2022 European Championships: Men's Free Skate | Page 47 | Golden Skate

2022 European Championships: Men's Free Skate

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I would argue that Andrei has decent performance skills out of the Russian skaters, it's Mark's PCS which is far too high at this point.

I hope team Mozalev works on back-up jump layouts for when pops happen, he could have saved a medal by not zayaking.

I actually think, even with errors, Mozalev's PCS should have been on par if not higher than Kondratiuk's. His overall quality of skating and choreo (even if it gets a bit snoozy towards the end) is just way better than Mark's.
 

figureskatingandrainbows

Mother of Team Japan
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Country
Olympic
Gabriele, aka Italian Chaos No. 1! I'm glad to see he looks recovered from the injury during the GP circuit. He's just so chaotic and wild that you can't help but love watching him skate. This program did a brilliant job of convincing me to watch Peaky Blinders. Although with the Olympics so soon I don't have time to breathe, let alone start a new show.
 

sc8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Mark's FS was a hot mess in the FS and his PCS was insanely high... but he had a strong SP, and I think the win is deserved (just not nearly so wide a margin - would have given the FS to Grassl).

After being at the wayside of the other Russian men, this is a wonderful moment for him. :clap:
I was surprised to see only two judges scored Grassl first: three went with Deniss and four - went with Mark.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I was surprised to see only two judges scored Grassl first: three went with Deniss and four - went with Mark.
I mean, I'm not surprised because Vasiljevs is Latvian which isn't even a second-tier skating federation like Italy is, but I am surprised as a general statement too.

At least Deniss' projection was great, even if his positions were quite awkward at times and the turns were rather sloppy.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
get that you have a lot of anger, likely due to MOZalev and Semenenko failing to deliver, losing to skaters from 2nd-tier federations after a 9+ point lead, even with ginormous increases to their PCS personal bests in both segments.... but not sure how taking it out on me or randomly dissing top Canadian figure skaters from the past helps.
I know Mozalev missed that 4S and didn’t act correctly in the aftermath, but at least this 4th place finish allows him maybe get GP stages next year and he is working very hard on the PCSs components. Personally, I think Mozalev had delivered what he needed, if not what he wanted. Which is basically what he had said himself after the competition.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I was being a bit exaggerating here. I'm saying comparatively speaking if Kondratiuk was a 90, then Vasiljev should have been a 95 and with backing of the Russian fed he would have come close to that. Really, the PCS was generous on all fronts, and I'd have had the PCS something more like:

Kondratiuk: 81
Vasiljevs: 87
Mozalev: 82
Aymoz: 84 (86 without the stumble)
Grassl: 79
Semenenko: 78
Totally irrelevant. The PCS is used (imo) to separate the skaters in THIS competition. So the scores themselves don't mean much.

I'm a statistics nerd. I've been following figure skating for maaaany years and of course have analyzed the scoring. PCS was always peculiar to me. It seemed to have no patterns at all. Then I have over the years talked to many ex-skaters, coaches, and people who KNOW things on different forums, and they all say the same thing. PCS is used exactly the same way as the 6.0 system. Meaning that the judges use it to to rate the skaters overall "impression" they gave. Which means it is just an extension of the technical mark, not a different one. The overall impression rules.

That means that just like in the 6.0 era, skating early is bad, because judges always keep PCS for eventual greater things to come. (Like Gubanova was robbed in the Women's event - she skated early!).

It also means that you can never compare competitions or think that e.g. 9.0 in Interpretation will be a relevant benchmark for future competions.

It's not how it is supposed to work, I know. But it makes perfect sense when you think about it, or analyze it.
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Hot question - Are you disagreeing because you genuinely like these skaters, or just because they just happen to come from the same political entity as yourself?
The point was not about skaters but about Russian FED's politicking. "Everybody knows" is not a valid argument same as "I heard that".
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I know Mozalev missed that 4S and didn’t act correctly in the aftermath, but at least this 4th place finish allows him maybe get GP stages next year and he is working very hard on the PCSs components. Personally, I think Mozalev had delivered what he needed, if not what he wanted. Which is basically what he had said himself after the competition.

While Kondratiuk stayed on his feet, Mozalev showed the most potential in this competition. I really hope he can build from his SP because his quads are lovely when he hits them and he has good skating skills and highlights. I'd like for him to push his choreo a little more and show more personality next year and I hope he's not too disappointed at being unable to medal here.

