2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Short Program | Page 34 | Golden Skate

2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Short Program

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
What a great short program for the women that was!:clap:

I feel that Chen and Saarinen might have been a bit overscored, but that's just me.

It will be very exciting tomorrow.

And yay! Gubanova 4th! I never thought that was possible.
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
But this is already marking her within the highest possible "Platinum" category, which is arguably reserved for senior world or Olympic champions, not someone in her first international senior competition. So let's put her into "Diamond" for now, shall we? Still her PCS are within bounds, but pretty close to the ceiling.
If the judges continue like that, they will run out of PCS points for Kami when the Olympics come around...

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Actually I believe you're wrong here. The categories are not reserved for level of skater - it's level of skate. So, 9.75 and 9.5. Also, even if you do use the table as you're interpreting it, Kamila would be considered a "platinum" skater. She's Russia's (at worst) number 2 (potentially number 1) and the reigning World Junior Champion. Remember also that the 3A started with high PCS after junior and Alina did before them.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
OK, I've spent with this much more time with different things than those I wanted to pay attention. Let's hope everything will be fine tomorrow with a place to enjoy that instead of doing calculations :biggrin:
 
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chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Really Liza with PCS better or close PCS to Alena and Kamila? Yes the technical is undeniable but Liza skates so slow with very little transitions and very slow spins.
For all the complaints about Kamila's PCS. Liza's really don't make sense. So anyone saying if Kamila was any other skater her PCS would be lower..the strength of the Russian federation isn't limited to just Kamila.

That said, aaaah. Liza winning the SP makes me so happy!
 

CrazyKittenLady

Rooting for Team Moskvich 💙
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Country
Austria
Hey, that's my line from this post, should I demand a copyright? :biggrin:

The thig is you on one side condemn it by arguing about Kamila's score being too high because of the status of an "olympic medal contender", on the other hand you demand it being lower based on the same "logic", purely because her status of a fresh senior should be lower than that. But that's not possible, those are two conflicting attitudes. Either the scoring is based purely on rules and skate, then let¨s talk about technical issues and analyze where the scores should be higher/lower, no matter on what event it is, or it should be based on status. But then, what status should be the right one? There completely other than quality criteria decide, and that's what I really see witht hose who complain now, esp. when compared how they overprize other wobbly skated performances or performances with uncalled serious mistakes.
Lol, sorry about the copyright infringement, it was indeed intended rather as a citation.
I never demanded Kami's score to be lowered, I just pointed out that her PCS could be a bit closer to the ceiling than you made it appear in your original post. Anyway, PCS scoring is basically just alchemy to me, I'll never figure it out, that's why I cling to these tables.
I just wonder, if Kami is crowned Olympic champion and decides to continue her skating career, they'll need to invent a new PCS category for her. What comes after "Platinum"? Maybe "Star Dust" or something like that? Or they'll just name it "Kamila". :ROFLMAO:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
What a great short program for the women that was!:clap:

I feel that Chen and Saarinen might have been a bit overscored, but that's just me.

It will be very exciting tomorrow.

And yay! Gubanova 4th! I never thought that was possible.
And not Tuktamysheva or Valieva?

Did I mention Chen Karenina and Jenni Saarinova actually both now represent Russia? Would that change your mind? :laugh:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
For all the complaints about Kamila's PCS. Liza's really don't make sense. So anyone saying if Kamila was any other skater her PCS would be lower..the strength of the Russian federation isn't limited to just Kamila.

That said, aaaah. Liza winning the SP makes me so happy!
I'm super happy for Liza winning the SP (well deserved) but her PCS don't make sense either. She was brilliant but her choreo/interpretation/skating skills are not on par with Kostornaia. Kostornaia's PCS was high (program still needs work and she doesn't have her usual speed/flow) but not egregiously high PCS. Liza's should be 33-ish PCS and with the fall I'd have Valieva around 32-33 (if clean, probably around 34-35). I also thought Karen, Loena, Amber and Jenni were overscored too (esp. Karen who I'd have given around a mid 33).

At least Saarinen and Tuktamysheva went clean. So many PCS personal bests for subpar skates - Hendrickx had a major stepout on her combo and got a PCS personal best, Valieva had a downgraded fall and got 2.9 points higher PCS than her previous personal best, Chen doubled a triple and UR'ed a loop, and while she was still "clean" she still didn't perform to the level of previous SPs yet. Glenn fell and messed up a spin and essentially matched her previous PCS personal best (31.37 instead of 31.47) It's WAY too early in the season to give out PBs, and for SPs this sloppy.

I don't buy any of this apologist (well they skated better than before, PCS is separate from technical elements, etc. etc. etc.). Skaters who make errors need to have it reflected in their presentation scores. Or maybe I'm just one of those weird judges who for some strange reason believes that errors actually detract from the performance and presentation of a program, and should be accordingly reflected in the PCS scores. :rolleye:
 
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CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
In general the judges in the women's SP all had their happy juice for most of the top skaters. I mean Judge #9 for Valieva took their Valium - +5's across the board (the most shocking this is that they didn't give Valieva << UR fall a -2 or -3)! :laugh2:

TBH, what a brilliant idea from the Finlandia organizers to hand out high PCS like candy this early in the season. It will encourage the skaters/federations who want to get a leg up at the start of the season to show up to Finlandia next year and increase their PCS threshold. 👏
 

Dogo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Aliona is my very favorite skater in women and her demeanor ties into my reason for loving her so much… I grew up with a younger sister very much like Aliona in personality - total belief in herself and so positive!! I am more reflective and cautious. Even now in our 70’s our personalities have not changed; it floors me how often we fail to see eye-to-eye on so many fronts but we work thru it, embrace our differences completely.. it requires psychological flexibility, suspension of judgmental impulse, a shift in perspective and an ability to accept those whose perceptions are a bit different from our own. From what I gather about Aliona (and I do not pretend to know her per se) she is a truly good person with a kind heart wanting best from herself and for everyone.. the smile is real no doubt but an extension of her inner value. I think she is just lovely..
This is such a lovely personal story @elbkup!🥲

I also share similar warm feelings for another special skater and I must say that I can also see my sister on her. I'm glad that figure skating has a way of showing us, the viewers, all of these amazing athletes with beautiful and unique personalities. Thanks for sharing your story here 😊
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
It DOES. That's where the capping comes in. But as long as it isn't disruptive it doesn't affect the rest of the PCS.

Falls are disruptive. They are falls. People need to stop trivializing as "not disruptive".

It is a major error -- the most definitive error in figure skating -- and hers was also on a downgraded jump at that. It is arguably the most blatant error you could have and you don't just gloss over that just because it wasn't a fall where the skater was sprawling on the ice.

The current capping is bs - it is just an excuse that people use to say "See, the judges weren't out of line because they stayed within the capping parameters". Even then some judges don't adhere to it. It is not nearly strict enough nor enforced enough. You could give 9.25s for SS/TR/CO to a skater who has 8 falls and it would be "justified" by capping rules (especially if those 8 falls weren't disruptive! *sarcasm* 😏).

If Valieva is on, I'm totally fine with her winning because of her technical superiority. But, at this point, the PCS she got with a fall isn't even deserved if she had a clean 3A. At least make her earn the Olympic gold... if she keeps getting scores like these, it'll essentially be handed to her.
 
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