the first time. I'm happy for them, and I hope they can come out tomorrow and remain confident and consistent.


I don’t understand the “skating slow” myself. The music is slow. How should they be skating?
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
Just catching up. I see M/G are at "same PCS as T/M even with a fall" level inflation now? :rolleye:
Yes, that's what I mean about automatic PCS for many Russian teams. While I think M/G are extremely talented, and have wowsa tech elements, they were never consistent until Moskvina took them under her wing last season. They were lucky to be at 2021 Worlds, due to a rough pre-season with illness issues. And then, they were lucky that other top teams at Worlds faltered, so that with clean performances, M/G were able to win. Meanwhile, they are still learning, and they are still rough around the edges. They have more work to do on projecting authentically, rather than as part of a cutesy sp, brought back for a second season.

With the fall by M/G, and the fact that expressing an emotional connection with each other is not their strong suit, I agree that their PCS is overly high, particularly for composition and performance. Even T/M are scored high in areas of PCS, when projecting an emotional connection is not their strong suit either. What helps T/M is their textbook gorgeous SS and tech quality when they are in the zone. With their veteran experience, T/M are more polished than M/G, who are still a young team needing further experience and development. But figure skating judges do this all the time. Once you have been anointed with a big win, and especially when you are a Russian pair, you are given error advantages, and a point spread which ensures podium placements, or high tier placements most of the time.

I didn't get a chance to see M/G's performance, so I didn't realize there was a fall. If they get 73+ with a fall, I suppose the judges feel M/G, had they not had a fall in their sp. should be right up there closely positioned with T/M at around 76+ or 77+.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
What did you think of Ashley Cain-Gribble/Timothy LeDuc Live? any thoughts?
I thought they were ok, but maybe nothing very glorious about them. Like T/M have usually top notch elements even though they are not that interesting to watch overall, but still the sheer quality is impressive. Ash & Tim made an effort to look big, they interpreted the music and executed the elements very well and the choreo was overall good, but for me it perhaps lacked that something special.

E
 

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
A well deserved lead for T/M but I’m surprised that M/G are so close to them on PCS. I would have expected a bigger gap. Still all to play for in the Free. For me the Russians were the class of field.

I’m hugely impressed with the Spanish, they seem to get better with each performance. I liked her with Maestu but this another level, potentially a Top 5 in Europe, maybe Top 10 in the World. Looking forward to seeing them develop. It’d be great to see them on the podium.

I’m a big fan of CG/L and this short plays to all their strengths. I love the sync of their arms. I hope they make the Olympics but it won’t be easy in a deep US field. I find the style of MT/M very sickly sweet, not for me. The twist was poor. I’m always nervous when he lifts her I just think he is going to drop her. I thought the DS looked odd but it got good GOE.

I expect lots of movement in the free. I wonder who’ll be the Top Canadian & US teams.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I thought they were ok, but maybe nothing very glorious about them. Like T/M have usually top notch elements even though they are not that interesting to watch overall, but still the sheer quality is impressive. Ash & Tim made an effort to look big, they interpreted the music and executed the elements very well and the choreo was overall good, but for me it perhaps lacked that something special.

E
I think it's the skating skill and the outward performance. They're just not all that fast (compared to the top teams) nor do they have particularly amazing edges, and they don't really project as well as some others. The choreography does the work for them in the steps, though, so at least there's that.
 

ice_tulip

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
I'm eager to see how the U.S. teams will fare. I always love seeing Calalang/Johnson. They always shine with their costumes. And I like that they are bringing back their last season's fp, with their fun and edgy sp this season to rock music. I have liked what I've seen of Ash/TIm's costumes this season, except I wish they would have kept their streamlined black jumpsuits we saw in the OIP clip of their sp. The reason they didn't I suppose is because they are using jumpsuits for their W.E. fp,* which worked so well for them in 2018-2019 season.

I haven't looked up scores for SP and was trying to watch the SPs in order without spoilers... I got up to Calalang and Johnson and can't find their SP on YouTube, and I see that we can't pay for on-demand coverage, just live coverage which obviously isn't possible after the fact. I'm crushed. I was most excited to see the Americans and while I'm glad I saw C/L, my #1 team to watch was C/J. Grrrrrrr! Do you know of anywhere to see C/J's Finlandia performance?
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I haven't looked up scores for SP and was trying to watch the SPs in order without spoilers... I got up to Calalang and Johnson and can't find their SP on YouTube, and I see that we can't pay for on-demand coverage, just live coverage which obviously isn't possible after the fact. I'm crushed. I was most excited to see the Americans and while I'm glad I saw C/L, my #1 team to watch was C/J. Grrrrrrr! Do you know of anywhere to see C/J's Finlandia performance?
This is all I've been able to find on YouTube at the moment, which are highlights of men's and pairs sp. There also should be some individual sp programs posted on YouTube, but I didn't see C/J's short program posted separately:

Ash/Timothy sp:

Ash/Timothy fp:

The only problem C/J had in the sp was that Brian doubled the jumping pass, otherwise they skated great. The judges didn't give them much credit for their otherwise great qualities, I guess because C/J don't have any stature or enough political backing to be given credit for just how good they are, aside from their weakness on jumping passes.

It looks like the judges did take into consideration in the fp that C/J have better qualities than some of the other mid-tier skaters at Finlandia, like Hase/Seegert and the new team of Barquero/Zandon. I will take my additional comments on the fp to the fp thread...
 
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