2022 Four Continents: Rhythm Dance

[princecharming]

Being able to skate a fall doesn't necessarily means you can get a higher score though. K/K have never scored above 70 in RD internationally while M/T have never scored below 70 in RD internationally. It's easy to skate safe if you are slow with flat edges keeping distance with your partner. K/K won't receive levels at Olympics as they did at Nationals. The tech panel at Nationals was very lenient to K/K, even giving level 4 to Misato's twizzles with multiple mistakes in FD. Good luck to them in Beijing.

I also feel like it's not a wise decision to send K/K to Beijing. Seems like sentiments played a big part in the decision for the Japanese skating federation.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I also feel like it's not a wise decision to send K/K to Beijing. Seems like sentiments played a big part in the decision for the Japanese skating federation.

But they've worked so hard and they beat M/T at Nationals fair and square.

I was actually more surprised that M/T weren't picked because they are both Japanese whereas Tim is not (even though he's given up his US citizenship because Japan does not allow dual citizenship).

Team KoKo have worked for years and I enjoy them a lot! I'm not sure why they get such a bad rap.

Sentimental reasons would be picking new team M/T because it's Daisuke Takahashi IMO.

 

[princecharming]

But they've worked so hard and they beat M/T at Nationals fair and square.

I was actually more surprised that M/T weren't picked because they are both Japanese whereas Tim is not (even though he's given up his US citizenship because Japan does not allow dual citizenship).

Team KoKo have worked for years and I enjoy them a lot! I'm not sure why they get such a bad rap.

Sentimental reasons would be picking new team M/T because it's Daisuke Takahashi IMO.

Sorry no. The season has proven that M/T are the better dance team.

It's Tim's decision to give up his citizenship, people need to be aware that it's a gamble whether he goes to the Olympics or not.

It comes across as nepotism, really.

 

[dorispulaski]

Say what? Who is KoKo's "uncle" in this story, that you term it nepotism?

IMO It is Japan's convictions to follow its own selection rules, not nepotism, that caused KoKo's selection. If M&T had won Nationals, they would have gone to Olympics.

 

[mikeko666]

Sorry no. The season has proven that M/T are the better dance team.

It's Tim's decision to give up his citizenship, people need to be aware that it's a gamble whether he goes to the Olympics or not.

It comes across as nepotism, really.

I agree that the international results have proven M/T are better team than K/K. K/K only beat M/K at Nationals which could have had a different result if it had been scored by an ISU judge panel. I was shocked to know the tech panel gave level 4 to Misato's twizzles with multiple mistakes (2nd and 3rd) in FD. GOE and PCS may have some room for subjectivity (although I don't think K/K would receive PCS comparable to M/T at an international competition like they did in FD at Nationals), but the technical judging shouldn't.

Some say that JSF's ice dance working group must send K/K to Beijing because they have invested for years both financially and emotionally. They need to justify the spending. The group leader was among the judges. Sending M/T wouldn't make their achievement because they are pretty much independent.

 

[synesthesia]

Seems like sentiments played a big part in the decision for the Japanese skating federation.

IMO It is Japan's convictions to follow its own selection rules, not nepotism, that caused KoKo's selection. If M&T had won Nationals, they would have gone to Olympics.

Some say that JSF's ice dance working group must send K/K to Beijing because they have invested for years both financially and emotionally. They need to justify the spending. The group leader was among the judges. Sending M/T wouldn't make their achievement because they are pretty much independent.

Well, all of these statements contain a grain of truth at the same time imo – it's not black or white. On the one hand KoKo had fed backing. The head of the ice dance working group reportedly helped speed up Tim's naturalisation process (legally), and allegedly put the Komatsubaras in touch with the actress Mari Natsuki to record the Japanese narration/voice-over for their FD. (Both of which is fine in and of itself, of course!) What’s striking is, that their scores did not match those of the other judges in the FD, where they were the only judge to put KoKo above Kana and Dai (by 2.42 points). (To be honest, I don't understand why they were allowed to be on the panel when there was a potential conflict of interest). All the same, it was only this one judge, who didn't have enough influence to skew the results in such a way that a win for Kana and Dai would have been impossible.

