2021 U.S. Int'l Classic: Women's Short Program | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2021 U.S. Int'l Classic: Women's Short Program

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Nice post.

People just want different countries entering without thinking of the work and money and other involved.

I can guarantee you that not many, if any, Greeks will take up, or be good at, skating, just because a Greek enters a skating event. First off, the event won‘t be covered in Greece and second of all, there needs to be a change in the culture there to get people to skate. Greece is a football, basketball, amd to,a lesser extent volleyball and water polo country. The cultual shift required to get skating in there is near impossible. Haven‘t met one Greek, in the US or Greece that had ever mentioned the sport.

Argentina won’t become a skating nation just because one person there skates. It’s wishfull thinking.

India is a cricket nation and that is where the money and attention goes. Don‘t know any Indian friend that knows any Indian figure skater.

Contrast that to Russia. It is treated as a major sport hence the athletes want to go in it.

Some nations are tropical and have no winter sports to speak of.

To sum up, some nations are just lost causes when it comes to skating and nothing will change that.
Without 2014 olympics and the effort of fed to build convincing fields in all disciplines, Russian ladies' sjating wouldn't have had reach this level probably.

Will and Money matter everywhere.

Skaters can have the talent to put light on their country but rich parents or fed help too. Or sponsors.
 

alexocfp

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Without 2014 olympics and the effort of fed to build convincing fields in all disciplines, Russian ladies' sjating wouldn't have had reach this level probably.

Will and Money matter everywhere.

Skaters can have the talent to put light on their country but rich parents or fed help too. Or sponsors.
Will and money matters everywhere. Well said.

You are the GS philosopher we always needed but don’t deserve. Haha

And Russia is a winter sports nation that are big into ice hockey. So tbe rinks are already there. And their dance and ballet culture certainly doesn‘t hurt either. Plus, the coaches rule with an iron fist and that helps too.

Same with South Korea. Those short track rinks can be used to train figure skaters. And obviously they aren’t a poor country so they can afford to go out and get the best. Plus the people there want to skate.
 

dorispulaski

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There are a number of paths for a country to develop an interest in skating

Consider Cyprus ...a Cypriot just won Autumn Classic. I believe she is an ex-pat . But there is a very good up and coming Cypriot ice Dance team That surprised me. But quite a few wealthy Russians have chosen to settle in Cyprus. Before that, there was maybe one half sized mall rink in the country. Money can make things happen anywhere, and money is very mobile.

A Turkish woman, Tuğba Karademir made the free skate at two worlds and two Olympics. She was the flag bearer for Turkey at the 2006 Winter Olympics. She grew up and learned to skate in Turkey, but had to train overseas to reach the level she did. There was no huge winter sports culture in Turkey, but there was
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kocaeli_Büyükşehir_Belediyesi_Kağıt_Spor_Kulübü, Kocaeli Büyükşehir Belediyesi Kağıt Spor Kulübü, aka Kocaeli BB Kağıtspor, is a multi-sports club sponsored by the Metropolitan Municipality of Kocaeli in Turkey. It is devoted to a about 30 different sports including as disparate events as sailing tae kwon do, and yes hockey and ice skating. It appears to have a fervor for Olympic events in general. There is now a substantial group of Turkish skaters not to mention a much maligned Turkish ice Dance judge at this very event. When young Tugba became involved in skating, she had her club behind her, but it was her huge commitment and her family's huge commitment that led to her qualifying for the Olympics twice. And she has inspired others in Turkey

You doubt India will ever do anything in ice skating, and you may well be right. However, roller skating is quite popular in India. Indians have won medals at the Asian games. The very first ice skaters we are seeing who grew up in India come from that roller skating community. They are at the half size mall rink level now, but the future is unknown

BTW This board had a Greek moderator for a while @seniorita. She was a huge fan of Kazuka & Plushenko and travelled to competitions to see them skate. I always root for the occasional Greek skater in her honor. Skating is not unappealing to all Greeks ;)

This is an ISU entry level competition for seniors. It is not unusual for skaters of all levels who train locally to enter. If you want to play "one of these things is not like the other," it is Sasha who does not belong at this competition. She could just as well have tried her 5 quad program out at a Russian local competition. However, her coach's (Eteri's) daughter Diana Davis is making her senior debut in ice Dance here.

