2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Short Program | Page 35 | Golden Skate

2021 Finlandia Trophy: Women's Short Program

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Who would you have put the highest on PCS here, if all were clean?
Kostornaia. Hands down. I would also put Chen in 2nd (and close to Kostornaia) if she actually skated clean with a 3-3 and no technical errors.

If all clean:
Kostornaia (35ish w/o a 3A; 36ish w/ a 3A) > Chen (mid/high-34) >> Valieva (low/mid-33) > Tuktamysheva (low 33)
 
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Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
What a great short program for the women that was!:clap:

I feel that Chen and Saarinen might have been a bit overscored, but that's just me.

It will be very exciting tomorrow.

And yay! Gubanova 4th! I never thought that was possible.

Skating and the final group in a very deep field must make her feel great. Hopefully Nastia can feel reborn and re energized by the switch to representing Georgia. She really hasn't skated much over the last 3 years a couple nationals a couple Russian cup finals but nothing that could really develop her abilities.

She looks as fit as a fiddle. Her best form since 2016 or 17? But she still scored like 12 points less than Liza and did not even break 70 points. So she has a lot of work to do and in the future she's gonna need to have an SP where she can get in the mid seventies and I don't know how that gets done.

Is the other Georgian girl in this competition? Nastie has to take that Olympic spot from her.

It sounds like a great competition good luck to all the ladies tomorrow in the free.

It will be interesting to say who wins between the top 3 Russians.

It also what's great is that Nastya stay home live in train in Saint Petersburg and see her parents and younger siblings ehile representing Georgia internationally and probably traveling there periodically to do publicity and Geonats.

Was Rukavicin with her? Or Leonova?

Thanks for any additional info.
 
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Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
Kostornaia > Chen >>> Valieva > Tuktamysheva
I don't think there's such a big gap between Chen/Kostornaia vs Valieva. I'd say Chen (the best SP of the four)>Kostornaia>Valieva>>Tuktamysheva. Valieva does have beautiful spins and great extension and decent skating skills that deserve consideration. It's Tuktamysheva who is confusing, with still quite weak SS and spins, definitely doesn't have good extension, and she's not musical like Chen, or with the engaging energy of Kostornaia.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I don't think there's such a big gap between Chen/Kostornaia vs Valieva. I'd say Chen (the best SP of the four)>Kostornaia>Valieva>>Tuktamysheva. Valieva does have beautiful spins and great extension and decent skating skills that deserve consideration. It's Tuktamysheva who is confusing, with still quite weak SS and spins, definitely doesn't have good extension, and she's not musical like Chen, or with the engaging energy of Kostornaia.
Sorry I revised mine after I thought about it a bit more. Valieva has lovely extension, but lacks the projection/expression and finesse of Chen/Kostornaia. Tuktamysheva has great performance level and confidence, which keeps her on par with Valieva but her lack of SS and flexibility and okay-but-not-great choreo keeps her slightly behind - without the 3A, I wouldn't have Liza even close to the other 3, but it really does make for a greater overall impression and to me a big element (especially in the SP) shouldn't go unrewarded... including on the PCS side where I would say it adds to the performance moreso than it detracts (because of the setup).
 

Zora

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Sorry I revised mine after I thought about it a bit more. Valieva has lovely extension, but lacks the projection/expression and finesse of Chen/Kostornaia.
I'm usually a big fan of Kostornaia's skating, but there's no expression and little interpretation going on between her opening Axel and her combination. Actually it's just the timing of the combination that saves the whole part. And I think even the step sequence could be more exploding. I was suprised she scored that well. :shrug:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I'm usually a big fan of Kostornaia's skating, but there's no expression and little interpretation going on between her opening Axel and her combination. Actually it's just the timing of the combination that saves the whole part. And I think even the step sequence could be more exploding. I was suprised she scored that well. :shrug:

TBH everyone was scoring much higher than what they probably deserved. Kostornaia I would have kept at just about 35 on the nose, and I'm also a big fan of her skating. This program still needs work (a lot of programs of the other skaters do too), and yet the judges were treating this like the Olympics or GPF.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I'm usually a big fan of Kostornaia's skating, but there's no expression and little interpretation going on between her opening Axel and her combination. Actually it's just the timing of the combination that saves the whole part. And I think even the step sequence could be more exploding. I was suprised she scored that well. :shrug:
I think all were very overscored. None have particularly good programs, Karen only has a semblance of one. Therefore, the PCS mostly comes down to how the program was performed/projected, the SS, and the quality of the technical elements more than the actual choreography/interpretation/expression.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Me after watching this.
Were are not even in December yet.

d6eadaa50e5751dc9d2f3ff4f8e3595a.jpg
 

LiamForeman

ЛиамФорэман
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
I wonder how Eteri is feeling at the moment. Both her students lost to Tuk. Not a good start, although I have total confidence Kamila and Alyona will bring it in the LP. At least people will get off Sasha's back about not landing the 3a yet.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I wonder how Eteri is feeling at the moment.
I don't think she cares at all :shrug: Tuktamysheva finished 7th last season in Russian Nationals, and here she barely beat Kostornaia with a 2A, and Valieva with a downgraded fall got 75. The signs are pointing in exactly the right way for Eteri.
 

