2021 U.S. Nationals: Senior Ladies - Free Skate

[Smith16]

I hate to break this to y’all but if Simone Biles were to fall 12 times at Olympic Trials she is still on the team...I know it’s a different sport. Ok just saying.

If the US Ladies had it's own Simone Biles they wouldn't be the position they are now.

 

[rollerblade]

Medal "ceremony"





(geez, twitter embedding is hard lol)

 

[treblemakerem]

I hate to break this to y’all but if Simone Biles were to fall 12 times at Olympic Trials she is still on the team...I know it’s a different sport. Ok just saying.

Yeah but you have to be Simone Biles. None of the US ladies are her. If Nathan falls on every jump tomorrow and Sunday though, they’d better still send him to worlds.

 

[alexocfp]

I hate to break this to y’all but if Simone Biles were to fall 12 times at Olympic Trials she is still on the team...I know it’s a different sport. Ok just saying.

And that would be terrible as well.

People that get chosen on reputation rather than current results always ends up badly.

It’s very prevalent in team sports as well unfortunately.

Especially when it’s your team and you want to get rid of the overpriced, underproducing talent but the owner loves him.

Let me run US figure skating. I’ll definitely have medal contenders in no time.

Start by giving a few Russian ladies US citizenship. That will solve 90% of the problem off the bat. Hahaha

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

2018. And perhaps interestingly, at that very Worlds, one of the USFS-preferred choices was the one to crumble under the pressure, too...

Huh? What competition are we talking about here? Jason and Jeremy went to the Olympics and Max and Jeremy went to Worlds. And the 4CC team was Ricky Dornbush, Adam Rippon, and Joshua Farris.

Was that the one who went on to be the reigning World bronze medalist and was the only US man in the past 10 years, other than Chen, who went to Worlds and was actually able to win a medal? Please feel free to refresh my memory.

Solid win by Bradie! Super confident and champion worthy. A bit gutted for Mariah but I’m glad she wasn’t held up too much. Karen was lovely and I’m SO thrilled for Amber - I was sure they would put her in 3rd but her GOE edged out Chen. I’m sure certain folks will be salty about it though.

Liu in 4th is good for her all things considering but I am also glad she wasn’t held up over Glenn/Chen either and was marked pretty fairly. Hopefully she can get her jumps back.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You know if people are rightly taking a chance on Amber, then I'll take a chance on Jeremy.

Jeremy's a wonderful person, skater, choreographer, and now coach.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Gonna wade past the discourse about the World team and say that I'm devastated for Mariah but utterly jubilant for Amber. (Did anyone but me predict Amber for second in the prediction game?? )

 

[kwanatic]

Great competition!

Bradie: No doubt about it, this was a deserved win. She was on in both programs. Last year she got outshined by Mariah and Alysa; this year she seemed more focused and determined than ever to go out there and take that title back. I'm just so sad she wasn't able to experience that performance in front of an audience and have that moment. It was such a powerful and intense program and Bradie delivered it so well, I know she'd have brought the house down. I admire her drive and determination so much. Congrats to her on her 2nd national title.

Amber: Finally! She's been a threat for a medal since she debuted back in 2015 but she could never keep it together for the FS. It was great to see her finally keep her focus and skate cleanly. And kudos to her for thinking on her feet and adding that double toe after she missed the combo at the beginning. That double toe was the difference between 2nd and 3rd. I wish she could have experienced this performance in front of an audience as well. It was her first time skating two clean programs and winning a medal--the crowd would have gone crazy for her and it sucks she doesn't get to have that moment. Very happy for her!

Karen: Such a joy to see her skating with consistency. Karen is just gorgeous to watch and she has so many excellent qualities. I actually would have had her second here in front of Amber. They are very similar in terms of their skating (fast and powerful) and it was close, but I'd give Karen the edge on artistry and expression. Karen has made some real strides this season and I'm so proud of her for fighting her way back to the podium. Fingers crossed she can carry this momentum into next season.

Alysa: I'm so proud of this girl. To see how far she's come over the past year is really impressive. Even without the big tricks she's highly competitive in this field. She was less than 2 points away from silver--on base points alone, had she rotated that downgraded 3S she'd have scored 216+ and won silver. That's gotta be encouraging for her and her team as they look towards next season. I loved her upgraded styling here: hair, makeup, dresses, all lovely. I'm excited for her. I hope she continues to work hard, tries to get those bigger elements back and takes that next step in terms of her programs next year. After all of the doubt, negativity, naysayers and straight up nastiness towards her this past year, Alysa proved she is far from being done in this sport. So proud of her!

