2022 Europeans - Men: Thoughts? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2022 Europeans - Men: Thoughts?

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Yes, of course it would have been. The best skaters should win, but if they're from one country only, it raises questions. Sweeps just are not good for the sport in the long term. I should know. My country has experienced them in another sport (Speed Skating where the Dutch dominate) where it was actually the Russian Federation who questioned it: can this even be an Olympic sport when one country grabs all the medals in quite a few of the disciplines? They were definitely the best at those events (it's not judged, so no discussions there). That wasn't the issue.

I realise this is European's, not the Olympic's. But the same kind of questions could be raised. The issue of corrupt judging will come up as well. Even when that's not the case at all but the skaters in question are just the best. In that sense it's good to see medallists from other countries.
I don’t disagree with any of this, and for me Grassl is the first, but i I was here for ups and downs in his career, as well as Vasilijevs, and I would have never celebrated them making mistakes. I can’t believe that anyone who has heart could be happy that Mozalev with his one GP of previous senior experience, RusNats humiliation and three days notice zayaked himself off the podium. He worked so hard to be there, and it’s not his fault that Russian Federation values nothing but medals. Not his efforts to gain first 4F, then 4S, not his growth in artistic side and delivery, not the fact that he managed to be in 4th. Any other skater in his circumstances would have been commended, not get a happy dance that they failed.

People—and I among them—happy that Aymoz is coming back or that Brezina put together stronger skates. Skaters all have good and bad days, and by any measure Mozalev had a solid European debut… just not for the Russians. Even if he wasn’t propped in PCSs, and placed lower, it still should have been considered good and solid.

Mozalev happened to be my sentimental favourite, and I watched him since 2019, and I hoped for a happy ending for his not at all simple path here.

Russian men had not been sweeping anything for a long time, and are not poised to do so next quad. The Japanese are, pending situation in the States. And when Uno finished 4th I was still heartbroken for him.
 
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4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
I don’t disagree with any of this, and for me Grassl is the first, but i I was here for ups and downs in his career, as well as Vasilijevs, and I would have never celebrated them making mistakes. I can’t believe that anyone who has heart could be happy that Mozalev with his one GP of previous senior experience, RusNats humiliation and three days notice zayaked himself off the podium. He worked so hard to be there, and it’s not his fault that Russian Federation values nothing but medals. Not his efforts to gain first 4F, then 4S, not his growth in artistic side and delivery, not the fact that he managed to be in 4th. Any other skater in his circumstances would have been commended. People—and I among them—happy that Aymoz is coming back or that Brezina put together stronger skates. Skaters all have good and bad days, and by any measure Mozalev had a solid European debut… just not for the Russians. Even if he wasn’t propped in PCSs, and placed lower, it still should have been considered good and solid.
nobody should ever be happy about someone succeeding a jump that doesn't count. Of course, that rule needs to be there, but it is a heartbreak. It's just as bad as wishing someone to fall. I was pretty sad when I saw that. On another topic : Grassl... can someone explain to me how he can have a quad lutz with proper edge and the do two triple lutzes with ! ... interesting... Also, what a strange layout... the 3 hardest quads, including the 4loop in a very difficult Eu Sal combo... and then... repeating 3lz! + 3toe... Very strange layout, avoiding double jumps is great though.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
nobody should ever be happy about someone succeeding a jump that doesn't count. Of course, that rule needs to be there, but it is a heartbreak. It's just as bad as wishing someone to fall. I was pretty sad when I saw that. On another topic : Grassl... can someone explain to me how he can have a quad lutz with proper edge and the do two triple lutzes with ! ... interesting... Also, what a strange layout... the 3 hardest quads, including the 4loop in a very difficult Eu Sal combo... and then... repeating 3lz! + 3toe... Very strange layout, avoiding double jumps is great though.
That’s why imo he should have been first. It was insane and it worked. They should have given him gold for that 😻
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
nobody should ever be happy about someone succeeding a jump that doesn't count. Of course, that rule needs to be there, but it is a heartbreak. It's just as bad as wishing someone to fall. I was pretty sad when I saw that. On another topic : Grassl... can someone explain to me how he can have a quad lutz with proper edge and the do two triple lutzes with ! ... interesting... Also, what a strange layout... the 3 hardest quads, including the 4loop in a very difficult Eu Sal combo... and then... repeating 3lz! + 3toe... Very strange layout, avoiding double jumps is great though.
His 4Lz is in an area where the technical panel can't see the edge clearly.
He dislikes 3A more than quads.

