2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Free Skate | Page 39 | Golden Skate

2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Free Skate

Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Country
Norway
So now I had some time to read the protocols and i´m wondering if something is seriously wrong with my eyes. As I said earlier I noticed Josefins TES was a bit low as she has upgraded har tech a little. She is one of few skaters who got UR for several jumps. I think it´s something about her jumping technique, she is not a big jumper and rotates really fast, so it can be hard to tell. I would check those jumps because it is hard to decide in real time because of her quick rotation. But I watched her programs again and consider how they turned the blind eye on other skaters, i´m surprised they gave her 3 UR. The one on the 2A is clear though. But what bothers me the most is that Josefin got downgraded her 3T which I think is really really harsh. That is a lot of points lost. At best I would say it´s only UR not downgraded, but i´m no expert, but there was nothing clear about that jump being downgraded IMO.

What is the worst is if you look at Jenni Saarinens score. She didn´t get any UR at all, not even for the falls. She got a q on the lutz fall. But the first fall on the flip wasn´t called at all. Which is weird because the reason she did fall was because she did not rotate fully and her skates hit the ice before she even was done rotating. Isn´t that a clear UR or even downgrade? She did not get a lot of points for the lutz because the judges rightfully gave her -5 GOE, but I can not understand how that jump was anything near rotated :scratch2: Didn´t they want to call it because she already got a big minus for the jump? It is just so weird, considering Josefins 3T got downgraded.

For me it seems the judges don´t like Josefins jumping because she is not a big jumper, unlike Jenny who really has nice and huge jumps. But please use the judging system correctly, they have the tools - so no matter big or small jumps they should judge them similar. UR doesn´t go away just because you have big jumps.

I bet there is a lot of other questionable things with other scores as well, but Josefins TES score really upset me.

I might be wrong also, i´m no judge and all I learned about figure skating and jumping is by watching so maybe there is things I don´t understand about UR.
 
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anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
I'm genuinely curious...aside from transitions and skating skills, where exactly is Liza lacking in PCS? Her interpretation and performance would get 10s from me. And her choreography, even though it's not crammed, is appropriate to the style of the music.

Transitions and Skating skills are 2/5 of PCS. Like sorry Liza doesn't do two second spirals and 60 leg kicks between jumps but the idea she should get the lowest PCS of everyone ever is just stupid.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
The issue is, she probably can't sell anything else so well. That's her. She won't get the public behind her with another style.
And shock horror people ENJOY that style.

This really angers me. Are people are seriously suggesting that seeing 20 skaters skating the exact same style in a row is exciting?

That she's not a "proper" Russian skater because she doesn't do Danil-style, Rippon crammed programs?

Setting aside individuality, if a skater wants to skate to "The Chicken Dance" they can, it's them putting the work in, it's THEIR talent, it's THEIR time. (Some fans are so entitled 😠) Liza's senior career is longer than any other current top Russian skater, why are HER programs the not-Russian ones?!
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
And shock horror people ENJOY that style.

This really angers me. Are people are seriously suggesting that seeing 20 skaters skating the exact same style in a row is exciting?

That she's not a "proper" Russian skater because she doesn't do Danil-style, Rippon crammed programs?

Setting aside individuality, if a skater wants to skate to "The Chicken Dance" they can, it's them putting the work in, it's THEIR talent, it's THEIR time. (Some fans are so entitled 😠) Liza's senior career is longer than any other current top Russian skater, why are HER programs the not-Russian ones?!
Are you infuriated about my post or the post i responded to?

Because my post was very positive about Liza's program, if it wasn't clear.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
After the interesting SP yesterday, I was reminded rather harshly that the free skate shows what each skater is really made of. Of course, I try to think positively that it is still early in the season and the field was quite wildly mixed. The rink was pleasantly full, but not absolutely packed, the audience ready to appreciate skating after such a long break. I was happy to find a good seat behind the judges and the seats reserved for off duty judges were occupied by a couple of them. I wish I could have videoed their reactions to the skaters - they were living with the good and bad just like any FS lover does. Anyone who thinks judges are evil nitpickers would have been proven wrong by the collective sigh of relief when Livia Kaiser finished her last spin just at the nick of time and did not get the time penalty!