And so we are so lucky to have the chance to watch Sasha skate.
 

Skatesocs

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Entire post
I think you misunderstood.

A Turkish woman, Tuğba Karademir made the free skate at two worlds and two Olympics. She was the flag bearer for Turkey at the 2006 Winter Olympics. She grew up and learned to skate in Turkey, but had to train overseas to reach the level she did. There was no huge winter sports culture in Turkey, but there was
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kocaeli_Büyükşehir_Belediyesi_Kağıt_Spor_Kulübü, Kocaeli Büyükşehir Belediyesi Kağıt Spor Kulübü, aka Kocaeli BB Kağıtspor, is a multi-sports club sponsored by the Metropolitan Municipality of Kocaeli in Turkey. It is devoted to a about 30 different sports including as disparate events as sailing tae kwon do, and yes hockey and ice skating. It appears to have a fervor for Olympic events in general. There is now a substantial group of Turkish skaters not to mention a much maligned Turkish ice Dance judge at this very event. When young Tugba became involved in skating, she had her club behind her, but it was her huge commitment and her family's huge commitment that led to her qualifying for the Olympics twice. And she has inspired others in Turkey

You doubt India will ever do anything in ice skating, and you may well be right. However, roller skating is quite popular in India. Indians have won medals at the Asian games. The very first ice skaters we are seeing who grew up in India come from that roller skating community. They are at the half size mall rink level now, but the future is unknown

These two points along with
It is not unusual for skaters of all levels who train locally to enter. If you want to play "one of these things is not like the other," it is Sasha who does not belong at this competition. She could just as well have tried her 5 quad program out at a Russian local competition.
This one, are exactly what we were saying!

1. It makes more sense to see actual Indians (and Turks, as you mention) who grew up in those countries so that they legitimately promote the sport there.
2. Why was Sasha Trusova along with these skaters? Either Trusova shouldn't have been, or the others shouldn't have been. I'd have much rather seen Trusova go to an actual challenger as the rest of Eteri's team is going (she could have done Autumn Classics, if the point was to see the time zone difference and test out 5 quads, and I call bs on it being visa-related, when there are so many Russians assigned to Skate America).

I do disagree that some skaters from Turkey and India will promote the sport there beyond a point, again as much as I'm not against seeing skaters who actually belong to those countries and train there (one of the original points here was someone randomly country-hopping and doing horribly and probably never going to promote the sport in the country they hopped to is less beneficial than someone like the Turk you mentioned. So again, this is exactly what we are saying!). I think it's a fantasy to believe that. I am related to Asians from a country where this sport will never grow. That's perfectly fine with all of us. Can't miss what you don't know about. Of course there are some Greeks, some Indians, some Turks, some Malay, some Pakistanis, some Filipinos, some even from Timor-Leste who watch and enjoy the sport. That doesn't mean much more than them having a good internet connection.
 

dorispulaski

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And you missed my point, which was that you can't always predict how, why, and where a skating community will grow. My examples were Cyprus and Turkey, two neighbors of Greece, both of which have a growing skating community.

Cyprus had as little skating as Greece, and at various times in its history has even been part of Greece. Over 70% of its population are Greek. The other large Cypriot group are Turks. All it took was a large group of wealthy Russian immigrants to make skating take hold there. This can happen in any country, any time.

In Turkey, the biggest impetus was one determined, talented skater, coupled with a culture that encourages all sports, especially Olympic sports.

As the source of the Olympics, I think Greece might have either situation arise in some future time.

As to India, it is more interesting and harder to predict. There are a lot of very good skaters of Indian ethnicity skating for the US, and other countries. Why isn't one of these talented skaters competing for India? ) I suspect that is because they are not easily able to acquire Indian citizenship, and so to be able to compete for India in the Olympics.)

It is not because skating bores Indians, by its very nature:
Indians absolutely went crazy on YouTube when Davis & White skated to Bollywood for an OD. And It is a big country.

There are very good roller skaters in India, and roller is a similar but non Olympic sport. In other countries, this has led to hotshot roller skaters who desired an Olympic medal to become very good, even exceptional, ice skaters. The most outstanding example is Tara Lipinski. But not yet in India.