4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
I would say so. I'd have Valieva still ahead of Gubanova, but like with a 70-71 score (PCS in the mid-32 range). And of course Kostornaia and Tuktamysheva deserve the top 2 scores, and Tukt in 1st is fully justified given her 3A.
there we go :) so let's just agree that the judges gave halloween candy early. :) it's canadian thanksgiving too... i am just happy that this was a fun event to watch and that overall, rankings are probably not bad at all... we have seen way worse
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
I wonder how Eteri is feeling at the moment.
Fine haha. Both of her skaters barely lost to Liza getting the highest SP score she's ever had at a competition where you could argue PCS everywhere were high (which kinda negates the argument). Neither Aliona or Kamila had their best skates and neither landed (or in Aliona's case attempted) their 3A's. Both of them would have much higher PCS with landed 3As whereas Liza's PCS are about as high as you're giving her. Liza had the best SP of her life and that is only .5 better than a 3A-less Anna.

Eteri feels fine haha.
 

chasingneverland

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Falls are disruptive. They are falls. People need to stop trivializing as "not disruptive".

It is a major error -- the most definitive error in figure skating -- and hers was also on a downgraded jump at that. It is arguably the most blatant error you could have and you don't just gloss over that just because it wasn't a fall where the skater was sprawling on the ice.

The current capping is bs - it is just an excuse that people use to say "See, the judges weren't out of line because they stayed within the capping parameters". Even then some judges don't adhere to it. It is not nearly strict enough nor enforced enough. You could give 9.25s for SS/TR/CO to a skater who has 8 falls and it would be "justified" by capping rules (especially if those 8 falls weren't disruptive! *sarcasm* 😏).

If Valieva is on, I'm totally fine with her winning because of her technical superiority. But, at this point, the PCS she got with a fall isn't even deserved if she had a clean 3A. At least make her earn the Olympic gold... if she keeps getting scores like these, it'll essentially be handed to her.
Actually that's distinctly wrong. The major error - the fall - is taken into account with the capped PCS, deduction for the fall, and impact on GOE/BV. That's it.

It WAS a major error and her PCS being capped reflects that. A downgraded jump doesn't add to the error - it still remains one major error.

She continued skating and performing after it.

The PCS are marked on:
1. Skating Skills: edges, steps, turns; balance, knees and feet action and placement; flow and glide, varied se of power, peed and acceleration; multi-directional skating; and one foot skating
2. Transitions: continuity of movements, variety, difficulty, and quality
3. Performance: physical, emotional, intellectual involvement; projection; carriage; variety and contrast of movements and energy; and individuality or personality
4. Composition: purpose, ice coverage, use of space and design of movements, form and movments to match musical phrasising, originality of the composition
5. Interpretation: timing, expression of the music, and finesse and nuances of the music

There actually isn't anything in there about falls.

Falls are taken from the scores after that - hence the addition of a capped score. From the technical score with BV, GOE, and deductions and from the PCS with a capped PCS.

No. You could NOT give 9.25s for a skater with 8 falls. That wouldn't be considered a "diamond" or 9.00-9.75 skate. Most importantly because falling that much would mean that you're falling on things that are affecting your PCS. So you're falling while just skating so that would affect your skating skills and transitions. Falling that many times would affect your involvement and portrayal.

Furthermore, think of Satoko at World's. She had a catastrophic skate but outside of the jumps she remained committed to her performance and the fluidity of her skating and interpretation. Hence her high PCS.

Finally, you could argue all the top skaters (not just Russia's skaters) got inflated PCS. And that's why judging is not to be used between competitions. Because this is how this judging panel perceived them. So looking at Kamila's skates in light of the Olympics is flawed because that's a different panel of judging.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
And not Tuktamysheva or Valieva?

Did I mention Chen Karenina and Jenni Saarinova actually both now represent Russia? Would that change your mind? :laugh:
Oh I get it. You're trying to be funny:). Actually, I don't get it. I was just saying my opinion and that was kind of funny?
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I'm usually a big fan of Kostornaia's skating, but there's no expression and little interpretation going on between her opening Axel and her combination. Actually it's just the timing of the combination that saves the whole part. And I think even the step sequence could be more exploding. I was suprised she scored that well. :shrug:
This

Kostornaia is a great skater but a tad overrated imo. I just dont understand the raving about her great skating skills, all she got is good posture imo.

And while I'm at it. Karen Chen does nothing to me. She has that American style that I'm not a fan of. Her Lutz is fantastic, but she clearly has troubles with 3+3s. And that she is a great PCS skater, I just don't understand.

PCS is very subjective. Different styles, different opinions. I am clearly in the minority when it comes to Kostornaia and Chen, but does that mean that I am wrong?
 
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Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Skating and the final group in a very deep field must make her feel great. Hopefully Nastia can feel reborn and re energized by the switch to representing Georgia. She really hasn't skated much over the last 3 years a couple nationals a couple Russian cup finals but nothing that could really develop her abilities.

She looks as fit as a fiddle. Her best form since 2016 or 17? But she still scored like 12 points less than Liza and did not even break 70 points. So she has a lot of work to do and in the future she's gonna need to have an SP where she can get in the mid seventies and I don't know how that gets done.

Is the other Georgian girl in this competition? Nastie has to take that Olympic spot from her.

It sounds like a great competition good luck to all the ladies tomorrow in the free.

It will be interesting to say who wins between the top 3 Russians.

It also what's great is that Nastya stay home live in train in Saint Petersburg and see her parents and younger siblings ehile representing Georgia internationally and probably traveling there periodically to do publicity and Geonats.

Was Rukavicin with her? Or Leonova?

Thanks for any additional info.
Rukavicin was with Gubanova.
No, the other Gerogian girl wasn't here.
If Gubanova didn't have that unfortunate -1 deduction for time violation, she would actually have scored a PB at international contests.

Yeah, it was great to see Gubanova again:)
 
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