2022 World Championships: Pairs Free Skate | Page 30 | Golden Skate

2022 World Championships: Pairs Free Skate

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Just got back from work and had a chance to watch the last group plus James/Radford.

There is no way that Riku/Ryuchi should not have dropped like a stone after what was a pretty disastrous performance. James/Radford are the rightful winners of that silver medal. I feel bad for the Japanese pair, but that was an error-strewn performance, while James/Radford were pretty much totally clean. Wuz robbed. Bigtime. I hope James/Radford continue to compete for another year at least. I feel like they are only just beginning to gel. This was by far their best performance this season. Huge congratulations for winning a medal.

Now for the really serious. C-G/L, what can one say? That was awful. I hope she is OK.

So much respect for K/F coming out after that and delivering in the clutch. Clearly the winners. They actually managed to make me forget what came before and get caught up in their performance. Alexa does everything with maximum amplitude — it's amazing to see. I thought she was the one who exuded the joy of skating here.
 

Erin9

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
I was scrolling on FB and Randy Gardner posted a very kind post congratulating them. I was like WHAT?!?! So I came here to look for the results. I'm so happy for Kneirim and her decision to continue after her husband's injuries. And now she is a world champion! So happy for her. And even better, I am ecstatic for Vanessa and Eric and their winning bronze after only a year together. Amazing skaters and very deserving of all the success they have achieved. Yay for Vanessa/Eric and your success is a testament to your characters. Good job.
That is so cool that Randy congratulated them!
 

BearryBear

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Country
Canada
Just got back from work and had a chance to watch the last group plus James/Radford.

There is no way that Riku/Ryuchi should not have dropped like a stone after what was a pretty disastrous performance. James/Radford are the rightful winners of that silver medal. I feel bad for the Japanese pair, but that was an error-strewn performance, while James/Radford were pretty much totally clean. Wuz robbed. Bigtime. I hope James/Radford continue to compete for another year at least. I feel like they are only just beginning to gel. This was by far their best performance this season. Huge congratulations for winning a medal.

I don't know how people aren't talking about this more. I was honestly shocked they scored so well with all those mistakes. But I guess because people don't really like JR they think it's ok to overscore a team to beat them. Oh well.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I don't know how people aren't talking about this more. I was honestly shocked they scored so well with all those mistakes. But I guess because people don't really like JR they think it's ok to overscore a team to beat them. Oh well.
See my earlier post. I don't particularly enjoy J/R, but they absolutely deserved the silver medal here.
 

TwinnerA

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Country
United-States
I don't understand all the laughing and waving at the camera in the audience. Don't they understand how serious this is?
It’s nervous laughter, the body’s defense mechanism to regulate human emotion. It wasn't my reaction, but then I wasn't there to see it in person with a camera there to record my reaction. I was actually at work watching on my phone and almost cried!
 

boo69

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Of all the disciplines, pairs was the easiest for the Americans to win b/c the pairs championships is pretty much similar to Four Continents without the Russians. I guess the only way Americans will win pairs is if the Russians never come back. The Americans are probably hoping the Russians will never come back because that way it will be an easy free ride to the top due to no competition from the remaining countries. That makes the gold medal less worthy because the best competitors are absent. Now if the Russians and Chinese were there and the Americans win the gold, then that's something to be proud of. I'm missing the Russians and Chinese pairs. The Americans are lacking finesse, personality, and power which makes them not interesting or exciting to watch. This pairs competition was not as exciting as the Beijing Olympics, probably the most dull and boring pairs competition ever. It's a shame that Alexa and Brendan's performance is a gold medal one. Sigh....
 

4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
okay.. well i just watched JR and RR... and sorry but this was a REAL wuzrobbed moment. J/R deserved the silver... SO MANY big mistakes.
Their PCS should have been hammered.

And, I admit I have been a huge fan of RR all season. I am just tired that we cannot ever get a competition with scores that make complete sense... When it's a coin toss, I am very fine dealing with whatever is served to me.. but this was not even close.

