2022 World Championships: Pairs Free Skate | Page 31 | Golden Skate

2022 World Championships: Pairs Free Skate

4everchan

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I respect your opinion, as always. I just think you have to remember this is pairs skating and not singles. So, messed up SBS don't affect the score the same way they do in singles. Nor, should they.

As for mistakes having more affect on PCS, that's a fair argument. But, I honestly still enjoyed M/K error filled skate more than J/Rs FS. And, I'm not someone on the J/R hate bandwagon. I actually enjoyed their SP here more than I've ever enjoyed them as a pair up to this point. But, I felt their performance in the FS was flat. And, if I were a judge I would also have still had M/K ahead in PCS. ( As pointed out above, it was already lowered from their previous PCS which reflects the errors)
i enjoy reading your posts as always. Even when we disagree, it's always done with respect. Thanks !

I am not the kind of person who forgets a SP nor the kind of person who looks at scores from another event and extrapolates how much the same skaters should get on PCS with one more mistake etc... different panels, different competition, and as we know, PCS judging is often done in comparison to what others did before you skate. So I believe it's fairer to compare PCS to other skaters from the same competition than to bring up PCS scoring from other events to justify the current event number.

I think we have been around the circle at this point. What's next? Ice dance? :) I promise I will not bring up things like : well,so and so skated without a mistake here so they should get their Olympics PCS + 3 points :)
 

TT_Fin

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I just watched pairs because I was too tired to watch the last group yesterday local time. Good decision, it was easier to watch at morning. I hope we get news from Ashley and she is all right.

I have finished to look much the PCS etc but I have a comparison to you arguments, as a person who loves math: If I go to match test, and the maximum would be 30 points, there is 5 elements and maximum from each is 6 points, (in our engineering studies this is quite common system) I can make one major error and get 0 points from one element, but the rest is 100 % correct, so I get 24 points. Somebody else gets a couple of elements correct but makes tiny mistakes in others, but gets point from all of them, he/she is able to get the same points ore even more than me - or less, depending on how big the mistakes are. I think FS is just like this. And another teacher is harsher than another taking points of the mistakes. Judges are human and so far there is no robots calculating, people will never agree. And if there were robots, people would argue if they are programmed to score right or not.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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LOL it's more like 43 Years!
Yes. It is 43 years since 1979 Tai & Randy, and it is 72 years since 1950 Karol & Peter Kennedy.

I had to take a break to do some things. When I got back fortunately the replay was up for the free program. The short program is still not available. I truly wish they would mute whatever they need to mute and provide the sp replay. It isn't fair to paying subscribers.

I looked several times at what happened to Ashley. It didn't look like she hit her head. But I noticed that it seemed like her neck snapped back. Someone online said she may have hit her chin (which involves the head and the neck). With that kind of impact, it's rather frightening. She's also experienced a concussion before. She definitely tried to get up, but it looked like she actually couldn't in her upper body and then she flopped and rolled over limply. I'm soooo sorry for Ashley and Timothy. Such bad luck. Ashley didn't seem very together though. She was struggling with the jumps and the throw landings, so it didn't seem as if she was fully present or something. Maybe the pressure felt overwhelming. But yeah, she had a bad fall there, and was also likely rattled physically and mentally from the other mishaps that occurred. When she went up into that last jump, she looked lost in the air. It didn't look like her mind was fully in sync with her body.

Honestly, after listening to these amazing athletes at the fp press conference and small medal ceremony, it brings everything more into focus about just how difficult this sport is, and how dangerous. It is psychologically, emotionally, and physically draining. It's so cool hearing the respect and camaraderie these athletes have for each other too. I'm happy for Eric & Vanessa, and for Alexa & Brandon (and Chris Knierim too). While I respect Miura/Kihara as people and as skaters, I do not respect the way they were given gifts by the judges in both the sp and the very messy fp they skated.

When the camera showed the skaters watching M/K's marks backstage, Safina/Berulava & Hase/Seegert teams looked a bit put off by the fact M/K were still in first over all of them. Eric & Vanessa looked stoic. Then Eric started clapping as he noticed the camera was on them, and because he's a nice person. Vanessa and a few of the others slowly started to clap too because of the camera. Also, I believe that all of the skaters respect each other as competitors. They probably don't like as much seeing favoritism in the scoring. If any one of H/S, S/B or J/R had skated like M/K did in the fp, they would have been dropped like a rock.