Crazy PCS aside, it was a tall order to ask Mozalev to clear a score that was even higher than what Kolyada got at Worlds last year, without the clout of being National champion.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
While Kondratiuk stayed on his feet, Mozalev showed the most potential in this competition. I really hope he can build from his SP because his quads are lovely when he hits them and he has good skating skills and highlights. I'd like for him to push his choreo a little more and show more personality next year and I hope he's not too disappointed at being unable to medal here.

Crazy PCS aside, it was a tall order to ask Mozalev to clear a score that was even higher than what Kolyada got at Worlds last year, without the clout of being National champion.
Unfortunately, he was, but I think that he seemed to be very willing to work on those aspects and once the insanity of this season dies down, hopefully they will keep working on it. I hope he keeps his short program. I love it!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Totally irrelevant. The PCS is used (imo) to separate the skaters in THIS competition. So the scores themselves don't mean much.

I'm a statistics nerd. I've been following figure skating for maaaany years and of course have analyzed the scoring. PCS was always peculiar to me. It seemed to have no patterns at all. Then I have over the years talked to many ex-skaters, coaches, and people who KNOW things on different forums, and they all say the same thing. PCS is used exactly the same way as the 6.0 system. Meaning that the judges use it to to rate the skaters overall "impression" they gave. Which means it is just an extension of the technical mark, not a different one. The overall impression rules.

That means that just like in the 6.0 era, skating early is bad, because judges always keep PCS for eventual greater things to come. (Like Gubanova was robbed in the Women's event - she skated early!).

It also means that you can never compare competitions or think that e.g. 9.0 in Interpretation will be a relevant benchmark for future competions.

It's not how it is supposed to work, I know. But it makes perfect sense when you think about it, or analyze it.

The issue is that now these scores are going to be used as a barometer for these skaters in future competitions. So a pumping up of their PCS rather unfairly increases their scoring threshold. Basically - "Oh, Kondratiuk scored 90 at Euros? So if he falls 3 times at the Olympics, it's fine to give him 85 PCS because it's 5 less than his personal best"... when Kondratiuk should have received nowhere close to 90 in the first place for that particular performance.

90 PCS really should only be reserved for the highest level of skating and performance. I like Mark in general and am happy for his Euro win, but that score would be outrageous. And I've expressed the same of several people from Chan to Hanyu to Chen to Kolyada who have gotten outrageous carrots from the judges. I know scoring varies from competition to competition, but there needs to be some general level of consistency.

It makes absolutely no sense how a program can score in the 8s for choreo and then the exact same program gets 9.5s.

And some things like a skater's skating skills, and the transitions and composition of a program really don't change drastically over the course of a season.

At Nebelhorn earlier this season, Mark's free program he was getting 7.68 for SS, 7.79 for TR and 7.71 for CO. At EC2022, he got 9.04 SS, 8.68 TR and 9.07 CO. If you look at the CO of the Nebelhorn program and compare it to the composition of the Euros program it's the same. And you can't tell me that in the course of a season Mark's skating skills improved enough to go from 7.68 to 9.04.

The power of a national title eh.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Unfortunately, he was, but I think that he seemed to be very willing to work on those aspects and once the insanity of this season dies down, hopefully they will keep working on it. I hope he keeps his short program. I love it!
It's actually my fave SP of the Russian men. In an ideal world, he would be skating the team SP at the Olympics.

He should not forget that he won the short program here. Big achievement for someone without much clout.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
It's actually my fave SP of the Russian men. In an ideal world, he would be skating the team SP at the Olympics.

He should not forget that he won the short program here. Big achievement for someone without much clout.
Neither is 4th place finish in the second international senior competition… and he will be in the gala, etc. but still, damn that 4S.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Grassl was wonderful and Deniss is the artist. The Russian men were remarkably comptitve even without Kolyada. I think what is interesting is how the Georgians do. They might beat Canada come team skating at Olympics. Remember there is only one competitior from the top nations if they are in the team event so you won't see multiple Japanese, Russians or Americans. I think the pcs were too high for Mark but I am fine considering the pcs of everyone else in the world.
 

streams4dreams

On the Ice
Joined
May 9, 2021
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