I am okay with them having a medal for an amazing season. But not this way.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
J/R winning a World medal is one of the most laughable moments ever. :eek:
How so? Exactly what makes you laugh about it? Or maybe why should anyone care if you find their success "most laughable". Toxic people easily weed themselves out. People who aren't toxic read through the comments and sees posts like that and just say "Consider the source." Or do you have some funny sense of humor that isn/t yet appreciated?
Finding Vanessa and Eric's success "most laughable" is just a poor reflection on the poster. IMO. And it's not funny. By far.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Should J/R have won the silver, maybe?
But, I don't think it is quite as clear cut as some people make it out to be. In the end the difference in TES in the FS was only 4 points/ and M/K had a 3 point TES lead from the SP.
Pairs elements are worth a lot more than jump elements in pairs skating. M/K have better lifts, better throws ( when landed), and a better twist than J/R. They messed up their two SBS jumps but J/Rs SBS definitely didn't deserve particularly high GOE either. So, the main difference was the messed up throw.

M/K have among the best SS in pairs skating only rivaled by the top Chinese teams and T/M. Anyone whose been watching skating for a significant period of time knows how far great SS will take you. They make every element look better. They make the judges give you high PCS even when you make mistakes. ( Hello, Patrick Chan and by the way I never thought he was as overscored as some others; beautiful SS make everything better). So, I think it could have gone either way. But, M/K's basics and connection vs J/R who still lack that connection and whose SS are just average probably made the difference.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Should J/R have won the silver, maybe?
But, I don't think it is quite as clear cut as some people make it out to be. In the end the difference in TES in the FS was only 4 points/ and M/K had a 3 point TES lead from the SP.
Pairs elements are worth a lot more than jump elements in pairs skating. M/K have better lifts, better throws ( when landed), and a better twist than J/R. They messed up their two SBS jumps but J/Rs SBS definitely didn't deserve particularly high GOE either. So, the main difference was the messed up throw.

M/K have among the best SS in pairs skating only rivaled by the top Chinese teams and T/M. Anyone whose been watching skating for a significant period of time knows how far great SS will take you. They make every element look better. They make the judges give you high PCS even when you make mistakes. ( Hello, Patrick Chan and by the way I never thought he was as overscored as some others; beautiful SS make everything better). So, I think it could have gone either way. But, M/K's basics and connection vs J/R who still lack that connection and whose SS are just average probably made the difference.
Agreed. On the eye test I may agree that M/K made too many mistakes but I don't see a problem with their protocol. They kept performing, their skating skills were great, and they deservedly got the best lift scores.

J/R made no major mistakes but they also do not get great GOEs. Wuzrobbed should be clear and I'm not seeing it in the protocols.
 

sworddance21

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Cant read the whole thread as I am in shock. Thoughts for her husband and the whole extended family and team. I saw Jessica duBee (sp) get hit in the face by her partner's blade in a side by side spin...a group of 8th graders just had left behind me...Bryce Davidson...that was the partner's name...I am trying to unsee the face of Ashley's mom and Ashley's face....prayers

Exactly....who was that comedian that bumped his head, then layed down and died in the night a month or two ago?
Bob Saget
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Of all the disciplines, pairs was the easiest for the Americans to win b/c the pairs championships is pretty much similar to Four Continents without the Russians. I guess the only way Americans will win pairs is if the Russians never come back. The Americans are probably hoping the Russians will never come back because that way it will be an easy free ride to the top due to no competition from the remaining countries. That makes the gold medal less worthy because the best competitors are absent. Now if the Russians and Chinese were there and the Americans win the gold, then that's something to be proud of. I'm missing the Russians and Chinese pairs. The Americans are lacking finesse, personality, and power which makes them not interesting or exciting to watch. This pairs competition was not as exciting as the Beijing Olympics, probably the most dull and boring pairs competition ever. It's a shame that Alexa and Brendan's performance is a gold medal one. Sigh....

For me, Alexa and Brandon are the personification of personality and power. Maybe not as much finesse (that would be Ashley and Timothy😭) but worthy gold medalists nonetheless. I quite enjoyed their skates.

They are not responsible for the competition. You skate against who is at the rink, and you place where you place. That is the nature of sport, otherwise we would just list the PBs and call it a night.

I doubt very much they have given any thought as to whether the Russians, or the Chinese, will be at upcoming comps. :shrug:
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Should J/R have won the silver, maybe?
But, I don't think it is quite as clear cut as some people make it out to be. In the end the difference in TES in the FS was only 4 points/ and M/K had a 3 point TES lead from the SP.
Pairs elements are worth a lot more than jump elements in pairs skating. M/K have better lifts, better throws ( when landed), and a better twist than J/R. They messed up their two SBS jumps but J/Rs SBS definitely didn't deserve particularly high GOE either. So, the main difference was the messed up throw.

