2021 Worlds: Ladies FS "Thoughts and Observations" | Page 25 | Golden Skate

2021 Worlds: Ladies FS "Thoughts and Observations"

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Noup, people follow the sport because they like to watch figure skating, no matter who is the skater behind the skate, or nation behind the skaters, or what is the judging score behind those skates. Die-hard fans are watching the sport because of one particular skater or one nation/continent they are rooting for a win. And they are the one talking about corruption, not the regular people/fans of a sport.
Other than very casual fans, the majority of skating fans will have favorite skaters and most people tend to root for their country. I agree that if that is carried to the extreme then that becomes problematic. But if you try to maintain your intetgrity it shouldn't be a problem. I disagree, however, that fans that dont have a rooting interest arent knowledgeable enough to recognize corruption in the sport. They continue to watch despite the corruption, because they do enjoy watching the skating. That doesn't mean they don't realize the ISU is corrupt. Professional wrestling has many more fans than figure skating, and all those fans know it isnt a real competition. Although I do admit that professional wrestling is often times more fairly officiated than most skating events, and the people running it have more integrity than ISU officials for sure.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
She managed to make up the gap because others faltered.

She actually would have done better if she had only done two quads. And the ladies aren't better jumpers.

The ladies definitely aren't better jumpers. 2 clean quads were landed in the FD in the ladies event compared to more than 30 in the men's event. ( And all the men jump 3As) Sasha is definitely the lady with the best quads at this competition but compare her quads to many of the Men's and they aren't that impressive. If you want to see pretty jumps watch Kolyada, Yuma, Nathan, Yuzuru etc.... and unlike the ladies the men have actual programs full of interesting unique personality and good SS. I think ladies is going through what men's did 10-12 years ago were the technical starts to improve and artistry is left behind. So, the ladies event may be unwatchable for 10 years on bad days ( like men's could be.... 2014 Olympics anyone) but eventually it should improve.
 
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lzxnl

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
The ladies definitely aren't better jumpers. Literally 2 clean quads were landed in the FD in the ladies event compared to more than 30 in the men's event. ( And all the men jump 3As) Sasha is definitely the lady with the best quads at this competition but compare her quads to many of the Men's and they aren't that impressive. If you want to see pretty jumps watch Kolyada, Yuma, Nathan, Yuzuru etc.... and unlike they ladies the men have actual programs full of interesting unique personality and good SS. I think ladies is going through what men's did 10-12 years ago were the technical starts to improve and artistry is left behind. So, the ladies event may be unwatchable for 10 years on bad days ( like men's could be.... 2014 Olympics anyone) but eventually it should improve.
It remains to be seen whether or not the current trend with very short-lived girls skaters (they're not ladies, let's be real) will change as the discipline evolves. If so, I don't think the ladies' field will come out of this much like the way the men's field did, as one discipline will have more well-known names to attract newer fans, and one discipline will be too ephemeral for more casual fans to get into the sport.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Other than very casual fans, the majority of skating fans will have favorite skaters and most people tend to root for their country. I agree that if that is carried to the extreme then that becomes problematic. But if you try to maintain your intetgrity it shouldn't be a problem. I disagree, however, that fans that dont have a rooting interest arent knowledgeable enough to recognize corruption in the sport. They continue to watch despite the corruption, because they do enjoy watching the skating. That doesn't mean they don't realize the ISU is corrupt. Professional wrestling has many more fans than figure skating, and all those fans know it isnt a real competition. Although I do admit that professional wrestling is often times more fairly officiated than most skating events, and the people running it have more integrity than ISU officials for sure.
What are you talking about? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but professional wrestling is fake as hell. It's a scripted athletic soap opera that is purely meant for entertainment. "Fairly officiated"?! A referee will turn his back just at the exact moment that one wrestler hits the other with a chair. Because it's all choreographed. Unless you were just joking, I can't even imagine how one even begins to compare the two, let alone use pro wrestling as a barometer for how the ISU should conduct itself.
 

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
What are you talking about? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but professional wrestling is fake as hell. It's a scripted athletic soap opera that is purely meant for entertainment. "Fairly officiated"?! A referee will turn his back just at the exact moment that one wrestler hits the other with a chair. Because it's all choreographed. Unless you were just joking, I can't even imagine how one even begins to compare the two, let alone use pro wrestling as a barometer for how the ISU should conduct itself.
I think you are right. Figure skating is slightly more real than professional wrestling. Since wrestling admits it is fake, that isnt saying much. Although it does indicate that the people that run pro wrestling are more honest than ISU officials.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I think you are right. Figure skating is slightly more real than professional wrestling. Since wrestling admits it is fake, that isnt saying much. Although it does indicate that the people that run pro wrestling are more honest than ISU officials.
Slightly more real? LMAO, okay, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this.