Vanessa & Eric and Alexa & Brandon are the absolute bees knees. I'm thrilled for them. As Alexa said she and Vanessa had been discussing: "One competition does not define you." It's like I've always said about figure skating. It's more about the journey (and what you learn about yourself) than it is about the destination. Winning offers prestige and shiny medals, but that's just icing on the cake. If you don't grow through all the hard stuff it takes to make the cake, you may have the wrong perspective toward fully appreciating being on the podium.

I loved hearing all that Vanessa & Eric had to say, and Alexa & Brandon too. Good luck to all the teams in the coming weeks and months as they do shows and plan for next season or whatever is next (Eric is also doing a concert in Toronto, and taking Vanessa to visit his hometown). Eric/Vanessa may decide to call it a career, but they are taking some time out to decide. Eric was so very honest about them having forgotten in the beginning just how hard it would be in competition, and also getting their bodies back into the grind. I also think it takes time to fully be comfortable in competition with a new partner. The skating part and feeling in sync together was 'natural' for them. But it's a whole new experience in the tough arena of high level competition, complete with all the politics of judging, etc.

 
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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Yes. It is 43 years since 1979 Tai & Randy, and it is 72 years since 1950 Karol & Peter Kennedy.

And not 79 years since anything!

I had to take a break to do some things. When I got back fortunately the replay was up for the free program. The short program is still not available. I truly wish they would mute whatever they need to mute and provide that replay. It isn't fair to paying subscribers.

I looked several times at what happened to Ashley. It didn't look like she hit her head. But I noticed that it seemed like her neck snapped back. Someone online said she may have hit her chin (which involves the head and the neck). With that kind of impact, it's rather frightening, because she's experienced a concussion before. She also tried to get up, but it looked like she actually couldn't in her upper body and then she flopped and rolled over limply. I'm soooo sorry for Ashley and Timothy. Such bad luck. Ashley didn't seem very together though. She was struggling with the jumps and the throw landings, so it didn't seem as if she was fully present or something. Maybe the pressure felt overwhelming. But yeah, she had a bad fall there, and was also likely rattled from the other mishaps that occurred. When she went up into that jump, she looked lost in the air. It didn't look like her mind was fully in sync with her body.
See, I watched it and noticed after her first fall she hopped up quickly, after the second fall she was slower to rise and of course she didn’t get up at all after the 3rd. I’ve never seen them skate like that. I don’t think it was nerves. I think she was injured and then possibly gotten a concussion as well. I hope we hear something soon. It’s just a feeling I have like when Chris was injured at Nationals and didn’t tell anyone until after they skated. It could be a wrong feeling. I hope so.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Of all the disciplines, pairs was the easiest for the Americans to win b/c the pairs championships is pretty much similar to Four Continents without the Russians. I guess the only way Americans will win pairs is if the Russians never come back. The Americans are probably hoping the Russians will never come back because that way it will be an easy free ride to the top due to no competition from the remaining countries. That makes the gold medal less worthy because the best competitors are absent. Now if the Russians and Chinese were there and the Americans win the gold, then that's something to be proud of. I'm missing the Russians and Chinese pairs. The Americans are lacking finesse, personality, and power which makes them not interesting or exciting to watch. This pairs competition was not as exciting as the Beijing Olympics, probably the most dull and boring pairs competition ever. It's a shame that Alexa and Brendan's performance is a gold medal one. Sigh....
Since it was so horrible for you I’d try to avoid whoever strapped you down and forced you to watch it. Maybe try watching a movie or something you like better.
 

Skater Boy

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Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Part of me just wants to say cancel 2022 worlds my heart can't take this. War Good byes injuries, banned skaters, doping, missing skates and to see Ashley and Tim skate with her being carried off. Stop the drama! I mean yes Alexa got her gold - yay! But I just cringe thinking of Ashley and a possible concussion. It was horriying in another way to watch the Japanese skate. Who would think with all the disasters Canada would steal a bronze. It seems trite and petty to say we know Japan still has a bright future, Georgia blew their chance at a medal, KF take a bow (and run away with your medal to greater glory). If this was Zoe's last skate it was a top ten.
I’ve only gotten to speak to her at FOFS but she’s always been very nice to me. And her husband is an amazing human being as well.
To each their own. Some will say she is hard worker, some say she put her goals over her marriage and relationship, bu whatever she earned a gold medal with the current conditions. Good for her. They skated well after a hard situatio. The program and celements were solid. No the were not like Sui and Han or the Russians but they weren' t here. I don't think I would expect to win again though if the Russians and Chinese come back.
 