M/K have among the best SS in pairs skating only rivaled by the top Chinese teams and T/M. Anyone whose been watching skating for a significant period of time knows how far great SS will take you. They make every element look better. They make the judges give you high PCS even when you make mistakes. ( Hello, Patrick Chan and by the way I never thought he was as overscored as some others; beautiful SS make everything better). So, I think it could have gone either way. But, M/K's basics and connection vs J/R who still lack that connection and whose SS are just average probably made the difference.
Oh come on now. Maybe? J/R clearly should have won the silver here. I have seldom seen such a clear-cut case. I find this defense of the indefensible frankly kind of bizarre.

The fact of the matter is that on this day, R/R did not in any way have better elements than J/R. J/R successfully completed 3Sals. R/R did not successfully complete a single triple jump in this skate. While J/R's side by side triple toe combo was certainly nothing to write home about (very out of synch) it was a 3 jump combo, which R/R also didn't do, and again, a triple, see above on R/R.

On this day R/R's throws were utterly and completely inferior to both of J/R's. The one was a big fall. The other, which unjustly got huge positive GOE when it at most should have gotten 0 GOE was pitched forward so far that I had to watch the replay to see if she touched down on it. So the judges just completely ignored how flawed it was. My jaw dropped. So in fact R/R failed to really complete a single jump element cleanly in this program (or failed on 3 out of 4).

Sure, they have great skating skills, but J/R, both former medallists with other partners, are hardly chopped liver in the skating skills department either, so it's not like we're comparing Patrick Chan and Boyang Jin from back in the day, seriously. J/R have better lines (one of the best things about this partnership, in my opinion). R/R usually have a lot of joy in their performances, which was lacking in this instance because of all of the mistakes. And they are still rough around the edges.

This was highway robbery, nothing less.

I'm surprised to find myself so passionate about this. Prior to this event I was pretty neutral about both pairs. I like them both well enough, can see the strengths and weaknesses of both and would have assuredly picked R/R as likely to finish higher, given their relative seasons. Which is what happened, but not deservedly.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Oh come on now. Maybe? J/R clearly should have won the silver here. I have seldom seen such a clear-cut case. I find this defense of the indefensible frankly kind of bizarre.

The fact of the matter is that on this day, R/R did not in any way have better elements than J/R. J/R successfully completed 3Sals. R/R did not successfully complete a single triple jump in this skate. While J/R's side by side triple toe combo was certainly nothing to write home about (very out of synch) it was a 3 jump combo, which R/R also didn't do, and again, a triple, see above on R/R.

On this day R/R's throws were utterly and completely inferior to both of J/R's. The one was a big fall. The other, which unjustly got huge positive GOE when it at most should have gotten 0 GOE was pitched forward so far that I had to watch the replay to see if she touched down on it. So the judges just completely ignored how flawed it was. My jaw dropped. So in fact R/R failed to really complete a single jump element cleanly in this program (or failed on 3 out of 4).

Sure, they have great skating skills, but J/R, both former medallists with other partners, are hardly chopped liver in the skating skills department either, so it's not like we're comparing Patrick Chan and Boyang Jin from back in the day, seriously. J/R have better lines (one of the best things about this partnership, in my opinion). R/R usually have a lot of joy in their performances, which was lacking in this instance because of all of the mistakes. And they are still rough around the edges.

This was highway robbery, nothing less.

I'm surprised to find myself so passionate about this. Prior to this event I was pretty neutral about both pairs. I like them both well enough, can see the strengths and weaknesses of both and would have assuredly picked R/R as likely to finish higher, given their relative seasons. Which is what happened, but not deservedly.
I would just say look at the protocols and tell me which particular elements were judged incorrectly. I don't see a problem. If you do, tell me which ones and explain why because what I see in those protocols matches what happened on the ice. This is pairs skating not singles. SBS jumps are rather small percentage of the score which is why many pairs teams still get medals with messed up SBS, but very very few do with messed up lifts.