The two first groups were perhaps not the most memorable experiences, but Oona Ounasvuori skated fine to save her self esteem after the dismal SP yesterday. Sofia Frank was actually quite nice in both programs despite the tech problems.

The third group began with one of my main events of the evening, Josefin Taljegård's Joker. I had liked it a lot on camera from the Worlds and was curious to see how it would work live. I must say her need for fairly long set-ups for the jumps and lack of performance during them flattened the live experience considerably. I watched this skate on YT and some of the nuance is lost from the stands. But the choreo sequence to Gary Glitter is pure gold. Everything happens to the rhythm and her interpretation is in every way true, nothing artificial about her. And the look on her face at the end position... Just brilliant!! Delighted to see that the judges went with her and gave a distinctly higher scores for the relevant PCS categories.

Laura Karhunen messed up royally, but hope this is a learning experience to help her along in the future. Lindsay van Zundert had a lovely dress IMO, but I have no idea what the program was supposed to be about with the phones and all. Ditto for Natasha McKay without the dress compliment. I read somewhere that Kailani Crane has been criticized for using Gangsta's Paradise when she has little to do with where that song came from. Watching her grin happily whilst doing the rap part with lyrics makes me kind of agree with her critics. In the movie Blaze of Glory one of the pair teams has a program with "ghetto music with a strong social message" performed with shiny blingy costumes and wide grins and I was kind of reminded of that.

In the fourth group, the back to back Rain, In Your Black Eyes programs failed to impress. Jenni Saarinen had a great warm-up, I can't remember her even putting a foot wrong and then the program happens. I also wonder how did they get that cardboard box sound into her music. Eva-Lotta Kiibus concentrated on getting the jumps done and achieved that, but the program was painfully dull and uneventful apart from the painfully embarrassing voiceovers with flatlining and all. Why, Benoit????

The last group started with Karen Chen energetically flailing her arms and me not being very impressed with her. The spirals were great, but otherwise just no. I wished something edgier and different for Loena Hendrickx after the short, but am quite not sure if the Egyptian/oriental/or was it Indian soundtrack was quite that. If Karen had busy arms, then Loena upped the actity to a whole new level. More is hardly ever really more, it is just bad. At least Loena's jumps were deemed squeaky clean by the tech panel without any flags. Anastasiia Gubanova stopped the arms race by calm and confident gestures at roughly the right moments. She does have to do long set-ups for the jumps which I really don't like plus she is not an actress. But hope she will get to have better programs in the future.

Kamila Valieva's choice (or rather her team's choice apparently) to keep the Bolero from last season was not my favorite idea and seeing it live really made it clear why. She skates well, has good quality, the jumps worked for the most part today, but NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was done to music. Not even when she stood in one place and dis some arm moves. The smile glued to her face in the latter part was a welcome change to her usually worried expression, but it also reminded me painfully of Carolina Kostner whose 2013-4 Bolero was just in every way superior as a choreography and interpretation of the music.

My biggest hearbreak in a very long time was Alena Kostornaia's empty Four Seasons. She sleepwalked through it, though if a program has nothing in it for her to perform and work on, it is tough to do anything else. Is this some kind of revenge by her coaches for her leaving? I have really no words at what I feel about how her absolutely brilliant talent is apparently just thrown away and wasted.

It was great to see that Tuktamysheva did not go down without a fight. This program reminds me of what she did in 2014-5 though this is way tackier than that. But she sold it very well and got most of the tech content done.

Did not stay for the ceremonies.

E
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
Are you infuriated about my post or the post i responded to?

Because my post was very positive about Liza's program, if it wasn't clear.
The post you responded to and others like it.

The "This program isn't proper figure skating" and "This music isn't proper figure skating" so "this skater is an embarrassment" are like a red flag to a bull to me.

Like I can't even imagine having the GALL to demand skaters are only allowed to skate to what I want them to and how I want them to.

A preference is one thing, dismissing an entire skater on that basis, calling them names, degrading their abilities is another.