4everchan

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Part of me just wants to say cancel 2022 worlds my heart can't take this. War Good byes injuries, banned skaters, doping, missing skates and to see Ashley and Tim skate with her being carried off. Stop the drama! I mean yes Alexa got her gold - yay! But I just cringe thinking of Ashley and a possible concussion. It was horriying in another way to watch the Japanese skate. Who would think with all the disasters Canada would steal a bronze. It seems trite and petty to say we know Japan still has a bright future, Georgia blew their chance at a medal, KF take a bow (and run away with your medal to greater glory). If this was Zoe's last skate it was a top ten.

To each their own. Some will say she is hard worker, some say she put her goals over her marriage and relationship, bu whatever she earned a gold medal with the current conditions. Good for her. They skated well after a hard situatio. The program and celements were solid. No the were not like Sui and Han or the Russians but they weren' t here. I don't think I would expect to win again though if the Russians and Chinese come back.
steal a bronze? can we show some respect for their journey? Yes, it was a dramatic event. Yes, but "steal a bronze"? Wow JUST Wow !
 

BlissfulSynergy

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Olympics
Given how poor their free was, they shouldn’t have been second in the free
Exactly. Succinct, correct and on-target. As well, Miura/Kihara didn't skate as well as they could have in the sp, but were still gifted extra points by the judges, just because politics abounds. Had M/K skated clean and up to their ability, with the high PCS percentage points they get (not in every category, but often slightly edging others, where its debatable), the judges surely would have placed M/K in front of Knierim/Frazier and Cain-G/LeDuc in the sp.

Let's not join people who minimize the physical injury or question it. Everything that has been said by people who have experience with skating injuries and concussions say that's what it looked like. I could hardly stand to re-watch it, but I did just now. She hit her head on the hard ice, and possibly her chin.
My comments that you quoted were immediately after the event, when I was dumbfounded because I couldn't see close enough what happened. It was so sad and disappointing. And then trying to figure what it could be. Her face was so out of it, and she looked dazed as she seemed to gesture to Timothy at something around her ears and eyes. It was pretty scary, but also very confusing. So yes, I was questioning what actually happened. In part, that's the reaction because Ashley was definitely not herself even when the program started. If you are off mentally and/or physically, it will show up in the difficult jumping maneuvers.

Anyway, I had to leave home after the event, and when I got back later this evening, I reviewed that portion of the replay several times. I realized it wasn't just that Ashley was overwhelmed. It was a hard, awkward fall. I could see that her neck snapped back. Then I saw online that someone suspected she'd hit her chin. I already explained how I took it in after actually seeing the replay. Obviously, skaters are trained to get up, and it's so scary that she tried and couldn't. But the whole thing was strange. A lot of the questioning is out of shock, and also out of the fact that Ashley was struggling with all the jumping elements before that last jump. I wanted to know what happened, not questioning that she was clearly unable to continue. Hitting your chin is part of your face and head. I don't think the top or side of her head touched the ice, but since it was a faraway angle, it's possible her chin and then her forehead touched the ice, and then her neck snapped back. It happened very quickly and unexpectedly. She did not seem to be quite her usual self during that performance. I hope she's better now and there are no long term effects from the head and neck injury.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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German commentators agree with you regarding M/K, they didn't understand at all why they were ahead of J/R. There are several reasons why J/R are disliked and because they are not popular instead of M/K there is not much of an outrage and 'wuzzrobbed' there. Fact is that several pairs outskated M/K and they didn't have a faultless SP either. If you look strictly on what was put out there on the ice without knowing any history about these skaters, it is a weird scoring that happened there. I say that as someone who really likes M/K and would've loved to see them become World Champions. This is not like in 2012 when Takahashi/Tran won bronze, that felt much more earned.
Of course, and I agree. In an earlier post, after I had a chance to see the replay of the last group, I mentioned how Safina/Berulava and Hase/Seegert watching M/K's fp scores, kind of had puzzled expressions, even with three of them wearing their masks. James/Radford were sitting very stoically. But Eric began clapping and they all did as they noticed the camera on them. I think they all respect Miura/Kihara, but they also likely feel M/K's scores for the fp were unfair.

