2021 Nebelhorn Trophy: General Info | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2021 Nebelhorn Trophy: General Info

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
For those like me that were waiting for the Start Orders before doing their Predictions, tomorrow's line-ups have finally been uploaded.

Men:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Pairs:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Ladies:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Still no sign of the start order for Friday's Short Dance.

It's not just us that doing the draws so late isn't fair on. It's not fair on the skaters. How are they supposed to properly plan out their day if they don't know when they're on? Especially in the Singles categories, where there are a lot of entrants. There is a big difference in skating just after breakfast time, and skating at dinner time (the Men). Or between skating at tea-time, and skating at bed-time (the Ladies).

CaroLiza_fan
 

alexocfp

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
For those like me that were waiting for the Start Orders before doing their Predictions, tomorrow's line-ups have finally been uploaded.

Men:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Pairs:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Ladies:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...----------QUAL000100--_StartListwithTimes.pdf

Still no sign of the start order for Friday's Short Dance.

It's not just us that doing the draws so late isn't fair on. It's not fair on the skaters. How are they supposed to properly plan out their day if they don't know when they're on? Especially in the Singles categories, where there are a lot of entrants. There is a big difference in skating just after breakfast time, and skating at dinner time (the Men). Or between skating at tea-time, and skating at bed-time (the Ladies).

CaroLiza_fan
While I certainly respect your point of view, can I respectfully disagree and offer a counter argument?

I think everyone is so amped up to try to get an Olympic spot that most everyone will be full of adrenaline for a few days.

These are trained athletes that have to clear much harder hurdles than what time they are skating.

They have been mentally and physically preparing for any and all scenarios.

Don’t think it’s that big of a deal for them. In sports with orders of play, you know that your number can be called anywhere at any time so you need to be at the ready no matter what.

For me, if the time you skate affects you that much, you don’t deserve to qualify for the Olympics anyway.
 

balabam

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Country
Slovakia
While I certainly respect your point of view, can I respectfully disagree and offer a counter argument?

I think everyone is so amped up to try to get an Olympic spot that most everyone will be full of adrenaline for a few days.

These are trained athletes that have to clear much harder hurdles than what time they are skating.

They have been mentally and physically preparing for any and all scenarios.

Don’t think it’s that big of a deal for them. In sports with orders of play, you know that your number can be called anywhere at any time so you need to be at the ready no matter what.

For me, if the time you skate affects you that much, you don’t deserve to qualify for the Olympics anyway.
It is not about you as skater, but much more about inconsistent judging, prooven by time.

It works this way: let's get some random score (in components) for the first skater. Then, compared to him, we will issue next scores.
In later groups, we will hold some level and we are very uncomfortable to go under it and compare to the first groups. Especially warm-ups and furthermore zamboni time could do miracles in components scoring and also GOEs for elements.

It's a shame that there are no randomized studies to give some random orders of the same skaters to judges for video judging but I'm pretty sure, these studies could show very clear order bias
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
While I certainly respect your point of view, can I respectfully disagree and offer a counter argument?

I think everyone is so amped up to try to get an Olympic spot that most everyone will be full of adrenaline for a few days.

These are trained athletes that have to clear much harder hurdles than what time they are skating.

They have been mentally and physically preparing for any and all scenarios.

Don’t think it’s that big of a deal for them. In sports with orders of play, you know that your number can be called anywhere at any time so you need to be at the ready no matter what.

For me, if the time you skate affects you that much, you don’t deserve to qualify for the Olympics anyway.

Fair enough.

But, I'm thinking more about eating and drinking. And the inevitable consequence - going to the toilet.

You have to carefully time out when to do these things so that you are not feeling hungry or bloated or needing to go to the toilet at the time you are supposed to be skating.

And when a segment is 4 hours long, it is all the more important to know whereabouts you will be. Because if you are going in an early group, the time to eat is very different from if you are going in a later group.

The way I was describing the times of the Singles segments in terms of meal times in my previous post was deliberate. ;) :biggrin:

CaroLiza_fan
 

alexocfp

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
It is not about you as skater, but much more about inconsistent judging, prooven by time.

It works this way: let's get some random score (in components) for the first skater. Then, compared to him, we will issue next scores.
In later groups, we will hold some level and we are very uncomfortable to go under it and compare to the first groups. Especially warm-ups and furthermore zamboni time could do miracles in components scoring and also GOEs for elements.

It's a shame that there are no randomized studies to give some random orders of the same skaters to judges for video judging but I'm pretty sure, these studies could show very clear order bias
Don’t worry, nobody will ever confuse me for a skater. I’m way too unathletic to be one. Totally hopeless. You are better off just burning the money in a giant pit than spending it on skating lessons for me. Haha

If you are are arguing that certain draw numbers get better or worse scoring, I certainly am curious like you to see if there is any correlation, good or bad.

If you want to use the hypothetical skating lesson money for me to do that research, then we can talk. Haha
 
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alexocfp

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
Fair enough.

But, I'm thinking more about eating and drinking. And the inevitable consequence - going to the toilet.

You have to carefully time out when to do these things so that you are not feeling hungry or bloated or needing to go to the toilet at the time you are supposed to be skating.

And when a segment is 4 hours long, it is all the more important to know whereabouts you will be. Because if you are going in an early group, the time to eat is very different from if you are going in a later group.

The way I was describing the times of the Singles segments in terms of meal times in my previous post was deliberate. ;) :biggrin:

CaroLiza_fan
Zero argument from me on those points.