As mentioned previously I don't like the way Kamila skates, but she does so I'm not going to demand she skate to AC/DC and wear a unitard because I think that would be awesome.
 

Bookseller

Final Flight
Joined
May 28, 2018
Country
United-States
After the interesting SP yesterday, I was reminded rather harshly that the free skate shows what each skater is really made of. Of course, I try to think positively that it is still early in the season and the field was quite wildly mixed. The rink was pleasantly full, but not absolutely packed, the audience ready to appreciate skating after such a long break. I was happy to find a good seat behind the judges and the seats reserved for off duty judges were occupied by a couple of them. I wish I could have videoed their reactions to the skaters - they were living with the good and bad just like any FS lover does. Anyone who thinks judges are evil nitpickers would have been proven wrong by the collective sigh of relief when Livia Kaiser finished her last spin just at the nick of time and did not get the time penalty!

The two first groups were perhaps not the most memorable experiences, but Oona Ounasvuori skated fine to save her self esteem after the dismal SP yesterday. Sofia Frank was actually quite nice in both programs despite the tech problems.

The third group began with one of my main events of the evening, Josefin Taljegård's Joker. I had liked it a lot on camera from the Worlds and was curious to see how it would work live. I must say her need for fairly long set-ups for the jumps and lack of performance during them flattened the live experience considerably. I watched this skate on YT and some of the nuance is lost from the stands. But the choreo sequence to Gary Glitter is pure gold. Everything happens to the rhythm and her interpretation is in every way true, nothing artificial about her. And the look on her face at the end position... Just brilliant!! Delighted to see that the judges went with her and gave a distinctly higher scores for the relevant PCS categories.

Laura Karhunen messed up royally, but hope this is a learning experience to help her along in the future. Lindsay van Zundert had a lovely dress IMO, but I have no idea what the program was supposed to be about with the phones and all. Ditto for Natasha McKay without the dress compliment. I read somewhere that Kailani Crane has been criticized for using Gangsta's Paradise when she has little to do with where that song came from. Watching her grin happily whilst doing the rap part with lyrics makes me kind of agree with her critics. In the movie Blaze of Glory one of the pair teams has a program with "ghetto music with a strong social message" performed with shiny blingy costumes and wide grins and I was kind of reminded of that.

In the fourth group, the back to back Rain, In Your Black Eyes programs failed to impress. Jenni Saarinen had a great warm-up, I can't remember her even putting a foot wrong and then the program happens. I also wonder how did they get that cardboard box sound into her music. Eva-Lotta Kiibus concentrated on getting the jumps done and achieved that, but the program was painfully dull and uneventful apart from the painfully embarrassing voiceovers with flatlining and all. Why, Benoit????

The last group started with Karen Chen energetically flailing her arms and me not being very impressed with her. The spirals were great, but otherwise just no. I wished something edgier and different for Loena Hendrickx after the short, but am quite not sure if the Egyptian/oriental/or was it Indian soundtrack was quite that. If Karen had busy arms, then Loena upped the actity to a whole new level. More is hardly ever really more, it is just bad. At least Loena's jumps were deemed squeaky clean by the tech panel without any flags. Anastasiia Gubanova stopped the arms race by calm and confident gestures at roughly the right moments. She does have to do long set-ups for the jumps which I really don't like plus she is not an actress. But hope she will get to have better programs in the future.

Kamila Valieva's choice (or rather her team's choice apparently) to keep the Bolero from last season was not my favorite idea and seeing it live really made it clear why. She skates well, has good quality, the jumps worked for the most part today, but NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was done to music. Not even when she stood in one place and dis some arm moves. The smile glued to her face in the latter part was a welcome change to her usually worried expression, but it also reminded me painfully of Carolina Kostner whose 2013-4 Bolero was just in every way superior as a choreography and interpretation of the music.

My biggest hearbreak in a very long time was Alena Kostornaia's empty Four Seasons. She sleepwalked through it, though if a program has nothing in it for her to perform and work on, it is tough to do anything else. Is this some kind of revenge by her coaches for her leaving? I have really no words at what I feel about how her absolutely brilliant talent is apparently just thrown away and wasted.

