2022 World Championships: Pairs Short Program

[whatif]

Are people really writing 3 pages long essays about the rise of US pair skating based on this competition?
There is literally nobody compete with in PCS, the closest competitors are complete newcomers and even they're just one mistake away from snatching the placements from both teams.

Americans did OK here, so kudos, but given circumstances, there is nothing to write home about. You have to completely fall over the place to not finish at the top here for the seasoned and mos experienced skaters like K/F and C/L.

 

[TwinnerA]

Am I the only one who is superstitious about the small medals? Last time someone I loved had a small gold medal it didn’t end well for them.

I'm guessing you are thinking of Gracie in 2016?

 

[labgoat]

You haven’t unless you recall back to 1979

You are forgetting about the Carruthers, Watson/Oppegard, Meno/Sand to name a few...

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm a big fan of the Japanese team, but I would actually have put C-G/L ahead of them in PCS. Like you and the judges, I would put K/F behind both of them in PCS.

Definitely, Ash/Timothy should be higher than Miura/Kihara in PCS. I have to check the protocols. I believe that Knierm/Frazier are highly athletic and well-matched. They've only been together for two seasons, so their accomplishments are pretty amazing. Their athleticism and power are their assets. They have a different style than M/K and Ash/Timothy. But IMHO, both K/F and M/K are not too far apart competitively. The big difference is that Alexa/Brandon have greater veteran pairs experience, with other partners. Kihara has a lot of experience too, but still not as much as Alexa/Brandon, with other partners. I do not see any appreciable PCS difference between K/F and M/K. Maybe in a few categories, M/K should get the edge, but not by much.

What I've seen previously is the judges spotting M/K a few percentage points higher in every PCS category. I guess it's subjective, and judges like how Kihara, in particular, emotes. Miura isn't that special in terms of PCS vs Alexa, aside from Miura's soft knees. Otherwise, both Alexa and Miura have great enthusiasm, vigor, and diva goals -- with Alexa having the edge in my view on polish and experience. Miura/ Kihara are fortunate to have found each other and just clicked, because neither were very special or consistent with their previous partners.

Meanwhile, Ash/Timothy have always stood out for their lines, unison, and performance qualities. Plus, they are just determined warriors who have steadily improved every season, while overcoming many ups-and-downs.

 

[moonvine]

Right....We can't Jinx it. Remember Mirai's small gold in 2010....

or Gracie’s in 2016

 

[moonvine]

You are forgetting about the Carruthers, Watson/Oppegard, Meno/Sand to name a few...

I was only counting golds.

 

[moonvine]

I'm guessing you are thinking of Gracie in 2016?

Yes. That was a big nightmare. I would be in jail for beating the snot out of Frank Carroll but I can’t watch her skate from jail so I restrained myself.

 

[readernick]

I enjoyed this competition even though ( unlike in the women's event) I really like the missing skaters, too.

K/ F were great. I actually enjoy this style of program from them. Alexa is a great performer what had been lacking from this team is a similar commitment from Brandon. However, I noticed an improvement here. I think they have a good chance to win or get second here. They tend to have a TES advantage over the other American pair and M/K. Alexa struggles a bit with the 3S but their other pairs elements, particularly their throws are the best of the field.

C/L have the best pairs SP of the year ( other than S/H) imho. Their twist here was the best I have every seen from them. In fairness, I actually think they have the weakest SS of the top three teams but their lines and interpretation are the best. I wonder if they are capable of scoring as high as K/F and M/K in the FS? They haven't done it yet internationally, but if they can pull off a performance like they had at US Nationals here, then they could win.

I love M/K so much. But, I hate their programs with a passion so I have complicated feelings. They have the best SS ( honestly even if the Russians and Chinese were here their SS are only rivaled by T/M S/H) and their lifts are stunning. Those strong basics will always lead to a PCS advantage. They also have such a joyful quality on the ice and the nicest SBS jumps, too. They left themselves in a bit of hole today but I think they are the most likely to go clean in the freeskate.