By the way, I didn't say J/R had bad skating skills. I said average. They are average for a pair in high level international competition.
 

4everchan

Observer
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Should J/R have won the silver, maybe?
But, I don't think it is quite as clear cut as some people make it out to be. In the end the difference in TES in the FS was only 4 points/ and M/K had a 3 point TES lead from the SP.
Pairs elements are worth a lot more than jump elements in pairs skating. M/K have better lifts, better throws ( when landed), and a better twist than J/R. They messed up their two SBS jumps but J/Rs SBS definitely didn't deserve particularly high GOE either. So, the main difference was the messed up throw.
twists, both got level 3 in both programs, slight edge (not even .5 points) in GOE for MK.

I think the Japanese are better skaters. Definitely. However, the many mistakes marred their performance today. I think the TES wasn't scored badly. My issue really is that the PCS should also have been more penalized. Yes, skating skills fine. But just TOO many mistakes. It really ruined the performance. While in the case of JR, after the bobble on the toes, the performance got better and better. They skated more freely.

I am not of the kind of person who forgets the importance of the SP. I have used that argument many times ;) I believe MK were also slightly held up in the short.

In the end, when looking at everything that was done, and both performances by both teams : i have just watched all four programmes back to back... to me it is not even close, and as I have mentioned, I do prefer MK to JR on any other day... not just this time.

But hey... whatever we may think doesn't matter... the issue I have with this one, as I believe personally it was an obvious call to make, is that it doesn't help the sport. As I said, I am fine when it could have gone either way... but this time, I feel the judges were influenced by the image of each team's respective season... or what some call reputation judging. I believe that every competition should present the same opportunities to all the athletes. I was hoping for a more open and straightforward judging this time around, considering what we don't need to mention in this thread.

Just my two cents... and as maybe you know, the cent has been phased out a long time ago in Canada... so my two cents have either no valuer or get rounded up to a nickel (5 cents)...
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
M/K scored three points lower in PCS than they did at the Olympics where they only had one error. Given how PCS is scored I don't see that as a bad call. Even if you take off a couple more points for PCS it would still be close. With the scoring system that we have this seems fair to me and does not rise to the level of wuzrobbed.

ETA: I feel like we tend to score on the number of elements a pair completes well. Folks are basically arguing that J/R got 10.5 out of 11 elements done and M/K did 8 out of 11 so it should be clear. But that's not what the judges are doing.
 
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readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
twists, both got level 3 in both programs, slight edge (not even .5 points) in GOE for MK.

I think the Japanese are better skaters. Definitely. However, the many mistakes marred their performance today. I think the TES wasn't scored badly. My issue really is that the PCS should also have been more penalized. Yes, skating skills fine. But just TOO many mistakes. It really ruined the performance. While in the case of JR, after the bobble on the toes, the performance got better and better. They skated more freely.

I am not of the kind of person who forgets the importance of the SP. I have used that argument many times ;) I believe MK were also slightly held up in the short.

In the end, when looking at everything that was done, and both performances by both teams : i have just watched all four programmes back to back... to me it is not even close, and as I have mentioned, I do prefer MK to JR on any other day... not just this time.

But hey... whatever we may think doesn't matter... the issue I have with this one, as I believe personally it was an obvious call to make, is that it doesn't help the sport. As I said, I am fine when it could have gone either way... but this time, I feel the judges were influenced by the image of each team's respective season... or what some call reputation judging. I believe that every competition should present the same opportunities to all the athletes. I was hoping for a more open and straightforward judging this time around, considering what we don't need to mention in this thread.

Just my two cents... and as maybe you know, the cent has been phased out a long time ago in Canada... so my two cents have either no valuer or get rounded up to a nickel (5 cents)...
I respect your opinion, as always. I just think you have to remember this is pairs skating and not singles. So, messed up SBS don't affect the score the same way they do in singles. Nor, should they.

As for mistakes having more affect on PCS, that's a fair argument. But, I honestly still enjoyed M/K error filled skate more than J/Rs FS. And, I'm not someone on the J/R hate bandwagon. I actually enjoyed their SP here more than I've ever enjoyed them as a pair up to this point. But, I felt their performance in the FS was flat. And, if I were a judge I would also have still had M/K ahead in PCS. ( As pointed out above, it was already lowered from their previous PCS which reflects the errors)
 
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