It was great to see that Tuktamysheva did not go down without a fight. This program reminds me of what she did in 2014-5 though this is way tackier than that. But she sold it very well and got most of the tech content done.

Did not stay for the ceremonies.

E
Great report! Thanks! My first thought watching Karen was exactly that, she needs to work on her arms. Loena does also. And I like them both. I think Loena is wonderful. But the arms in that FS need improving. I also am not moved by Kamila's Bolero. It's just a lot of action with no point of view other than collecting points to win. And Alena's FS was empty and not suitable for such a beautiful, talented skater. Anastasia was lovely, but the program says nothing. Liza is always fun. Happy to see her land the 3As and kudos to her for sticking to her style. The choreo was emptier than it should be. She can do more than that. But it paid off.
 

alexocfp

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
The post you responded to and others like it.

The "This program isn't proper figure skating" and "This music isn't proper figure skating" so "this skater is an embarrassment" are like a red flag to a bull to me.

Like I can't even imagine having the GALL to demand skaters are only allowed to skate to what I want them to and how I want them to.

A preference is one thing, dismissing an entire skater on that basis, calling them names, degrading their abilities is another.

As mentioned previously I don't like the way Kamila skates, but she does so I'm not going to demand she skate to AC/DC and wear a unitard because I think that would be awesome.
I actually like the Liza detractors. We can rub it in more when she makes, and medals, in the Olympics. HAHA
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I am very upset by Liza's program. This is not a program of a top Russian figure skater. And the fact that people here write familiar compliments like "delightfully trashy", "wonderful trashy" - it's upsetting me even more. In my view of the right world, Russian figure skaters do not skate "trashy programs". Not delightfull not wonderful, not at all. So let your figure skaters skate trash programs, if you like such programs so much.
Why are you upset? She performed it, unlike most of the other, mostly stone-faced skaters. And points are the name of game, not delight or wonder. She did two triple axels, on in combination. She was 15 points above the 3rd place finisher. She was a deserving silver medalist.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
The third group began with one of my main events of the evening, Josefin Taljegård's Joker. I had liked it a lot on camera from the Worlds and was curious to see how it would work live. I must say her need for fairly long set-ups for the jumps and lack of performance during them flattened the live experience considerably. I watched this skate on YT and some of the nuance is lost from the stands. But the choreo sequence to Gary Glitter is pure gold. Everything happens to the rhythm and her interpretation is in every way true, nothing artificial about her. And the look on her face at the end position... Just brilliant!! Delighted to see that the judges went with her and gave a distinctly higher scores for the relevant PCS categories.
Her jumps aren't the strength, it's the unexpected choreo and interpretation (and performance, and some transitions when she does them). Like that expression at the end you mention. Some of the LP sags due to the jump set ups and jump quality itself, but it's okay, she more than makes up for it, for me.
 

withwings

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
.

My biggest heartbreak in a very long time was Alena Kostornaia's empty Four Seasons. She sleepwalked through it, though if a program has nothing in it for her to perform and work on, it is tough to do anything else. Is this some kind of revenge by her coaches for her leaving? I have really no words at what I feel about how her absolutely brilliant talent is apparently just thrown away

E

Exactly my thoughts.
Kostornaya is too brilliant to be in Eteri's factory.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Few thoughts on the event.

Overall the level was really high for a challenger event, skaters were mostly in good shape.

Valieva: She looked great here in the free especially, not a fan of the programs although the bolero is growing on me, the SP is mostly recycled choreography. I didn't expect her to be this ready with the quads already, and she also looked very surprised by the end of the program. Going into the Olympics she's the clear favourite, has been for a good year or more at this point, it's her to lose it.
The costumes i'd say not good enough for an Olympic moment.
PS: Kind of awkward to see That doctor even in the KnC, it's already extremely cringy that this doctor travels with all Eteri students, it doesn't happen with any other Fed, even more to see him in the position that should be for the coaches and choreographers.