As to that area of Asia, look at Malaysia. The climate does not preclude rinks. Malaysia now has a respectable federation with some pretty good ice skaters, including a favorite of mine, Julian Zhi Yee, and they have full size rinks. They have even hosted international events.

So why isn't there better ice skating in India itself? Because there are almost no ice rinks. But why?

Many areas of India have a lot of rich people. Indians play polo and originated polo, for crying out loud. Polo is the peak of hyper-expensive sport. Ice rinks should be possible. Heck, Indians who make their wealth elsewhere go home to India, even.

One issue is that Indian citizenship is easy to lose and hard to obtain, but skating has not happened. Some day it might, but it should have already.

I still think Sasha is here because Eteri wanted to see her daughter's senior debut. (Our luck) Sasha herself would have been better served to compete at a Challenger. Maybe Eteri cut her a break of some sort?

I would agree with you that country hopping rich kids do not inspire the growth of their sport in the country they compete for in most cases, but do consider the case of World ice dance medalist Galit Chait and her dad Boris Chait and Israel. (Chait - Moracci is the coach and choreographer for the Israeli ice dance team at this very event.)

The obsession of one hugely rich family has caused there to be ice rinks and skating in Israel. So it has happened once, but I agree it is not the most likely path. And Israel's very easy path to citizenship for Jews not born in Israel, and so a simple path to competing in the Olympics, has been key to acquiring a group of skilled skaters not named Chait.
 

Seven Sisters

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Of course there are some Greeks, some Indians, some Turks, some Malay, some Pakistanis, some Filipinos, some even from Timor-Leste who watch and enjoy the sport. That doesn't mean much more than them having a good internet connection.
Skating unappealing to Greeks? I would suggest that the family and friends of Ms. Gabrielle Papadakis might disagree with you :)

True, she skates for France, but I would be willing to bet that at least some folks in the Greek community are very proud of her.
 
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Skatesocs

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And you missed my point, which was that you can't always predict how, why, and where a skating community will grow.
I still feel we are speaking over each other, and saying the same thing. Of course we cannot always predict. The key word in this statement that you made is "always". Anomalies occur, and unpredictable events occur, how can they not? But you cannot always predict. So how can you present anomalies, and say it can occur elsewhere?

In Turkey, the biggest impetus was one determined, talented skater, coupled with a culture that encourages all sports, especially Olympic sports.
Right, but it still doesn't have a big skating culture. One person brought it more attention, and it's grown somewhat (both of which I state in my comment, that some Turk can and will inspire a culture - but also that this culture will be rather fractured, and won't be as big as somewhere in Russia or Canada or even France), but it takes more than that.

As to India, it is more interesting and harder to predict. There are a lot of very good skaters of Indian ethnicity skating for the US, and other countries. Why isn't one of these talented skaters competing for India? ) I suspect that is because they are not easily able to acquire Indian citizenship, and so to be able to compete for India in the Olympics.)

It is not because skating bores Indians, by its very nature:
Indians absolutely went crazy on YouTube when Davis & White skated to Bollywood for an OD. And It is a big country.

There are very good roller skaters in India, and roller is a similar but non Olympic sport. In other countries, this has led to hotshot roller skaters who desired an Olympic medal to become very good, even exceptional, ice skaters. The most outstanding example is Tara Lipinski. But not yet in India.
Yes, and India even has a very big potential market for the ISU. You will even find many Indians commenting on not just Davis and White's Bollywood OD. And yet, they don't really care all that much about skating, at least as much as they could. The sports culture is different, they focus on summer sports a lot more, and cricket (which isn't an Olympic sport either, like roller skating). Just in the summer Olympics, they got an Olympic Gold in men's Javelin Throw, and did decently in Women's badminton, and men's hockey played on a turf ("field hockey"). How many will they even send to the winter Olympics?

As to that area of Asia, look at Malaysia. The climate does not preclude rinks. Malaysia now has a respectable federation with some pretty good ice skaters, including a favorite of mine, Julian Zhi Yee, and they have full size rinks. They have even hosted international events.
But I didn't say at all that the sport has zero growth potential in any country without a snowy winter. The point was it's too hard to shift that sport culture into something that is very much unnatural for them. Malaysia is still a very small fed. A very small fed. Of course it remains to be seen how big it gets, but there are many different factors, that don't just depend on one person.

