2021 US Nationals: Men's FS - Thoughts and Observations

TontoK

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If Vincent skates like he did in this free program and Jason gets a quad then we could see a Nathan Yaro Jason podium, given Yaro can jump almost every quad in practice (other than Loop).
A year is a long time away. We could see many variations of the podium.

In addition to the skaters you mention, there is Torgeshev (a favorite of mine who will be a threat when his quads and health stabalize) and Malinin (who is young, already has three types of quads that I've seen, and will be a threat if his PCS improve... he seems very determined). In addition, Naumov, who I was unfamiliar with, impressed me greatly. I don't know what jumps he's working on. Although they had bad competitions this year, it doesn't mean that Hiwatashi, Pulkinen, and Alex K will not rebound.

Who knows... we'll have to see. There seem to be plenty of US men right on the cusp, not all of whom seem content to "wait their turn."
 

el henry

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A year is a long time away. We could see many variations of the podium.

In addition to the skaters you mention, there is Torgeshev (a favorite of mine who will be a threat when his quads and health stabalize) and Malinin (who is young, already has three types of quads that I've seen, and will be a threat if his PCS improve... he seems very determined). In addition, Naumov, who I was unfamiliar with, impressed me greatly. I don't know what jumps he's working on. Although they had bad competitions this year, it doesn't mean that Hiwatashi, Pulkinen, and Alex K will not rebound.

Who knows... we'll have to see. There seem to be plenty of US men right on the cusp, not all of whom seem content to "wait their turn."

I don't think any US man "waits his turn", as all of our men, from youngest to oldest are competitive and fierce. The youngsters won't wait and the oldsters aren't going to just let them take over. As it should be. :)

By the way, report from Juniors SP, (ETA: may be the wrong thread, but here now, oops) I liked the two leaders, particularly Jacob Sanchez 14 years old and an adorable fireplug. Does not have big powerful jumps, but performance chops to spare. And a skater I did not know at all, Maxim Zharkov. Has elegant jumps, excellent lines. Coached by Artem Torgashev, Andrew's father.

Of course the FS is tonight and all that could change :biggrin:
 

ccjump

Spectator
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Aug 29, 2020
I like Jason's short programs..
That said, I feel the scoring is a bit too lenient for most skaters. 2 weeks after watching Japan Nationals, it seems it's 2 completely different worlds. And I guess I'm not alone in this. Saw another video talking about it - https://youtu.be/jgULlX6pNqU
 

TontoK

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I like Jason's short programs..
That said, I feel the scoring is a bit too lenient for most skaters. 2 weeks after watching Japan Nationals, it seems it's 2 completely different worlds. And I guess I'm not alone in this. Saw another video talking about it - https://youtu.be/jgULlX6pNqU
On the other hand... I literally laughed out loud at some of the jump GOE awarded at Japanese Nationals.

While I have not done an indepth analysis... mostly because I don't care enough to do that... my casual observation was that the Tech Panel was tougher at US Nationals in regards to spin and step levels than I've seen almost anywhere. And they drew blood from lower ranked skaters and the favorites. No one was immune.
 

readernick

Medalist
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Dec 5, 2015
I like Jason's short programs..
That said, I feel the scoring is a bit too lenient for most skaters. 2 weeks after watching Japan Nationals, it seems it's 2 completely different worlds. And I guess I'm not alone in this. Saw another video talking about it - https://youtu.be/jgULlX6pNqU
Japanese Nationals was harsh on its ladies skaters. ( They always are) They were lenient in ice dance ( I can only assume that the Japanese technical panel isn't as experienced as they are with other disciplines) , and fair enough in men's ( with the exception of the harsh call given to Yuzuru's spin). They did not overscore as much as the US or Russia, but I don't think they underscored either. I think Russian scoring ( in the Men's event) was the most ridiculous because the PCS given to some of the skaters for very very messy performances was ludicrous. The US overscored its top three skaters, but not the men below them and the technical calling was fair. Also, Jason's PCS was deserved. No other male skater has choreography as complex and unique as his SP. Right now, it seems to me the top men's skaters in the World are the top three skaters at US nationals, the top three at Japanese Nationals, and Kolyada. Sadovsky or another Canadian skater also might be in the conversation as would Boyang ( if clean) and perhaps a few European skaters. I don't think World's will happen this year so it will be interesting to see the skaters compete next year and see is able to improve their form in international competition.
 