Mariah: This just wasn't her year. Despite the fact she won SA, I felt like everyone else was progressing and getting better...but it seemed like Mariah was standing still if not going backwards a bit. I don't know if the expectation got to her or what, but this was a disappointing competition for her. The jumps were wonky and unsteady and the programs were not up to her usual par. This rearranged version of her ABBA program is better, but I still don't like it. I don't feel like her heart was in it. I hope they're able to go back to the drawing board. If a spot on the world/Olympic team is her goal she has a lot of work to do.

Lindsay: There's some real talent there. I'm interested to see how she develops. Her jumps are lovely when she lands them and her spins are gorgeous. Definitely needs more connection and personality in terms of her performance but I'm keeping my eye on her.

Audrey: Pretty sure she was feeling the pressure coming into this competition after winning bronze at SA. Her SP was a bit of thud but I was happy to see her fight her way back in the FS. Fingers crossed she takes this as a lesson and continues to grow.

Gracie: It's clear she's in much better shape in terms of her jumps. Her warmup jumps looked really solid. She has that spring and height to her lutz and flip. Her spins and steps are okay but they aren't focusing on getting the levels which is hurting her score. Essentially, she has the pieces to be competitive...she's just struggling to put them together. We're a year out from Beijing and her chances are looking pretty bleak. As of now she's a non-factor. I won't say it's impossible, but at this point it would take a monumental 180 turn for Gracie to put herself in the conversation for one of those top two spots.


Congrats to all of the medalists! Amber and Karen have proven their potential which makes it feel like the field suddenly got bigger. They've always been there as potential spoilers but you can't do jack with potential. It's official now--there are 5 contenders who are capable of getting one of those 2 spots to Beijing. Nationals should be really interesting next year.

And BTW, if worlds happens, there is zero doubt the team should be Bradie and Amber. I love Mariah but she hasn't proven herself to be competitive this year. Even when she won SA it was with an under-rotated combo in the SP and watered down content in the FS. Amber has the content and has definitely earned her spot.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

If the US Ladies had it's own Simone Biles they wouldn't be the position they are now.

Too simplistic and makes no sense. What are you talking about? The U.S. ladies are strong and have depth. There is no gymnastic analogy. In figure skating, politics has a great deal to do with judging placements. Plus, Rusfed politics and the rise of Eteri's teenybopper phenoms has overtaken the discipline and the sport.

The landscape has changed. The U.S. was spoiled during the Michelle Kwan era. U.S. fed has always been behind-the-times and have always lacked political savvy. Forget about long term, strategic thinking to benefit their athletes. It is what it is. But it's not as woeful as fans on every forum love to lament. I always point out that U.S. ladies still hold the record for most Worlds and Olympics medals. It will take Russia, Japan, and South Korea many more years to catch up to that record. At this rate, Russia might get there first, but they have a long way to go. And trends and politics can change.

I'm more concerned about the welfare and well-being of athletes and of the sport than about yahooing for teenybopper quads and 3-axels. When Eteri began making waves on the scene with Lipnitskaya et al., the key to her success was planned strategy and the packaging methodology that she learned during her time in the U.S. She gave Lipnitskaya something that camouflaged her weaknesses and brought a tear to audiences eyes. Medvedeva always had poor technique, but blazing determination, quick rotations and consistency. Med benefited from Gracie Gold's meltdown at 2016 Worlds. It is what it is.

Kaetlyn Osmond was the best all-around skater among the ladies at the 2018 Olympics, but due to the over-hype and Rusfed politics and competitive strengths of Zagitova and Medvedeva, it was apparently in the bag that the competition for gold was only between those two Russian ladies. But look who won Worlds that year. The following year Zagitova had grown, Medvedeva had fled to Orser for redemption. No more bells and whistles for Zagitova to hide her tech weaknesses. Her crossovers were ugly, but she's beautiful and her competitive mindset along with justification by the judges for her Olympic gold, helped Zagitova to win 2019 Worlds. Where is Zag now?

I will say that the current crop of Eteri phenoms don't require the bells and whistles quite as much, and a few of them learned better technique prior to being coached by Eteri so that helps. To each their own. I'm just not that into watching skinny, desperate teenyboppers with Olympic rings in their eyes being overpraised and over-rewarded for quad and 3-axel smackdowns.

I want to see complete expressive skating with technical excellence and depth by mature young ladies who aren't daunted by being disrespected and having a nearly impossible mountain to climb, often domestically and always internationally.