For that matter, Malaysia will have stronger ties to send their skaters to say China or Japan for training. This has happened to a Filipino gymnast like Carlos Yulo, who trains in Japan. But the investment there is still more into summer sports, and not all Asian countries are interested in doing that anyway, nor will they have similar ties to China and Japan even if they wanted to do that.

Many areas of India have a lot of rich people. Indians play polo and originated polo, for crying out loud. Polo is the peak of hyper-expensive sport. Ice rinks should be possible. Heck, Indians who make their wealth elsewhere go home to India, even.
Many areas of India surely have rich people who play polo (and golf, as there was a female Olympian who did very well this summer), but it will still be a tiny, tiny fraction of that population that is interested in those sports. Even if these rich people ended up constructing rinks in India, and skated at those rinks, and somehow found a way to ship themselves to Brian Orser - it will be limited to these rich people, and maybe some of their fans will pick up a pair of skates (which won't even be available that widely as they are usually not in South Asian or South East Asian countries, when it comes to the brands we all recognize as being great). The rest will still watch and play cricket and badminton, because it's easier to find places to play those things in India.

If a government has to choose between alleviating poverty in a large fraction of its population and building more ice rinks (rather more frivolous than some other sports), which one do you think will it choose?

And in general, if a population largely doesn't care for a certain type of artistry and presentation, and see their own not being appreciated by the people in charge of skating, why will they try to skate? They will cut their losses and try to stick to what they're appreciated at.

I would agree with you that country hopping rich kids do not inspire the growth of their sport in the country they compete for in most cases, but do consider the case of World ice dance medalist Galit Chait and her dad Boris Chait and Israel. (Chait - Moracci is the coach and choreographer for the Israeli ice dance team at this very event.)

The obsession of one hugely rich family has caused there to be ice rinks and skating in Israel. So it has happened once, but I agree it is not the most likely path. And Israel's very easy path to citizenship for Jews not born in Israel, and so a simple path to competing in the Olympics, has been key to acquiring a group of skilled skaters not named Chait.
I agree citizenship maybe has something to do with it, but it's still the case of an anomaly. Israel is a much smaller country than a lot of others in Asia, and differs from large swaths of Asia culturally. And Israeli fed is still very small indeed.

When it comes to the middle east, there's also an obvious elephant in the room, when it comes to men. Many men simply won't take up skating for a very specific reason. :shrug: That automatically kills three disciplines. Women can hardly reach a particular peak either with certain restrictions - there's even an ice rink in Dubai or some place, but hardly do I expect it to become a meccah of skating.

Skating unappealing to Greeks? I would suggest that the family and friends of Ms. Gabrielle Papadakis might disagree with you :)

True, she skates for France, but I would be willing to bet that at least some folks in the Greek community are very proud of her.

I have not, anywhere, said skating is unappealing to certain people in any population. There are many people across the world no matter which country or ethnicity that like certain esoteric areas, and they might take it up, and might become very good at it (opportunity provided). But that does not speak to an overall culture. Please read the rest of the conversation.

Papadakis was even born and raised in France. She's French for all purposes. That's already a reason her talent was able to be promoted more than had she been born and raised in Greece. France cares more about skating than Greece.
 
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dorispulaski

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We are indeed talking over each other, but what the heck

Indeed, Dubai has a nice rink.

The UAE holds international competitions, and has one moderately competent skater who qualified for the ISU Winter Universiade, Zahri Lari. She competes in a head scarf, too. There was a day I would have thought this impossible.

As to Middle Eastern countries that compete in all events, Israel does, but so does Turkey (fairly successfully in dance, but like there has been only one pair, and it was not good.). Cyprus has excellent young ice dancers, some ok and one good lady, and at least one man. No pairs as yet.

Nonetheless, we have an existence theorem here.

In my old field of work, there is thing called The Totalitarian Principle: That which is not forbidden is compulsory.

It appears you and I define possible differently.