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RatedPG

On the Ice
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For me after watching US Nationals, it is:

1-2: Chen, Hanyu (battle for gold)
3-5: Shoma, Zhou, Boyang (battle for bronze)
6-8: Yuma K., Jason Brown, Mikhail K., (outside contenders for a medal)
9-14: Russian #2, Canadian #1, Morris K, Han Yan, Italian #1, Cha
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Skaters like Paniot have actually improved. Jason had a UR and fall on the 4T here which seems to be par for the course.
Jason also had not competed in nearly a year, and had had a recurrence of an injury during that period, which I note is not something being widely discussed, especially by those all-to-eager to shove Jason onto the trash-heap and proclaim he'll never get the quad.

Though the obsession still rankles. It is still not so long ago, after all, that the USFS utterly rejected the push towards quads and their one man who could do them...the USFS' about-face only happened when they realised Chen was a cute kid who could.
 

labgoat

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A year is a long time away. We could see many variations of the podium.

In addition to the skaters you mention, there is Torgeshev (a favorite of mine who will be a threat when his quads and health stabalize) and Malinin (who is young, already has three types of quads that I've seen, and will be a threat if his PCS improve... he seems very determined). In addition, Naumov, who I was unfamiliar with, impressed me greatly. I don't know what jumps he's working on. Although they had bad competitions this year, it doesn't mean that Hiwatashi, Pulkinen, and Alex K will not rebound.

Who knows... we'll have to see. There seem to be plenty of US men right on the cusp, not all of whom seem content to "wait their turn."
Update on Alex K
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
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Update on Alex K

Thank you; @Makemi posted a link to the Russian original in the US men’s thread (unless I‘m missing something, FS gossips does not appear to have translated the entire article? I use Google translate, as I do not read Russian).

I am loving Alex K.’s maturity, independence of thought and honesty in this article. Although much of it is political which can’t be discussed here, it is well worth reading.

and my wild jumper will retire after next year:cry: even though we have another year to see him skate, I miss him already in advance.

and also advisory, it would seem, for those thinking that Yaro may get citizenship before the Olys. if Alex K can’t get citizenship by then, I doubt Yaroslav can,🤷‍♀️
 

anonymoose_au

Making sequined tie and vest combos cool
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Update on Alex K
Good to hear from Alexei!

I'm a bit sad that he's planning on finishing up his skating career, but he's obviously put a lot of thought into it. I hope he has an awesome 2021-2022 season and go out on a high :)
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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For me after watching US Nationals, it is:

1-2: Chen, Hanyu (battle for gold)
3-5: Shoma, Zhou, Boyang (battle for bronze)
6-8: Yuma K., Jason Brown, Mikhail K., (outside contenders for a medal)
9-14: Russian #2, Canadian #1, Morris K, Han Yan, Italian #1, Cha

Hmm, I will say at the moment:

1. Chen, 2. Hanyu, 3. Shoma
4. Boyang, 5. Kolyada, 6. Aymoz (you tried to erase him! :wink:)
7. Kagiyama, 8. Zhou, 9. Aliev
10. Cha, 11. Brown, 12. Sadovsky
13. Morris K., 14. Grassl, 15. Han Yan
 

Jeanie19

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Hmm, I will say at the moment:

1. Chen, 2. Hanyu, 3. Shoma
4. Boyang, 5. Kolyada, 6. Aymoz (you tried to erase him! :wink:)
7. Kagiyama, 8. Zhou, 9. Aliev
10. Cha, 11. Brown, 12. Sadovsky
13. Morris K., 14. Grassl, 15. Han Yan
Yes Aymoz should be in top 6 , and I think Vasiljevs should be in top 15.
 

lzxnl

Final Flight
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Nov 8, 2018
Hmm, I will say at the moment:

1. Chen, 2. Hanyu, 3. Shoma
4. Boyang, 5. Kolyada, 6. Aymoz (you tried to erase him! :wink:)
7. Kagiyama, 8. Zhou, 9. Aliev
10. Cha, 11. Brown, 12. Sadovsky
13. Morris K., 14. Grassl, 15. Han Yan
I think Kagiyama might give your 4-6 more of a fight than you might expect. He actually has a higher base value than Kolyada (who I believe only has one type of quad although I might be wrong?) because he doesn't have doubles across both programs and is fairly stable with his jumps, and Boyang is wildly inconsistent. 4-8 are probably hard to call. If Vincent lands everything, he's a contender for bronze. I think they all deserve to be categorised together.
 

Apple1078

Rinkside
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Mar 6, 2020
Not gonna lie, I really want Jason to make the Olympic team next year so... how realistic is it for Paniot to get citizenship before Beijing 2022? He could potentially upset the apple cart at nationals next year, especially if he is consistent in the Fall and gets his citizenship in time. He looked impressive with 3 (or was it 4) clean quads in the FS. Jason really needs to have a quad next season.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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I think Kagiyama might give your 4-6 more of a fight than you might expect. He actually has a higher base value than Kolyada (who I believe only has one type of quad although I might be wrong?) because he doesn't have doubles across both programs and is fairly stable with his jumps, and Boyang is wildly inconsistent. 4-8 are probably hard to call. If Vincent lands everything, he's a contender for bronze. I think they all deserve to be categorised together.

There's many possibilities yes, all of those 3-9 may have good chances to win a medal, depending on how the field shakes out. I think Kolyada can get nearly Hanyu level of PCS, Aymoz deserves to be up there too if his programs are as great as they have been, and Boyang seems to be building back up consistency and has the huge jumping potential. I expect 7-9 to get less gifts from the judges, but they still have great ability and can take advantage of others faltering.
 

TontoK

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Not gonna lie, I really want Jason to make the Olympic team next year so... how realistic is it for Paniot to get citizenship before Beijing 2022? He could potentially upset the apple cart at nationals next year, especially if he is consistent in the Fall and gets his citizenship in time. He looked impressive with 3 (or was it 4) clean quads in the FS. Jason really needs to have a quad next season.

I enjoy Jason, too, and I wish him the best in the coming year.

But, your post seems to be saying that you're worried about Paniot getting better, beating Jason, and earning an Olympic spot... and you're hoping he can't be selected regardless of score or placement. That doesn't seem fair to Paniot, who is surely working hard to achieve his goals. From what I've gathered, he might have a difficulty securing citizenship in time, so it's probably moot... but still... I'm not rooting against anyone.
 

Jeanie19

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I enjoy Jason, too, and I wish him the best in the coming year.

But, your post seems to be saying that you're worried about Paniot getting better, beating Jason, and earning an Olympic spot... and you're hoping he can't be selected regardless of score or placement. That doesn't seem fair to Paniot, who is surely working hard to achieve his goals. From what I've gathered, he might have a difficulty securing citizenship in time, so it's probably moot... but still... I'm not rooting against anyone.
And Todd Eldredge has only been Paniot's coach for six months, I think next season we will see better spins and step sequences. I doubt he will make the Olympic team, but I hope for 4CC's.
 

Apple1078

Rinkside
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Mar 6, 2020
I enjoy Jason, too, and I wish him the best in the coming year.

But, your post seems to be saying that you're worried about Paniot getting better, beating Jason, and earning an Olympic spot... and you're hoping he can't be selected regardless of score or placement. That doesn't seem fair to Paniot, who is surely working hard to achieve his goals. From what I've gathered, he might have a difficulty securing citizenship in time, so it's probably moot... but still... I'm not rooting against anyone.
Yeah, I can see it could be interpreted that way. Not the intention. I just love watching Jason skate. That's all. Next year's Nationals could be quite an embarrassment of riches with Nathan, Vincent, Jason, Paniot, Torgashev back etc. Quite a strong field.
 
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