Thank you Bradie Tennell!!! Thank you Amber Glenn!!! Thank you Karen Chen!!!

Keep your head held high, Mariah Bell!!! Kudos Alysa Liu for your competitive grit!!!

 

[jenaj]

I think the World Team will be Bradie and Mariah. Mariah won Skate America this year and is well-known in international events. Amber would be lucky to finish in the top 10 at Worlds. She had the skate of her life but has a record of inconsistency. I don’t see the USFA sending her in the year that determines Olympic spots. The US doesn’t have a great chance of 3 spots with Mariah and Bradie but they have no chance with Amber and Bradie.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The US doesn’t have a great chance of 3 spots with Mariah and Bradie but they have no chance with Amber and Bradie.

The reality is that quads and 3-axels dominate the sport. Plus, the politics are not in U.S. ladies favor and that's been the case for a long time. Part of it involves backlash politically over MK's years of dominance (agree or disagree, I see what I see). Also a factor has been changing trends combined with U.S. fed's lack of political savvy and their cluelessness about how the landscape was changing.

Another problem is U.S. fed's Mom/Pop approach. The entire sport has that approach though. But anyway, putting all the eggs in one basket, is another problem U.S. fed falls into the habit of doing. Also over-favoriting and over-hyping their athletes.

Bradie should have won Skate America. It's to Bradie's credit that she didn't allow the results and nitpicking to get her down. She only worked harder. Meanwhile, Mariah didn't come into the season with strong programs, and being gifted at Skate America did not help her. The pressure of expectations only continued to build. In my view, U.S. fed seemed to be trying to make up for Mariah not winning the gold with her breakthrough performance at last year's Nationals. The publicity and praise was worthy, but a bit overmuch when it got to the point of over-hyping Mariah to win this year. The fed needs to temper that, but they never learn anything. They overdid it in almost desperate fashion with Alysa Liu too.

I will always feel Bradie should have won in 2019 and that Mariah should have won in 2020. Mariah actually had the chance to win in 2019, but one fall at the end of her program was the difference.

I'm glad for Alysa coming out and shutting up the naysayers this year. I was impressed by how calm and confident she looked. She's a gritty competitor, especially with everything she's been through over the past years. Hopefully, U.S. fed will let up on the hype. There's no way to predict whether Alysa will ever get back the 3-axels and quads, which are the reason that U.S. fed plucked her up and backed her to the high heavens. Young skaters go through growing pains, so it's never a good idea to over-reward their precocity at young ages, IMHO. U.S. fed is certainly attempting to back up their over-investment. I hope reasonable support continues for Alysa because she's a solid competitor even without the quads/ 3-axel. But will U.S. fed continue to support her without those weapons?

It will be interesting to see whether U.S. fed will continue to support Mariah. Or maybe they may be concerned about her ability to bounce back mentally. Plus, she doesn't have strong programs this season. If Amber can land her 3-axel, she has to be respected by international judges. And it's not as if Amber has never been on the international scene. Hopefully, if she's chosen to make the World team, Amber will stay centered and skate her best. The judges will always do as they please, but skating one's best means you can be proud no matter what. We still don't know for sure that Worlds will go forward.

I'm happy for Amber and Karen too for breaking through their personal challenges and laying their performances down so beautifully.

Cheers to Bradie Tennell! Take that all the negative critics with their nasty putdowns. Bradie has what it takes, no matter if she ever reaches the top of major international podiums or just gets to a major podium. She has the hunger, joy and confidence to continue improving, to give it her all and to stay solidly centered in who she is. For me, that's what matters most.

 

[Adjesusluvsu]

I hate to break this to y’all but if Simone Biles were to fall 12 times at Olympic Trials she is still on the team...I know it’s a different sport. Ok just saying.

If you know it's a different sport, is it relevant here?

And U.S. figure skating does not have a Simone Biles for ladies' singles. Like someone commented above, Nathan Chen is much closer to a Simone Biles than any of the female skaters. Also, Simone will have done at least eight routines to prove herself at U.S. Nationals while skaters only have two. If Simone tanks one event, she can still do well on the others. If someone tanks their short or free, there's not much hope for a win.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I do know that the American women's gymnastics field has so much depth (Biles, Lee, Hurd, McCallum, Wong, Hernandez/Memmel?, Skinner, etc) while the American women's figure skating field has no singular front runner or a strong team (opposed to the Russians or Japanese). So, they are in a very different position than gymnastics is.

Have a goodnight

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If you know it's a different sport, is it relevant here?