So since it is not forbidden that some day there will be an effective federation and a few ice rinks in India or Greece, in my world it may happen, and in yours, not.

Also, we define success differently. Of course, poor small countries, however avidly they love an expensive sport are less likely to produce a top notch competitor. My definition of success is that they have some rinks, some skaters who skate well enough to appear at 4cc or Euros occasionally, and an effective federation.

If you view the aggregate of the small feds, every little once in a while one of them will produce a really stellar skater or team. Consider Denis Ten of Kazakhstan. Or Denise Beillman or Stefan Lambiel of Switzerland, or Denkova and Staviski, dancers from Bulgaria, all World and/or Olympic medallists or champions.

It has happened before and will happen again.

But finally, as to whether governments will first pay to help alleviate poverty before paying for sports frills, :laugh2:

One would hope so, but unfortunately not.

Does Russia?
Does the US?

So why should we expect other, smaller countries to behave nobly?
 

yume

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Mar 11, 2016
Can't miss what you don't know about. Of course there are some Greeks, some Indians, some Turks, some Malay, some Pakistanis, some Filipinos, some even from Timor-Leste who watch and enjoy the sport. That doesn't mean much more than them having a good internet connection.
:laugh2:
In my country many thinks that figure skating only happens in christmas shows. They don't even now that it's an olympic sport. And i'm tired to be seen as someone from another planet when i watch figure skating videos.
So i think they will hardly care if a kid with rich parents skate for our country someday.
 
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alexocfp

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:laugh2:
In my country many thinks that figure skating only happens in christmas shows. They don't even now that it's an olympic sport. And i'm tired to be seen as someone from another planet when i watch figure skating videos.
So i think they will hardly care if a kid with rich parents skate for our country someday.
Exactly. If you are from a country with a 6,000 dollar per capita gdp, you aren’t going to be inspired by someone traveling the world that is overmatched and last. You are more likely to be angry that they have your yearly salary to burn to travel the world. Or if they don’t even live or train in that country then they are just foreign citizens for the most part.

It might make the rich and well to do members of the audience watching in the rink all warm and fuzzy though. Haha

I can’t speak for any other nation, but I was born in NY to Greek parents.

I went to Greek school and speak Greek fluently. Greece has multiple daily sports papers and I read all the big sports sites daily since I’m a huge sports fan. In my 20 years reading the papers or the sites, I’ve never seen one article or mention of figure skating that wasn’t Tonya or Nancy based.

I never heard one figure skater be mentioned. Papadakis ranks so low on the Greek sports ladder than you can’t measure how minuscule it is.

Figure skating will never be a top or even low level sport in Greece. Nobody cared or will care.

As far as I saw, the major Cypriot sights didn’t cover Marilena’s win.

I grew up with Ecuadorians. Not one person or their families or friends ever mentioned figure skating once.

People in the figure skating bubble can pretend that the sport is making headway and it’s this close to breaking out all over the world but facts are facts. It’s a rich, elitist, expensive sport so there will always be a ceiling. Figure skating should embrace that rather than pretending it’s the sport of the masses. It’s not.

One look at the all time Olympic table shows there hasn’t been one medal won by a country that doesn’t have a winter sports scene or isn’t rich. It’s all mostly counties with harsh winters and rich European and Asian nations. And there has been no progress in 100 years but somehow we still “never know”

Truth is, we do know. Even the Spanish champions that are touted was a fleeting thing and still, in the pantheon, of Spanish sporting greats, how much recognition does he have in Spain? I know for a fact he didn’t inspire Spaniards to take up skating. Because Spain isn’t a winter sport, nor figure skating country. The boys want to be footballers, basketball players, or Moto GP riders.

And absolutely I have zero issue with ceilings. I brought them up to begin with. Had trusova been not allowed to enter these smaller events, that’s fine.

You should have smaller events for beginners and those learning the game. And for those rich princess skaters wasting daddy’s money.

But once you make it an ISU event, you should have minimum standards and requirements to enter.
 