Preparation differs based on when you skate for sure.
 

auser

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
yeah, remember how nice and quiet everything was a year ago... lots of time for other things 🦋

well... for me it's simple.. i will be sleeping for most of it... and working for the rest... almost impossible to watch events in Europe.
Hopefully you will be able to watch archived streams or videos.:) That's what I'm counting on since I won't be able to watch most of the first day live.
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
That reminds me, the Olympics Twitter linked to an article about Neblehorn and the athletes competing there in the hope of getting Olympic spots.

They called Brendan Kerry Brandon! I tweeted a correction to them and now it's fixed - probably not because of my tweet but I'll claim it anyway ;)
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Mars
What are the requirements in scoring to obtain the spot(s) competitors and their countries are seeking?

I've looked on the Wiki Nebelhorn site but it doesn't explain any base level scoring requirement.
 

beepboop

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
What are the requirements in scoring to obtain the spot(s) competitors and their countries are seeking?

I've looked on the Wiki Nebelhorn site but it doesn't explain any base level scoring requirement.
They have to place in the top X# of spots still available in their discipline (e.g. there are 6 remaining women's spots so the top 6 women will qualify their countries' spots)
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Mars
They have to place in the top X# of spots still available in their discipline (e.g. there are 6 remaining women's spots so the top 6 women will qualify their countries' spots)
Thanks. What's available in the other disciplines?

ETA:
I found some answers in the below, and in other threads. Pairs have 3 spots, which is weird. It should be 4, to reach 20 instead of 19.

It looks like some skaters are competing for the heck of it, because they don't have any chance of making the cut-off. Germany has two pairs competing, but only one spot available. They can't pick up an extra spot. So, did Kunkel/Hocke think they might be able to beat Hase/Seegert, and win the one spot Germany has for pairs? Hase/Seegert have improved a little, and skated very well, taking second in the sp. Kunkel/Hocke are farther down in the standings.

So if the placements remain as is, since Germany only has one spot in pairs anyway, would Hase/Seegert being in 2nd cancel out and the three overall spots available would only be counted for skaters/countries actually competing for additional spots?

ETA:
Also, since Miura/Kihara performed well at 2021 Worlds and landed in 10th place, another pairs spot became available for Japan. But, Japan would have to send a pair other than M/K to compete for a second spot. Since they don't have another pair who are highly competitive, I guess that spot goes to another country.
 
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thorag

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Country
Iceland
Does anyone know who tested positive for Covid?

EDIT: ah see it now most likely the Belarus ice dance team
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
Thanks. What's available in the other disciplines?

ETA:
I found some answers in the below, and in other threads. Pairs have 3 spots, which is weird. It should be 4, to reach 20 instead of 19.

It looks like some skaters are competing for the heck of it, because they don't have any chance of making the cut-off. Germany has two pairs competing, but only one spot available. They can't pick up an extra spot. So, did Kunkel/Hocke think they might be able to beat Hase/Seegert, and win the one spot Germany has for pairs? Hase/Seegert have improved a little, and skated very well, taking second in the sp. Kunkel/Hocke are farther down in the standings.

So if the placements remain as is, since Germany only has one spot in pairs anyway, would Hase/Seegert being in 2nd cancel out and the three overall spots available would only be counted for skaters/countries actually competing for additional spots?

ETA:
Also, since Miura/Kihara performed well at 2021 Worlds and landed in 10th place, another pairs spot became available for Japan. But, Japan would have to send a pair other than M/K to compete for a second spot. Since they don't have another pair who are highly competitive, I guess that spot goes to another country.
Yes. You have to place in the top X spots of the skaters competing for Olympic qualifying. The German pairs are not, for them it's just like any regular CS event. Hocke/Kunkel aren't trying to "win" Germany's spot (as far as the ISU is concerned). It belongs to the fed, and they'll pick the team for the Olympics based on their own criteria.
 

gsk8

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Country
United-States
Press Release:

The health and safety of all participants of the ISU events remains the number one priority for the International Skating Union (ISU).

As part of the Covid-19 testing procedures during the ISU Challenger series and Olympic Qualifying Event Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf (GER), numerous antigen tests have been performed on site. Amongst these numerous tests, one positive case was identified and confirmed. The ISU and Organizing Committee will respect the privacy of the respective person and inform the remaining Event Participants internally of the situation. The person has been isolated and the local health authorities are following up with all mandatory procedures and policies according to the State of Bavaria.

The Organizing Committee and local health authorities continue to take care of the safety and health of all participants of the event.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Mars
Yes. You have to place in the top X spots of the skaters competing for Olympic qualifying. The German pairs are not, for them it's just like any regular CS event. Hocke/Kunkel aren't trying to "win" Germany's spot (as far as the ISU is concerned). It belongs to the fed, and they'll pick the team for the Olympics based on their own criteria.
Okay, thanks. That's what I figured. But I'm sure that Hocke/Kunkel wished to skate well and place above Hase/Seegert, the better to boost their chances of being selected. I think it will be Hase/Seegert -- they look confident and seem to have a bit more strengths.
 

surimi

Good luck in the new season, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Can anyone tell me which skaters in each category have won their Olympic slots in Nebelhorn? :pray: And if there are archived streams? I couldn't watch live, but would like to, later on.
 

figureskatingandrainbows

Happy Olympic Season!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Pairs: Spain, Georgia and Israel
Men: USA, France, Russia, Korea, Australia, Canada, Azerbaijan
Women's free is currently ongoing, ID is next. The streams are archived, just click the links for day 1, 2, or 3 and you can watch them.
 
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