His technique is extremely dodgy (no insult to him quads are hard). Whilst he is a stable jumper, it's definitely not good technique (not even talking about stuff like prerotation as people ignore it now - but hammer toe, edges, hook on the loop, wrapped legs, forced rotation, heavy use of the upper body on takeoff).
He's (Well his coach, their methodology gets jumps quickly not necessarily good quality or stable) kinda forced these quads to work to his technique and the "harder" quads become easier (both takeoff technique and the way he initiates rotation and stays in rotation).

Lorenzo Magri is... eh... I don't really like his coaching methodology. He kinda teaches them (right or wrong), and if they don't do it right just accepts it. Same thing goes for basic skating skills and crossovers etc. Some of his skaters (Frangipani) clearly has reasonable skating skills and crossovers (albeit lacking refinement) whereas this is an area that Daniel is lacking.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Dream podium😍

So, so, so happy for Deniss, he finally got to have his moment! And he broke the streak of 4th places, which felt like an eternity. My reaction after his FS was pretty similar to Lambiel's :laugh:

Delighted for Mark also. The judging was insane at this competition and he‘s not a 90 PCS skater yet but wow, how far he‘s come! I think he considered quitting a few years ago due to a serious injury and look at him now. I also love his performance of that extremely campy Jesus program lol.

Watching live in 2020, I felt that Grassl absolutely deserved the Bronze and was very angry when he didn‘t get it. So him winning silver here feels right. His jump technique is a mess, frankly, and he‘s not the most refined skater but I‘ve still grown to love his performances.

I can‘t pretend to be a fan of Mozalev‘s but I think he absolutely deserves to be on the Olympic team. He beat Semenenko at Nationals AND here, too, what else could he possibly do? If they put Semenenko on the team despite that, just because his coach is Mishin, it would be extremely unfair. Just my two cents.

Last but not least I‘m also happy for Kevin - it wasn‘t perfect but it was a step up. Overall (if you ignore the judging), this was a very fun men‘s competition - both the SP and the FS! :clap::jump:
 

Anna K.

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Lorenzo Magri is... eh... I don't really like his coaching methodology. He kinda teaches them (right or wrong), and if they don't do it right just accepts it. Same thing goes for basic skating skills and crossovers etc. Some of his skaters (Frangipani) clearly has reasonable skating skills and crossovers (albeit lacking refinement) whereas this is an area that Daniel is lacking.
This made me remember a moment during the press conference when Deniss said that the "crisp" jumping he was trying to master all the time was an art and Daniel was staring at him as if thinking "this is different in their camp than it is in our camp" ;)
 

Hyena

Tous les whiskys
Medalist
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
I would give the Olympic spot to Mozalev. He's outperformed Semenenko twice in a row now. He still may have a lower floor, but that doesn't matter quite as much at the Olympics. If he struggles there and the Fed is still nervous about him not making the free skate at a championship, send Semenenko to Worlds instead.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I want American solution—Semeneko Olympics (BoW), Mozalev World (developmental goal), announced right away, to give both guys stability, because they are even less likely to perform successfully if this skate-off continues. I mean, what do they want to do, make them jump sbs 4S untill one of them drops on ice and taps out?
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I want American solution—Semeneko Olympics (BoW), Mozalev World (developmental goal), announced right away, to give both guys stability, because they are even less likely to perform successfully if this skate-off continues. I mean, what do they want to do, make them jump sbs 4S untill one of them drops on ice and taps out?
I'd go Mozalev olympics semenenko worlds.
Why?
Because worlds you need the most consistency to get spots next year.
Mozalev has better potential at Olympics, and no harm done if he doesn't have his best skate. And he has often performed well in FS, and now proven he performed well in SP.