Skatesocs

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Truth is, we do know. Even the Spanish champions that are touted was a fleeting thing and still, in the pantheon, of Spanish sporting greats, how much recognition does he have in Spain? I know for a fact he didn’t inspire Spaniards to take up skating. Because Spain isn’t a winter sport, nor figure skating country. The boys want to be footballers, basketball players, or Moto GP riders.
LOL. I mean even when it comes to South Korea, even though the scene is much better Before Kim Era (BKE :p ), it's still not reached the madness it used to have - and maybe never will. South Korea will always care more about Speed Skating.

One look at the all time Olympic table shows there hasn’t been one medal won by a country that doesn’t have a winter sports scene or isn’t rich. It’s all mostly counties with harsh winters and rich European and Asian nations. And there has been no progress in 100 years but somehow we still “never know”

I sometimes think this website has watched Cool Runnings a few too many times, but anyway :laugh:

Exactly. If you are from a country with a 6,000 dollar per capita gdp, you aren’t going to be inspired by someone traveling the world that is overmatched and last. You are more likely to be angry that they have your yearly salary to burn to travel the world. Or if they don’t even live or train in that country then they are just foreign citizens for the most part.
So i think they will hardly care if a kid with rich parents skate for our country someday.

Right. I don't think the general figure skating fanbase would get this. I've only ever seen a general sports fan make this (correct) point.
 

dorispulaski

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Skating is a niche sport most places, including the US. Only in Russia and Japan could you call it a major sport. It has a respectable following in Canada, the US and France. After that, it's down hill.

As I said, you and I are defining success differently.

But I am shocked to hear you think Spain does not have winter sports. I take it you never heard of the Pyrenees?


Spain won a bronze medal in snow board cross at the last Olympics, as well as Javi's bronze in skating.

It has competed successfully in Alpine skiing at previous Olympics.

As to skating, this week Spanish dancers Smart & Diaz won silver at Autumn Classic.

Last week the Spanish pair Barquero & Zandron won silver, and Spanish dancers Hurtado & Khaliavin won bronze at Lombardia Trophy.

And pre COVID, Spain had an ice show tour that Javi starred in 2019 with at least.5 cities hosting the show.


Skating ain't soccer/football, but there are enough people to pay to go to an ice show in Spain

For whatever reason, the Spanish women's program has not had as good a showing. Sonia Lafuente won a JGP bronze, but that was about it., but Spain is respectable in the other three disciplines and also fields two synchro teams that compete internationally, Team Mirim and Team Fusion.

Not to mention the ice show.
 

el henry

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:laugh2:
In my country many thinks that figure skating only happens in christmas shows. They don't even now that it's an olympic sport. And i'm tired to be seen as someone from another planet when i watch figure skating videos.
So i think they will hardly care if a kid with rich parents skate for our country someday.

But what about a completely homegrown fan favorite who comes from a very modest background and who trains in his home country?

such as Donovan Carrillo.:clap:

I am not Mexican and I would leave our Mexican friends to describe more accurately. But I do read Spanish and the coverage of figure skating has increased immeasurably with Donova’s rise. will it ever equal soccer? Of course not. As a general sports fan, I’m not looking for that pie in the sky for figure skating.:biggrin:

but one Donovan, raising the profile of figure skating in Mexico? (and he has spoken many times that this is his goal). In the words of the old MasterCard commercial, priceless.
 

Skatesocs

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I am not Mexican and I would leave our Mexican friends to describe more accurately. But I do read Spanish and the coverage of figure skating has increased immeasurably with Donova’s rise. will it ever equal soccer? Of course not. As a general sports fan, I’m not looking for that pie in the sky for figure skating.:biggrin:

but one Donovan, raising the profile of figure skating in Mexico? (and he has spoken many times that this is his goal). In the words of the old MasterCard commercial, priceless.
Could you show one person in the thread who has disagreed with you...?

(ETA: also, I'd assume Mexico is a different country entirely from where yume is from... why would you pose this question without knowing where they are from, and when you don't know Mexican culture itself?)

Skating is a niche sport most places, including the US.

Skating is not the kind of niche sport in the US as it is in the countries being mentioned. People having the option to go train in a world class ice rink vs not even is entirely different.
 