And U.S. figure skating does not have a Simone Biles for ladies' singles. Like someone commented above, Nathan Chen is much closer to a Simone Biles than any of the female skaters. Also, Simone will have done at least eight routines to prove herself at U.S. Nationals while skaters only have two. If Simone tanks one event, she can still do well on the others. If someone tanks their short or free, there's not much hope for a win.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I do know that the American women's gymnastics field has so much depth (Biles, Lee, Hurd, McCallum, Wong, Hernandez/Memmel?, Skinner, etc) while the American women's figure skating field has no singular front runner or a strong team (opposed to the Russians or Japanese). So, they are in a very different position than gymnastics is.

Have a goodnight

First of all, the US has a bunch of strong ladies, as proven tonight. And a team? LOL Please tell me you are joking when you said US doesn't have one of those. Pairs, I'd agree, but Ice Dance is a totally different story.

Last but definitely not least, can we all stop with the stupid gymnastics comparisons or non-comparisons?

 

[elbkup]

It's such a throwback in every single aspect --music, costume, makeup, hair, choreography--I for one feel at least 25 years younger.

People made similar comments about Bradie’s Cinderella packaging, skills, consistency back in the day and look at her now.. makes me smile

 

[EpperlyA]

But even the veterans were fresh blood at some point.

Bell isn’t sniffing a medal at Worlds. So take a shot with someone new and who knows how she does in 2 or 3 years.

The Bell ceiling is obvious. Like Abba said, take a chance on Amber. Haha

How old is Amber Glenn though? Does she have ‘2 or 3 years’ left where she’ll be in the conversation?

 

[elbkup]

How old is Amber Glenn though? Does she have ‘2 or 3 years’ left where she’ll be in the conversation?

She is 21 I think
An interesting point ... American ladies’ age range in this comp is 15 to 25, the majority being at the top end... Russian ladies champions tend to be younger and move on at a younger age with the exception of Elizabeth Tukt whom I greatly admire. I enjoy the American ladies discipline because the skaters are seasoned competitors with wonderful skills. I enjoy the young phenomenal Russian skaters as well .. it’s like comparing apples to oranges viewing wise so I enjoy each for who and what they are .. all are amazing!!

 

[EpperlyA]

Maybe sacrificing one spot next Olympics off future gains is the play here.

I really like Amber but this whole line of thinking seems really odd to me.

Do you honestly think Amber Glenn holds anywhere near enough promise/potential to suggest that the USFS would choose to send her to worlds this year even if they believed another skater had a better chance of helping to secure the US 3 Oly spots (with all of the exposure, revenue etc. that each female representative at the OGs brings the sport in the way of fresh interest/new talent alone), simply so that what? So that Amber Glenn, having had the experience of skating in this year’s worlds, *might* do better than she would have otherwise at a future worlds?

I can’t imagine the Fed making that kind of call if the skater in question was a Shcherbakova doppelgänger talent/competitive track-record-wise.

 

[elbkup]

The reality is that quads and 3-axels dominate the sport. Plus, the politics are not in U.S. ladies favor and that's been the case for a long time. Part of it involves backlash politically over MK's years of dominance (agree or disagree, I see what I see). Also a factor has been changing trends combined with U.S. fed's lack of political savvy and their cluelessness about how the landscape was changing.

Another problem is U.S. fed's Mom/Pop approach. The entire sport has that approach though. But anyway, putting all the eggs in one basket, is another problem U.S. fed falls into the habit of doing. Also over-favoriting and over-hyping their athletes.

Bradie should have won Skate America. It's to Bradie's credit that she didn't allow the results and nitpicking to get her down. She only worked harder. Meanwhile, Mariah didn't come into the season with strong programs, and being gifted at Skate America did not help her. The pressure of expectations only continued to build. In my view, U.S. fed seemed to be trying to make up for Mariah not winning the gold with her breakthrough performance at last year's Nationals. The publicity and praise was worthy, but a bit overmuch when it got to the point of over-hyping Mariah to win this year. The fed needs to temper that, but they never learn anything. They overdid it in almost desperate fashion with Alysa Liu too.

I will always feel Bradie should have won in 2019 and that Mariah should have won in 2020. Mariah actually had the chance to win in 2019, but one fall at the end of her program was the difference.