There is literally a wikipedia page devoted to Pro Wrestling controversies. :laugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Professional_wrestling_controversies
 

BlissfulSynergy

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Mars
I don't always look at all of the ladies events. These 2021 Worlds results is a great reason why ladies just isn't my vibe for the most part. I saw the last couple of flights in the ladies sp, and I finally looked at the entire ladies fs event earlier today. Wow. Messy for too many of the top ladies.

I heard there was a Russian sweep, and then I heard something about falls, but I didn't know who fell. Honestly, although I'm happy for Elizaveta after all she's been through, it is disappointing that she didn't skate with confidence. She managed to land two 3-axels, but she had an error on the second jump in the first 3-axel combo. Plus, she gave short shrift to performance quality, as aesthetics are not her strong suit anyway. But she clearly had nerves that she was barely able to manage, especially with that awkward fall. Well, I guess good for Liza for pulling through. Still, the judges were rather generous in rewarding her. I wonder how much the judges being so generous is related to politics.

For example, 69+ for Liza on PCS; only 66+ for Loena Hendrickx; for Bradie, 67+; for Olga Mikutina of Austria, 61+; Trusova also at 66+, only percentage points behind Hendrickx. Kaori Sakamoto was given 67.70 on PCS, while Karen Chen was only rewarded 67.89. While Kaori has excellent SS, she wasn't even adequately rewarded on SS, only 8.75. Meanwhile, Scherbakova was given a whopping 9.21 on SS!!! Say what?! Scherbakova was also given 1.45 GOE on a flying spin that was traveling. In another climactic spin, Scherbakova could barely get the revolutions in due to moving so slowly. And yet, the judges still gave her positive .14 GOE. Seriously? They wouldn't have given such high points for those kind of problems to other skaters that are more harshly judged. I don't know if something was taken off these elements later. I haven't checked the protocols.

I realize that Karen and Bradie had some under-rotations. Still, I think that Bradie was overly harshly judged in comparison to Hendrickx who on replay appeared to have possible URs as well (perhaps two that were very close, but it doesn't appear they were called). Kaori is a better technical skater than Hendrickx, Bradie, and Karen, but somehow I suppose the judges don't favor Kaori in the way they seem to prefer the Russians with the big quads and triple axels.

Such a mess, really in terms of the judging. It looks like Kaori is often harshly judged or held back, even when she skates well. Kaori does need to work on presenting or projecting a bit better in terms of fully expressing the music, but her skating is gorgeous with her lovely knee bend and wonderful SS. I notice that Satoko who obviously is failing on the jumps a lot, was low-balled on PCS at 63.27. That tells us how earlier skaters are given short shrift, regardless of areas where they may excel. Apparently, with the mistakes on tech elements, the judges were loathe to reward Satoko. Maybe Satoko's coaching handlers/ decisionmakers should have just let her maintain her small but mostly consistent hummingbird jumps. She simply doesn't get enough height, but now she's also lost confidence and consistency. Whatever tech revamping is being done seems to be throwing her off further.

For me, Olga Mikutina, Karen Chen, Loena Hendrickx, Kaori Sakamoto, and Bradie Tennell had the best free skate performances, in terms of aesthetics and well-rounded, complete programs. I also think Alexandra Trusova has improved her presentation, but I dislike seeing so many falls bringing her up to first place in the free skate, simply because she included five quads, not all successfully executed. I realize she was trying to come back from 12th place in sp, by planning five quads, but less is more if you skate clean. Mikutina certainly deserved higher PCS with her lovely music, and beautifully expressive free skate. Karen arguably deserved a podium placement with two consistent and clean performances (aside from UR calls). Karen was probably the most consistent out of all the competitors. Now, she needs to strategize for cleaning up URs and somehow gaining more tech points.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Mars
So, the ladies event may be unwatchable for 10 years on bad days ( like men's could be.... 2014 Olympics anyone) but eventually it should improve.
You think, or you hope? LOL! Excuses, excuses! My word. Even with falls, the men have definitely been more interesting and entertaining for quite awhile. The ladies discipline has different problems than the men's division had regarding quads, in addition to a slew of other unique issues, as well as similar issues regarding scoring and competition structure.