For team event I'd just get Kondratyuk to do both at this point. He seems like best bet for clean skates. Either that or make Kolyada run a 1 quad SP and Kondratyuk FP.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I'd go Mozalev olympics semenenko worlds.
Why?
Because worlds you need the most consistency to get spots next year.
Mozalev has better potential at Olympics, and no harm done if he doesn't have his best skate. And he has often performed well in FS, and now proven he performed well in SP.

For team event I'd just get Kondratyuk to do both at this point. He seems like best bet for clean skates. Either that or make Kolyada run a 1 quad SP and Kondratyuk FP.
Mozalev’s relationship with 4S is more recent and more tumultuous than Semenenko’s, so he is more likely to not get into the free, plus Semenenko does have better BoW in seniors.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Mozalev’s relationship with 4S is more recent and more tumultuous than Semenenko’s, so he is more likely to not get into the free, plus Semenenko does have better BoW in seniors.
I'm pretty sure either falling on just 4S would get into the free.

Mozalev has higher ceiling due to superior skating skills (kneebend, guide and edges), transitions, and higher quality on the jumps (not breaking in his hips in his jumps like semenenko does - or at least started doing more recently).
If we say Nathan Hanyu Shoma Yuma Kolyada on a good day are gonna be ahead of both of them, then have other top skaters making up top 10 in Olympics - Mozalev for me is more likely to be in the top 10, simply as he is a much better skater (no offence to semenenko, he's still good - just not on that level).
Considering Mozalev beat semenenko twice in a row, and has probably 3nd best skating to anybody but Kolyada and Dennis in Europe (not just Russia, but Europe), he'd be my favourite to go.
 

CrazyKittenLady

Team Moskvich for Junior Nats podium!
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Country
Austria
Although, they can also send Mozalenko to Moskvina, then they can jump sbs 4S for the glory of Russian pair skating, stage next.

They better get on to it. Samarkhov are already doing SBS 3A. They are aiming for Olympics 2070. :love2:

uidKiJj.gif
 

RatedPG

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Country
Canada
My thoughts are that the Mishin camp really took a hit here.

Zhenya qualified to the Europeans despite placing fourth at Nationals and was pretty much secured an Olympic spot. With Andrei beating him here, the spot might be lost. If he loses this spot, he is going to have nightmares and this happened due to Kolyada injury. Of course, he only has himself to blame. But, his Olympic experience could be gone and for it to be lost due to an injury, would be heart breaking for Zhenya.

Also, Kolyada could also be affected by Mark’s victory here. Not only is Mark the Russian National Champion. But, he is now the European Champion with a higher SB. Kolyada’s meltdown at the last Olympics is something Russia must remember and with his injury, his spot at the Team event may also be gone. That is like losing a potential Olympic gold medal.

Personally, I would go with Andrei to the Olympics and Mark for the Team Event. I’m in the camp that spots are earned.
 

melsh

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
I also loved Grassl's chaos! he reminded me of Yuzuru at the 2012 Worlds, the baby face, the slender fragile-looking body which suddenly explodes in dangerous jumps, young and romantic, elegant and messy, ambitious and hungry for all the gold in the world.
I wish he won!
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Personally, I would go with Andrei to the Olympics and Mark for the Team Event. I’m in the camp that spots are earned.
I think by all parameters Mozalev did outskate Semenenko, because he did objectively stay on his feet more, but I feel like Olympics is a year too early for him. He is very obviously not like Kondratyuk to bloom overnight, and according to stats it’s those who are successful early on that are more successful and for longer, but maybe he could still come into his own a bit slower? I feel like he is skating better and better, but the second quad is such a struggle 😿
 

Ali81

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
Was astonished at how good Grassl was . A powerful performance , but the pcs seemed quite low . Kondratiuk is a solid skater and performer but he is simply not a 90+ pcs skater . It seems ridiculous that he gets higher pcs than Kevin A. and Vassiljevs -just inexplicable. Mozalev on the other hand is a skater who can score 90+ pcs eventually when he gets clean programs together regularly. I think he was feeling the pressure of being the leader , but that long program of his is a powerful piece when skated clean
 
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