Instead Kana and Dai gave away the title by their own doing. Had they been squeaky clean except for the double fall, which basically nullified one of their highest scoring elements, they would have still taken the win and a spot on the Olympic team. Unfortunately, that was not the case, while KoKo did better overall. Both teams received a few lenient level calls that evened out.

No matter how I look at it, KoKo performed better at Nationals and a barely eked out win for Kana and Dai, considering the way they skated, wouldn't have sat right with me. To make matters worse, they probably would have taken a fair amount of criticism as a result, which I wouldn't have wanted for them. I also don't think they would have been happy to win in this way and they were indeed very gracious in defeat, blaming nobody but themselves.

Now, the selection process was tricky. I agree with Marina Zueva's criticism that world standing as a criterion put Kana and Dai at a disadvantage even before the competition started, because there was no opportunity to collect any ranking points last season. But they knew this going into Nationals and Kana and Dai never tired of stressing that they had to win to have a shot at the Olympic spot. In the end both teams met 2 selection criteria each, which made this a tough decision for the federation.

From a purely strategic point of view it might have been more advantageous to give the spot to Kana and Dai due to their higher international scoring potential in both programs even with mistakes, which they confirmed at 4CC (they also overtook KoKo in the world standings by 13 places and thus now fulfil 3 of the 4 selection criteria – but alas too late). That said, I think it was fair to give Misato and Tim the berth, which they had earned for Japan at Worlds 2021, due to outperforming Kana and Dai at Nationals and I sincerely wish them well and to yield good results in Beijing.

On the bright side for Kana and Dai, they made history at 4CC by becoming Japan's most successful id team to date (and have the potential to achieve a historic placement for a Japanese id team at Worlds too). In addition Dai just became the first skater to ever medal in two different disciplines at senior level ISU Championships. So in the end, even without competing at the Olympics, they earned some seriously awesome accolades!

(Tbh, I hope not making it to Beijing fuels them to continue for another quad and try again for Milano. )

 

[princecharming]

Try for Milan? Dai will be so old. Do they actually want it so badly? I'd suggest another season or 2 and call it a day.

 

[ladyjane]

No, Dai will not be so old! In Ice Dance there are many skaters who are 'old' compared to single skaters. Being in your late 30's or even your early 40's at a high level is perfectly possible. It's not as if Dai will suddenly be an old man. He likes to skate, he manages to perform better and better in this discipline. I hope they will try for Milan!

And let's not forget the two for me highlight women in pairs skating, Deanna and Zoe, who are also still competing (I don't know whether Zoe will stay on, but she's skated at this level until in her early 40s). I'm so thankful we don't just see teenagers in Ice Dance and Pairs (and in the men either for that matter).

 

[princecharming]

No, Dai will not be so old! In Ice Dance there are many skaters who are 'old' compared to single skaters. Being in your late 30's or even your early 40's at a high level is perfectly possible. It's not as if Dai will suddenly be an old man. He likes to skate, he manages to perform better and better in this discipline. I hope they will try for Milan!

And let's not forget the two for me highlight women in pairs skating, Deanna and Zoe, who are also still competing (I don't know whether Zoe will stay on, but she's skated at this level until in her early 40s). I'm so thankful we don't just see teenagers in Ice Dance and Pairs (and in the men either for that matter).

Those are rare cases.

Ultimately, it's up to Dai and Kana and deciding what's best for them.

 

[SnowWhite]

If they choose to continue til the next Olympics that's awesome. But Daisuke would be 39 (~a month from 40) and that would be rare even for dance. The oldest competitor in dance this Olympics is Marco Fabbri (about to turn 34). Next are Evan Bates and Nik Sorensen, who are 32 (turning 33 this month). Basically early 30s is common, late 30s can be done but it's rare. So we'll see what happens.