I used to love watching M/K, and I felt it was going to be so exciting seeing them climb further. But no, they were boosted up immediately after 2021 Worlds and 2021 WTT due to politics leading into the Olympic season. Saying this is what has happened doesn't mean I look down on M/K's actual talent. It just means they didn't suddenly become that much better than teams like K/F, J/R, and Ash/Timothy. It doesn't do M/K a ton of good either to be favored unfairly vs other hardworking skaters. I especially disagree with some of M/K's PCS points being percentage points higher than James/Radford's, especially in the fp.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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Shout out to Alexa/Brandon and to Meno/Sand and K/F's whole team, Chris, Mozer, Michal Brezina included! I love how Alexa answered the question about how she and Brandon were able to maintain their focus immediately after seeing their teammate, Ashley, being taken off the ice due to a bad fall. It takes such composure and staying on an even keel mentally to be able to keep those kinds of distractions from affecting your performance, added to the pressure of having your dream realized, if only you can manage to skate your program up to your ability. Alexa and Brandon both clearly came prepared mentally for this opportunity that presented itself. It's cool to see them step up and grab their dream with two solid, focused, and confident performances.

Michelle Kwan at 2004 Worlds in Germany comes to mind. The man running out onto the ice just before she had to perform did NOT rattle her. Skaters obviously have to be prepared for anything happening, and try to overcome it if they can, while also keeping in mind as Vanessa and Ashley discussed: "One performance, bad or good does not define you."
 

BlissfulSynergy

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And as for Alexa and the Sappenfield thing (which who knows if Alexa even knew about whatever it was) that has absolutely NOTHING to do with how she skated today.
I must have missed something. I feel so disconnected from figure skating goings-on behind-the-scenes, so I don't know what this is in reference to. I rarely go on Twitter, practically never on skating Twitter.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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I also don't see medical professionals bringing out a stretcher in such instances.
The stretcher was brought out immediately before they knew Ashley's condition. I think that after what happened to Chelsea Liu and Danny O'Shea at Warsaw Cup, the protocol is going to be 'bring out the stretcher' whenever anyone can't get up after a fall. It was painful seeing them walk Chelsea Liu off the ice at that event in Poland, while Danny walked off by himself with a bleeding wound on his head.

the tech panel was so economical with levels until K/F took the ice. Suddenly levels 4 started to be showered on every element.
K/F apparently got level 4s because they skated so well. Please stop being dismissive of K/F's talent. As @el henry stated, K/F stayed focused and skated to their ability under a great deal of pressure and distractions, which they brilliantly managed, and which was all that was in their control to do. Some skaters are not able to do that. Even Russians don't always skate perfectly clean. And some of the Russian teams don't deserve the overly high PCS they get either.
 
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BlissfulSynergy

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I'm happy for them, but hope next season, the podium will have better scores. This is a bit underwhelming podium overall, with the mistakes I mean.
Only one team on the podium made numerous mistakes in the free program: Miura/Kihara. Plus, it's not as if we haven't seen Russian pairs skaters on the podium after they made mistakes in their performances.

The judges could have chosen to not overscore Miura/Kihara for a messy free skate, and we might have seen a podium consisting of K/F; J/R; and Safina/Berulava, who all skated well in this competition. Your hope for 'better scores,' is rather silly, considering that scores vary from competition to competition. Half the time, the Russian pairs skaters receive overly high scores anyway, especially on PCS, which many of them do not deserve. Scoring is generally a messy unfair affair to begin with. Seeing scores within reason and skaters representing countries that abide by the rules on doping, is rather refreshing.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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I do hope they don't overdo it in the K&C though in light of what happened to their teammates.
It is no disrespect to Ashley & Timothy for Alexa/Brandon, and their coach, Todd Sand, to be emotional and to celebrate their victory in the kiss 'n cry. It's been a long time coming. There's no need to rain on their parade, nor to police how they are supposed to act in the kiss 'n cry.
 