Also, it's not as if quads are fully figured out for the men either. Even now, there are still only a handful of men with reliable multiple quads, and only one guy with five to six quads. Albeit quite a few men have at least one to two quads, even if they lack consistency on them. I'm not sure the quad conundrum will ever be completely ironed out. It was because of Nathan and his quads that the ISU finally decided to reverse the over-rewarding of quads a few years ago. The people running the sport just don't know what to do, so they put band-aids on problems and limp along till the next scandal or new development that pushes them to act.

Apparently, Trusova's fs score, even with messy quads and falls, put a ton of pressure on the top ladies, except for Karen, who seemed to skate with confidence. Bradie, I think, was simply upset with herself in not landing the 3/3 in the sp, which kept her a bit behind where she wanted to be for the fs. Obviously, Bradie should have just been on fire like she was at U.S. Natls, and maybe she could have pulled up a bit higher with all of the meltdowns. Bradie certainly shouldn't have allowed herself to be behind Hendrickx and Mikutina. Fortunately, for Bradie and Karen, the Korean young ladies didn't skate well in the fp -- both Haein and Yelim seem to need some seasoning and maturing to manage consistency across two programs at a major event. Kihira's mistakes were rather surprising. It seemed as if Kihira's errors coming after Liza's less than stellar performance, gave the judges more impetus to push Kihira down in the standings. It appears that the Japanese ladies have to be perfect more-so than the Russian ladies.

With the depth of talent (and now with some talented newcomers in the Korean ladies, and the Austrian, Mikutina), the ladies division is going to be even more of a battle royale. In the U.S., whew, who is going to make it? I think Karen has probably cemented a ticket to Beijing if she continues along this path of confidence next season. Bradie, Mariah, and Amber, plus any other wild card will be fighting tooth and nail for the other two spots. But I guess first, a third Olympic spot for U.S. ladies has to be finalized at Nebelhorn.

Another factor for some athletes could be the lack of a normal competitive season under their belts, leading to either endurance issues or hiccoughs in mental focus. But what a messy, subpar showing for the three who topped the podium. SMH
 

CellarDweller

Ice Time
Medalist
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
United-States
In the U.S., whew, who is going to make it? I think Karen has probably cemented a ticket to Beijing if she continues along this path of confidence next season. Bradie, Mariah, and Amber, plus any other wild card will be fighting tooth and nail for the other two spots. But I guess first, a third Olympic spot for U.S. ladies has to be finalized at Nebelhorn.

It's going to be quite a battle if we get that 3rd spot.

Aside from your mentions above, there is also Alyssa Liu, if she's got her jumps back from her growth spurt. If she's got her axel and quads back, the US will want to send her.
 

Olympic

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I come late to the game. I was enthralled w/ the men so much (for good reason) that I sort of camped out in the men's thread.

The ladies? Eh. For me, there was a disconnect between the ladies that were watchable and the ladies that accumulated the highest point totals.

Hendrickx, Sakamoto and Chen were the pleasurable viewing experiences. Sakamoto's skating is a hybrid of Midori Ito and Shizuka Arakawa. I love the Matrix program. I love the Fever program for Hendrickx, and I really don't like Beyonce. Karen Chen's strategy paid off here but I'd like to see her return to the harder jump layouts at 2020 4CCs - I believe she did a 3-eul-3 at 4CCs

Shcherbakova has the capability to produce lovely lines and produce a whole package. I am mostly fine with her skating a triple-only program that produces several beautiful moments and getting a big score, but she muscles a lot of jumps and it doesn't look natural. She also doesn't maximize her body line potential, but she is better than I remember last year. I really wish she could find another coach - Something about Eteri technique and her skaters' programs drive me nuts.

Tuktamysheva - Love her, love her technique, love her idea behind the LP, but didn't like the actual program. I am glad that she made a statement by winning a silver here.

Trusova - I was waiting for a nationals type performance here but apparently she froze. I also think she's improved and I like watching her more powerful jumps with speed. Unfortunately. Those programs weren't what would make people stand up at the end of a performance. Glad though that there is a quadster NOT skating w/ Eteri in Russia.

Kihira - Absolutely devastating for her. I know she pushed herself to keep up w/ her Russian competitors and that is valiant. I applaud her for that. I do love what Lambiel did for her in the SP at least (where she was lowballed).

Tennell - She goes to Tom Z to work on a 3A which isn't ready, and coincidentally her jumps suffer. I like that she tries hard, but she wasn't even able to land a 3-3. SIGH. Her team has a lot of choices to make.
 

José Rosé

Spectator
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
The judging was absolutely diabolical..

lol, Truly.

Always remember that professional figure skating is a business first, and a sport second.

The judges reward the BIG tricks, because they make the news and increase viewership which leads to $$ MONEY $$.