I'm glad for Alysa coming out and shutting up the naysayers this year. I was impressed by how calm and confident she looked. She's a gritty competitor, especially with everything she's been through over the past years. Hopefully, U.S. fed will let up on the hype. There's no way to predict whether Alysa will ever get back the 3-axels and quads, which are the reason that U.S. fed plucked her up and backed her to the high heavens. Young skaters go through growing pains, so it's never a good idea to over-reward their precocity at young ages, IMHO. U.S. fed is certainly attempting to back up their over-investment. I hope reasonable support continues for Alysa because she's a solid competitor even without the quads/ 3-axel. But will U.S. fed continue to support her without those weapons?

It will be interesting to see whether U.S. fed will continue to support Mariah. Or maybe they may be concerned about her ability to bounce back mentally. Plus, she doesn't have strong programs this season. If Amber can land her 3-axel, she has to be respected by international judges. And it's not as if Amber has never been on the international scene. Hopefully, if she's chosen to make the World team, Amber will stay centered and skate her best. The judges will always do as they please, but skating one's best means you can be proud no matter what. We still don't know for sure that Worlds will go forward.

I'm happy for Amber and Karen too for breaking through their personal challenges and laying their performances down so beautifully.

Cheers to Bradie Tennell! Take that all the negative critics with their nasty putdowns. Bradie has what it takes, no matter if she ever reaches the top of major international podiums or just gets to a major podium. She has the hunger, joy and confidence to continue improving, to give it her all and to stay solidly centered in who she is. For me, that's what matters most.

The Fed may take into consideration also that Mariah has an international Bronze Medal and has stood on an International podium... whether it should or not, this likely carries a great deal of weight in her favor

 

[cheerknithanson]

Sooooo I was exhausted and didn't watch it cause I was watching the Caps and also I was up since 5 am cause my body is used to it now for work. I looked at the results and.....all I can say is wow.

 

[Sjs5572]

The reality is that quads and 3-axels dominate the sport. Plus, the politics are not in U.S. ladies favor and that's been the case for a long time. Part of it involves backlash politically over MK's years of dominance (agree or disagree, I see what I see). Also a factor has been changing trends combined with U.S. fed's lack of political savvy and their cluelessness about how the landscape was changing.

Another problem is U.S. fed's Mom/Pop approach. The entire sport has that approach though. But anyway, putting all the eggs in one basket, is another problem U.S. fed falls into the habit of doing. Also over-favoriting and over-hyping their athletes.

Bradie should have won Skate America. It's to Bradie's credit that she didn't allow the results and nitpicking to get her down. She only worked harder. Meanwhile, Mariah didn't come into the season with strong programs, and being gifted at Skate America did not help her. The pressure of expectations only continued to build. In my view, U.S. fed seemed to be trying to make up for Mariah not winning the gold with her breakthrough performance at last year's Nationals. The publicity and praise was worthy, but a bit overmuch when it got to the point of over-hyping Mariah to win this year. The fed needs to temper that, but they never learn anything. They overdid it in almost desperate fashion with Alysa Liu too.

I will always feel Bradie should have won in 2019 and that Mariah should have won in 2020. Mariah actually had the chance to win in 2019, but one fall at the end of her program was the difference.

I'm glad for Alysa coming out and shutting up the naysayers this year. I was impressed by how calm and confident she looked. She's a gritty competitor, especially with everything she's been through over the past years. Hopefully, U.S. fed will let up on the hype. There's no way to predict whether Alysa will ever get back the 3-axels and quads, which are the reason that U.S. fed plucked her up and backed her to the high heavens. Young skaters go through growing pains, so it's never a good idea to over-reward their precocity at young ages, IMHO. U.S. fed is certainly attempting to back up their over-investment. I hope reasonable support continues for Alysa because she's a solid competitor even without the quads/ 3-axel. But will U.S. fed continue to support her without those weapons?

It will be interesting to see whether U.S. fed will continue to support Mariah. Or maybe they may be concerned about her ability to bounce back mentally. Plus, she doesn't have strong programs this season. If Amber can land her 3-axel, she has to be respected by international judges. And it's not as if Amber has never been on the international scene. Hopefully, if she's chosen to make the World team, Amber will stay centered and skate her best. The judges will always do as they please, but skating one's best means you can be proud no matter what. We still don't know for sure that Worlds will go forward.

I'm happy for Amber and Karen too for breaking through their personal challenges and laying their performances down so beautifully.

Cheers to Bradie Tennell! Take that all the negative critics with their nasty putdowns. Bradie has what it takes, no matter if she ever reaches the top of major international podiums or just gets to a major podium. She has the hunger, joy and confidence to continue improving, to give it her all and to stay solidly centered in who she is. For me, that's what matters most.

Alysa started hitting her 3a again in practice as of last week.