surimi

Body positivity goes BOTH ways.
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Nov 12, 2013
Pairs free is the only event I have seen in its entirety so far.
The standout performances were Knierim/Frazier and Hase/Seegert for me. Such nice clean skates, very easy on the eye. :clap:
James/Radford made fewer mistakes than Miura/Kihara so I'd have them silver, but I am not too outraged as it could have gone either way. It's true that the PCS were generous considering the mistake-strewn performance of the Japanese team. I like both of these couples and I hope they're more solid next year (if James/Radford choose to continue). I also hope to see Japan start a pair program. If Miura/Kihara got this successful, there must be other promising pair skaters in Japan among the taller boys and short women with potential waiting to be tapped into.
Safina/Berulava aren't clicking with me yet, but they also skated very solid programs, and I look forward to their development in the upcoming season.
Our commentators were saying that Ziegler/Kiefer are retiring at this event, so wishing them joy in their next endeavors! I liked this team.
Nice clean-ish skates for the Kovalevs and Jones/Boyadji, too!
One of the best programs in this struggle-laden season for Walsh/Michaud. Good for them to be able to end their season on a higher note than when they started out, and glad they made use of the opportunity they got when Moore-Towers and Marinaro retired.
And last but not least, Cain-Gribble and LeDuc. I was very sorry to see Ashley get injured. I wish her a full recovery. They're interesting to watch as a pair, but Ashley's repeated concussions do not sound very promising for their continued career. I hope they and their team are very careful in considering their next steps, although I'll be happy to see them again in competitions if they choose to carry on.
 

yelyoh

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It is no disrespect to Ashley & Timothy for Alexa/Brandon, and their coach, Todd Sand, to be emotional and to celebrate their victory in the kiss 'n cry. It's been a long time coming. There's no need to rain on their parade, nor to police how they are supposed to act in the kiss 'n cry.
Then we or at least I will have to agree to disagree.
 

BlissfulSynergy

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Then we or at least I will have to agree to disagree.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Alexa spoke during the fp press conference about her immediate reaction to seeing what happened to her teammate, Ashley Cain-Gribble. Alexa said she was startled, but then quickly knew she needed to maintain calm in order to go out and achieve what she was there to do. Brandon & Alexa also spoke about their concern for Ashley & Timothy during the press conference.

Honestly, K/F had to focus on their skating, or they may not have performed well. When they are in the kiss 'n cry, they are exhausted, excited and anxious to see their marks. Their coach, Todd Sand, was quietly but clearly emotional and very proud of K/F. There were lots of hugs, along with knee and back rubs. When the final scores were posted, Alexa jumped up and yelled victoriously, and then happily pushed on Brandon's shoulder in excitement. Brandon had a look on his face that seemed to be a mixture of gratitude and overwhelming emotions. He kept moving his mask around on his face, and he jumped up briefly, but I didn't see him yell. He took it in differently than Alexa because they have different personalities.

I don't know what you consider 'overdoing it in the kiss 'n cry' to be in the first place. Also, you apparently made your comments prior to seeing K/F in the kiss 'n cry, which seems a bit of over-anticipating how they might react. What I can see that is more important: Alexa & Brandon stayed calm and focused throughout both parts of the event, no matter what else was going on arround them.
 
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Jasira

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Feb 14, 2018
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Germany
I´m so happy for Hase/Seegert. They got their redemption after their hard time at the Olympics. They so deserved this. :love:

But my heart broke for Ashley and Tim yesterday. 💔 That was a once in a lifetime chance for them to win the world championships. 🥺 I really hope that Ashley can recover very fast. Wishing her all the best. :pray:
 

cathlen

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May 2, 2015
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Only one team on the podium made numerous mistakes in the free program: Miura/Kihara. Plus, it's not as if we haven't seen Russian pairs skaters on the podium after they made mistakes in their performances.

The judges could have chosen to not overscore Miura/Kihara for a messy free skate, and we might have seen a podium consisting of K/F; J/R; and Safina/Berulava, who all skated well in this competition. Your hope for 'better scores,' is rather silly, considering that scores vary from competition to competition. Half the time, the Russian pairs skaters receive overly high scores anyway, especially on PCS, which many of them do not deserve. Scoring is generally a messy unfair affair to begin with. Seeing scores within reason and skaters representing countries that abide by the rules on doping, is rather refreshing.
I'm well aware of scores varying form compeition to competion, doesn't change a fact that apart from K/F no one had two clean programs. I watch Figure Skating for about 12 years, no need to tell me how comeptitions look. And the comment about my "hope is rather silly" is totally of out order. Yeah, stupid me, hoping that top 3 will have better than 60 TES points in Free, because that obviously never happens :rolleyes: Maybe you should stop treating me as a person who doesn't know anything.... And of course stupid me not knowing that scores are messy. I really needed the reminder, because obviosuly this is the first time I watch FS and I don't know anything!
 
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