Tuktamysheva: also looked at her best shape here which is a positive sign, with Liza you can tell from the early competitions if this is her season or not. The programs are good for her, she's not the most artistic skater by any means but at least they're entertaining. The free is very much "wiggle and pose".

Kostornaya: loud music but skating is slow and the choreo is kinda empty. The choice could be good but it was very much skating through the music here, she doesn't own it yet. She didn't look as ready as some of the others, good fight in the second half but frankly i had Gubanova and Hendrickx in front of her.

Hendrickx: i like her a lot, has been one of my favs for the past 2-3 seasons, very expressive skater with great musicality and strong on the jumps. I think her last year's Fever FS was better than this and -1 from me for not skating with the final costume (this is her old tango dress, didn't fit the theme at all)

Gubanova: The personal favourite of the event. Great to see her back, i like both her programs for this season and i thought she should have won the bronze here. She was cleaner than Kostornaya and Hendrickx, and harshly underscored in the components.



I mean they did her real dirty in Russia too for years to help Tutberidze skaters or Konstantinova.
This is the post of the day. Wow. Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed and most importantly fair comments. Especially about the scoring.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Yes, I also think that Frolova should rethink that international competition. It would be like throwing away two years if she competes. She has no chance anyway to reach Europeans, Worlds and the Olympics, and it seems she will never reach the GPs either, so the only option really is to change country. But I guess there could be some money issues, and she just can't do it.
After Nastia and Maria I don't think the fed is going to want to let let a lot more girls get away
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
As I said earlier, I too think this program is beneath her. But who I am to say? If she enjoys it, and she seems to, it’s fine.
Problem for me is not her performance quality, when it was actually good (which I don't think it is anymore, but beside the point I'll be making). It's that she's outright going for stereotypical, and somewhat offensive choreography, at least for me. It is not worthy of praise because she "enjoys it", much like that phone call in Med's 9/11 program. Definitely not on the level of that abhorrent Domnina/Shabalin Aboriginal OD, but still not something I want on the Olympic stage (same goes for that "Japanese" LP she did last season, had she brought it back). It's not even offensive in a "ooh I made you think!" way some obnoxious artists go for, just the wrong kind.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Problem for me is not her performance quality, when it was actually good (which I don't think it is anymore, but beside the point I'll be making). It's that she's outright going for stereotypical, and somewhat offensive choreography, at least for me. It is not worthy of praise because she "enjoys it", much like that phone call in Med's 9/11 program. Definitely not on the level of that abhorrent Domnina/Shabalin Aboriginal OD, but still not something I want on the Olympic stage (same goes for that "Japanese" LP she did last season, had she brought it back). It's not even offensive in a "ooh I made you think!" way some obnoxious artists go for, just the wrong kind.
Offensive to who? Stereotypical yes. All that armography is so predictable.
But if her program is too sensual may i say that Kostner skated on bolero in a basically bikini (we were seeing her belly button like with Tuktamysheva) and did extremely suggestive moves. Seems like no one had a problem with that and some even thought she was classy.
Anyway, nothing new. She is promoting that image since that Britney spears EX program in which she had a bra. That style isn't for everyone obviously.

Seems like with age, skaters take the route of sexy/sensual. They suddenly show more skin and skate more suggestive programs. Like Medvedeva version Orser season 1 and her surprising training gear or one of the EX she skated that season (the one which was like Osmond's in the olympic season).
Maybe because this sport and society in general wants to see girls be more mature from a certain age. So it helps for image marketing to look like that.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
All that armography is so predictable.
I love armography though, surely I'm not the only one? Although I often feel that way.

To me there's nothing worse than a skater that doesn't consider their arms. I know Dick Button hated armography with a passion, but in his day skaters had airplane arms and looked as stiff as boards.

Not sure what people's excuses these days are.

Also Liza is an adult, it's one thing when Alina Z did that tiger suit exhibition at 15 which was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, I was cringing from second hand embarrassment, but if a nearly 25 year old wants to show her belly button I don't think that should be declared offensive and a crime.

ETA: To me armography doesn't just mean Egyptian hands or whatever. She's a junior but look how Sofia Murareva uses her arms in her programs. It's beautiful.
 
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