The armography looks better when your skates do the job too.I love armography though, surely I'm not the only one? Although I often feel that way.
To me there's nothing worse than a skater that doesn't consider their arms. I know Dick Button hated armography with a passion, but in his day skaters had airplane arms and looked as stiff as boards.
Not sure what people's excuses these days are.
Also Liza is an adult, it's one thing when Alina Z did that tiger suit exhibition at 15 which was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, I was cringing from second hand embarrassment, but if a nearly 25 year old wants to show her belly button I don't think that should be declared offensive and a crime.
ETA: To me armography doesn't just mean Egyptian hands or whatever. She's a junior but look how Sofia Murareva uses her arms in her programs. It's beautiful.
But is it inappropriate? And if so why? Is it because (general) you has a fixed idea of what a "proper" woman should wear? Are (general) you as offended by Yuzu's "Let Me Entertain You" leather extravaganza or Guillaume Cizeron's deep V-necks?You an be 25 and wearing something inappropriate for some people. Age don't change the outfit.
Eh, I don't see comments about her outfit on here. As long as it's fine with the rules, it will be fine. People love that Chock Snake dance, so it's not about sexuality either. If people are reacting to it a certain way, then it must be something else, or we are focusing on singular comments which don't make an entire narrative. Personally I'd point to the parody she's doing, and her lacking skating quality.You an be 25 and wearing something inappropriate for some people. Age doesn't change the outfit.
Karen maybe the best complete skater if she did not underrotate her jumps. She is most like Michelle Kwan, Lu Chen, Jill Trenary, Caryn Kadavy,, Kristi Yamaguchi - pretty, feminine skating.God I love Karen’s program so much. It suits her beautifully.
She always takes these moments to feel her music.
It was gorgeous, what are rotations I don’t know them! I only know Karen Chen goddess of spirals and layback spins!
You like calling names don't you? And searching where there is not.But is it inappropriate? And if so why? Is it because (general) you has a fixed idea of what a "proper" woman should wear? Are (general) you as offended by Yuzu's "Let Me Entertain You" leather extravaganza or Guillaume Cizeron's deep V-necks?
If so that's fine, because you're consistent, but if not, (general) you might need to consider whether you're being sexist.
Her jumps aren't the strength, it's the unexpected choreo and interpretation (and performance, and some transitions when she does them). Like that expression at the end you mention. Some of the LP sags due to the jump set ups and jump quality itself, but it's okay, she more than makes up for it, for me.
Maybe take your own advice next time. I CLEARLY stated that it was a (general) you.You like calling names don't you? And searching where there is not.
I was explaining a general point of view that can exist, not even directly in relation with Liza. And i didn't say i had an issue with her outfit, i said that some people can have, because of their taste.
Litteraly i wasn't even the one who questioned her program in first, i just replied. But you likes making things personal. I better hold my mouth, or rather my fingers, next time.
Yes you are.Maybe take your own advice next time. I CLEARLY stated that it was a (general) you.
But thanks for the patronising gif, much appreciated.
And don't bother holding back you fingers. I will since I'm so obviously wrong.
Because it is a women's event and she does not look like a woman. And I don't believe in forcing young girls to do loads of quads just to rack up points. For me, something characterful and artistic is missing from the performance.Where on earth should she get more points??
Her PCS are HIGH here. And as for technical ability how can you say that positively for Liza and negatively for Kamila? Bit of a double standard...
As for the skinny comment...I don't even feel like justifying that with comment. What on earth does anyone's body have to do with anything??
Nice idea. Kamila skating to AC/DC in a unitard would be an improvement imo.As mentioned previously I don't like the way Kamila skates, but she does so I'm not going to demand she skate to AC/DC and wear a unitard because I think that would be awesome.
My problem isn't necessarily the cliche arm movements and choreography. It's that these body movements are reduced to the stereotype of exaggerated sexuality that they often are in popular (western) culture. So it's more that Tuktamysheva's team seems to have thought "Tukt is sexy and an adult! Let's make her do Egyptian arms and body rolls to emphasise that!". There have been better "Middle Eastern" themed programs that avoided that, while still keeping the stereotypical moves, like Kwan's Salome, and Grishuk/Platov's Feeling Begins. Kwan's Feeling Begins didn't even have such stereotypical moves These are all "sexual" programs too that didn't fall into that cliche (Kwan's Salome means there was Dance of the Seven Veils in it, and I'm frankly happy they didn't make her do anything like that, she was 15!). I think you'll be able to get what I'm trying to write here, but I'm not sure I made it clear. Tukt = sexy so do egyptian arms. The rest = middle eastern theme/concept that happened to portray some sexuality even if it contained some egyptian arms.Returning to Tuk, the theme as possibly culturally offensive/inappropriate is perhaps an even more difficult question. Lots of popular themes are fairly questionable either culturally or because of the storyline. I don't really know how these could be done in an accetable way in skating which operates very much with stereotypes and cliched imagery and characters.
I think I get your point but I have a question - is this related to how you feel about Tuk in general? Would you think it not good if someone else took the same route? I think she can use sexy as her selling point and as something that sets her apart from the 15- to 17-year-olds. She also seems perfectly ok with it, she does not seem uncomfortable doing it. Though that might be a risk in front of the judges who might also not like the choice. This program is combined to a very different SP which was just great showing that she is able to pull off that kind of melancholy longing and it managed to avoid her mannerisms. Tuk has in my opinion a very limited repertoire of performance skills, so she has to use what she has, and if it is sex, then be it. Most skaters are in general strictly one trick ponies in what they can do performance-wise, there are not that many Josefin Taljegårds out there...If you put the time to learn your material, then no problem. If Tuktamysheva had learned to actually belly dance, then fine. But she didn't. And if she had, she'd have known it's not supposed to be some sexy dance anyway.
I think I didn't separate them well enough. So here it is - Tuktamysheva wants to do middle eastern and be sexy to separate herself from 15 year olds? Do a fully baked choreography, like in Shcheherezade; it's harder and actual choreography instead of what she's doing. Tuktamysheva just wants to be sexy? Don't use this stereotypical nonsense; goes for everyone, not just her (her tangos hilariously tend to have little in terms of sex appeal and passion usually). Tuktamysheva wants to do middle eastern? Still wish she would do actual choreography and that goes for everyone; but somewhat more acceptable for me since it's not the full assault of offensive stereotypes, for small mercies.I think I get your point but I have a question - is this related to how you feel about Tuk in general? Would you think it not good if someone else took the same route? I think she can use sexy as her selling point and as something that sets her apart from the 15- to 17-year-olds.
Non-sexy still gotta go. Still based on stunted thinking and lack of research. As said, do your research, learn the actual moves. But at least not going for the fully fledged offense.The non-sexy "Middle-Eastern" programs are still based on the same stereotypical movement, so it does not really matter IMO if you add the sexy aspect to it. The common base is enough to make them all equally suspicious.
Agree that she's a one trick pony with little in terms of repertoire. She's being scored as if she's one of the best skaters ever in terms of PCS, which is a joke. Sex appeal is fine in order to gain that advantage is fine. But what she's doing takes little effort, is plain bad - yet not scored as such, and the judges seem to think it's "maturity". At least try to learn and do something better than this, but this is all she's been doing for multiple seasons (while giving interviews about "improvements"). Makes a farce of the effort that others are putting in.