I think this is why the Japanese ladies are being underscored. none of them have the big tricks.

The ISU wants America to have 3 spots in the Olympics, because America is the #1 economy in the world, and if they have 3 spots in the olympics, more Americans will watch the sport, which equals $$ MONEY $$

Remember, it's all about the money. Politics is also all about the money money money.

Even Eteri and her school are ALL about the money.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
lol, Truly.

Always remember that professional figure skating is a business first, and a sport second.

The judges reward the BIG tricks, because they make the news and increase viewership which leads to $$ MONEY $$.

I think this is why the Japanese ladies are being underscored. none of them have the big tricks.

The ISU wants America to have 3 spots in the Olympics, because America is the #1 economy in the world, and if they have 3 spots in the olympics, more Americans will watch the sport, which equals $$ MONEY $$

Remember, it's all about the money. Politics is also all about the money money money.

Even Eteri and her school are ALL about the money.
Welcome to Golden Skate. Post often.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
I come late to the game. I was enthralled w/ the men so much (for good reason) that I sort of camped out in the men's thread.

The ladies? Eh. For me, there was a disconnect between the ladies that were watchable and the ladies that accumulated the highest point totals.
Tennell - She goes to Tom Z to work on a 3A which isn't ready, and coincidentally her jumps suffer. I like that she tries hard, but she wasn't even able to land a 3-3. SIGH. Her team has a lot of choices to make.
Bradie's boot on her right foot (the picking foot) disintegrated during practice. She had it taped together, but clearly was nervous when going into lutz and flip because she had no confidence that the boot was going to make it through the performance. Bradie was fantastic at Nationals, so there's no problem with her jumps when she has working equipment.

Let's see how she does at WTT with a better pair of boots.
 

Dawn825

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Im not saying I dont believe it, I just dont understand how this stuff happens so frequently. Skaters skate in their skates (lol) every single day, but somehow they get to the competition and their skates suddenly become completely unusable. Does the cabin pressure on the plane crush them or something?
 

Matthew

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Im not saying I dont believe it, I just dont understand how this stuff happens so frequently. Skaters skate in their skates (lol) every single day, but somehow they get to the competition and their skates suddenly become completely unusable. Does the cabin pressure on the plane crush them or something?
Skaters should really have a second pair of boots ready which they already have been broken into, now, shouldn't they. They can practice once every week in them, so, they keep their overall knowledge about them, the specialties of skating in them. Even if this is not ideal since adaptation to them can't be as complete as to their "real" pair of boots, something has to be done to avoid such kind of issue, finally.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
Tennell's boots are Edeas, which are not made of leather but some manmade material which is prone to disintegrating under heavy use.
Yeah, Edeas seem to have a weird habit of breaking down suddenly as opposed to gradually wearing out. Although multiple other boot brands use synthetic materials nowadays, they don't seem to undergo the same breakdown pattern. I wonder if it's because Edeas are designed to flex mainly at the tongue instead of the whole boot.

The last couple of high-profile boot failures in competition were both Edea Pianos (Medvedeva at the 2019/20 season Russian Nationals, Stephen Gogolev at Junior Worlds 2020). Gogolev said in competition that the tongue suddenly broke on one of his jumps.

Nathan Chen who wears Jackson Supremes had some boot problems at Worlds 2017 but that's the only incident I recall with a non-Edea boot. His boots were already going soft before the competition, which is different (and easier to prevent) compared to having them fail without warning.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Im not saying I dont believe it, I just dont understand how this stuff happens so frequently. Skaters skate in their skates (lol) every single day, but somehow they get to the competition and their skates suddenly become completely unusable. Does the cabin pressure on the plane crush them or something?
Remember Nationals when Mirai's boot was split open. She was sitting next to Tom in the K-N-C and you could see it clear as day. Sometimes things happen that are beyond a skaters control.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Remember Nationals when Mirai's boot was split open. She was sitting next to Tom in the K-N-C and you could see it clear as day. Sometimes things happen that are beyond a skaters control.

Well at this point with the number of athletes that have had "boot issues" come up in relation to big competitions over several years, it seems like poor management/preparation that big-name, elite athletes don't have a back-up pair of skates with them especially in major events like Worlds, Olympics or Nationals that determines who goes to Europeans/4cc/Worlds/Olympics in case something happens to their primary pair.

And based on what Flying Feijoa detailed out - if I were an elite level skater and I currently wear Edea boots or if I were a coach with a skater wearing Edea boots, I would be looking for another brand since Edeas appear to be getting a track record of breaking at the worst times.
 
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