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el henry

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Could you show one person in the thread who has disagreed with you...?

are you saying you do agree with me?

and that Donovan competing in 2017 at Philly International with Max Aaron and Yaroslav Paniot and Vincent Zhou was a wonderful thing to do? ETA: whatever his scores were as compared to theirs.

and that Donovan should go to Worlds even if six Russian, Japanese or US men who have scored higher than him don’t go, and this does not mean figure skating is not a “real sport”, this is not diminishing figure skating popularity, it does not mean that I as a fan am afraid of diddly squat :biggrin: and general sports fans can take that position?

I am happy:)
 

Skatesocs

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are you saying you do agree with me?
OK, so you didn't read what I was saying in the thread at all, now I know :shrug:

But can you answer this:

(ETA: also, I'd assume Mexico is a different country entirely from where yume is from... why would you pose this question without knowing where they are from, and when you don't know Mexican culture itself?)


I am happy

Don't be. These are different topics, which have little bearing on what has been said and what I was saying specifically. Again, if you'd read what was being said, what I'd quoted there, and had interest in discussing in good faith without point scoring, then, maybe...?

Although, of course, as they say... ignorance is bliss.
 
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el henry

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OK, so you didn't read what I was saying in the thread at all, now I know :shrug:

But can you answer this:






Don't be. These are different topics, which have little bearing on what has been said and what I was saying specifically. Again, if you'd read what was being said, what I'd quoted there, and had interest in discussing in good faith without point scoring, then, maybe...?

Although, of course, as they say... ignorance is bliss.

did you not get my sense of humor? ;)

in any event, for me, they logically and practically intersect. One cannot have Donovan raising the profile of the sport in Mexico without Donovan at Worlds. One cannot have Donovan at Worlds without slots for each country in the World rather than some sort of ranking system by individuals. Or where Donovan competes against skaters who greatly out score him.

So that is the skating world I want.

this may also be a philosophical issue. Nothing but nothing in this world is a meritocracy where the the righteous are praised and hard work is rewarded and only the best win. (And that is not sarcastic, that is how I feel).

Nor does limiting competitions to the “best” affect sports’ popularity. Pointing to random sports popularity in random countries does not convince me otherwise, I could point to the opposite just as easily. We don’t have studies to prove one way or the other, if we did, I might change my mind.

I do not think I will convince those who believe otherwise and I do not think they will convince me, but it is interesting to state our opinions.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
But what about a completely homegrown fan favorite who comes from a very modest background and who trains in his home country?
such as Donovan Carrillo.:clap:
There is about 0 chance for that to happen here.
But who knows? If some rich european expatriate build an ice rink mainly for his fellow citizens but opens it to the public, with some "coaches", why not?

I think that there are more chances for that to happen in 2085 when the climate change will make snow fall here and get us interested in winter sports.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
There is about 0 chance for that to happen here.
But who knows? If some rich european expatriate build an ice rink mainly for his fellow citizens but opens it to the public, with some "coaches", why not?

I think that there are more chances for that to happen in 2085 when the climate change will make snow fall here and get us interested in winter sports.
:laugh2:
 

alexocfp

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
But what about a completely homegrown fan favorite who comes from a very modest background and who trains in his home country?

such as Donovan Carrillo.:clap:

I am not Mexican and I would leave our Mexican friends to describe more accurately. But I do read Spanish and the coverage of figure skating has increased immeasurably with Donova’s rise. will it ever equal soccer? Of course not. As a general sports fan, I’m not looking for that pie in the sky for figure skating.:biggrin:

but one Donovan, raising the profile of figure skating in Mexico? (and he has spoken many times that this is his goal). In the words of the old MasterCard commercial, priceless.
I for one have zero issue with anyone from any country skating in the Olympics or world championships.

If, and only if, they are one of the top 30 skaters in the world.

Can’t put into words how much I despise sports quotas.

If 25 out of 30 in one sport are from one country, that’s all right by me.

I want to see only the best at the best and most prestigious competitions.

Don’t care about having as many countries represented as possible. I don’t root for countries. I want only the best and most elite at the Olympics. Don’t care about human interest stories as much as competition.

Or, since I don’t watch any other skating other than the ladies, do your quotas in the other disciplines and remove them from the ladies. Which also makes Liza’s Olympic dreams more of a reality so there is the biggest reason to get rid of them. Haha
 
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