I don't see anyone else making the podium unless one of these teams melts down and the Georgian's skate perfectly. The Georgian's are great technically but leave me a bit cold from a PCS standpoint. They are still young. This is the most I have every enjoyed J/R's skating despite the errors but I can't see them being a factor here.

 

[mrrice]

or Gracie’s in 2016

That was really tough to watch.....

 

[gold12345]

Alexa & Brandon were fantastic. Their throw triple flip in the SP has gotten so strong in recent months, and I don't understand how it scored only +3 from some judges even when she landed it beautifully. I'm not sure if skating first in the group helped, but maybe if they moved the 3FTh to the other side of the rink they could show it off better and you could better see just how much distance it gets. They easily have some of the most explosive & athletic throws in the world.

K/F have had more strong skates in their 8 or so competitions so far than Alexa had in her entire 8 year partnership with her previous partner. She's calmer with Brandon, and hopefully she can stay calm. After getting the small gold medal and being asked about matching Babilonia/Gardner's result from 1979, she got very quiet and you can tell she's trying to stay even-keeled and not affected by pressure. But in general, she is calmer in this partnership and it allows her to skate more up to her potential.

K/F have skated together less than 2 years and have had both their seasons disrupted by the pandemic, especially the first season. They're doing an outstanding job, and hopefully they will stay together no matter the result of this competition so that they can continue to build on what they've done and explore new programs. Everyone says the opposite, but I actually think this SP suits Brandon a bit more than Alexa even though Alexa is feisty and has personality.

Both US pairs did great and are showing great improvement. Ashley & Timothy have shown much better consistency in the SP as of late. I consider the SP the stronger of their two programs; it's choreographed well and they can shine in the step sequence, the SBS spins, and they only have to do one lift. Her 3Lo is heavily pre-rotated, but she's standing up more of them now. I don't agree with their throw scoring so close to Alexa & Brandon's, but it was one of their better throws.

Final placement is right, what I am not sure about is this gap between first two and Japanese and then Georgians

The Georgians had a near hand down on the 3T, a death spiral that received no level, their twist is okay. I haven't been able to watch the event again yet because Peacock is so slow, but I thought Miura/Kihara got away with at least a q on her 3T. Their twist catch could also be better--- it either touched his shoulder or came very close it. Maybe they should have scored a bit closer to the Georgians, but out of all these pairs, M/K were the favorite, and so their edge over them is no surprise. I would have scored Cain-Gribble/LeDuc a little lower, but they were better than M/K today.

Americans did OK here, so kudos, but given circumstances, there is nothing to write home about. You have to completely fall over the place to not finish at the top here for the seasoned and mos experienced skaters like K/F and C/L.

The most experienced skaters in the field are James and Radford. C-G/L have had the longest partnership, but K/F are quite new. A new pair that has competed on foreign soil only 5 times scoring 76+ in a SP is absolutely something to write home about. But I get that people are going to rain on these pairs' parades because not every country was allowed to compete here. But this is a great competition, with a great race to decide the medals. And pairs like the Germans and Austrians also skated better than they did at the Olympics.

 

[moonvine]

That was really tough to watch.....

Yes.

 

[moonvine]

Alexa & Brandon were fantastic. Their throw triple flip in the SP has gotten so strong in recent months, and I don't understand how it scored only +3 from some judges even when she landed it beautifully. I'm not sure if skating first in the group helped, but maybe if they moved the 3FTh to the other side of the rink they could show it off better and you could better see just how much distance it gets. They easily have some of the most explosive & athletic throws in the world.

K/F have had more strong skates in their 8 or so competitions so far than Alexa had in her entire 8 year partnership with her previous partner. She's calmer with Brandon, and hopefully she can stay calm. After getting the small gold medal and being asked about matching Babilonia/Gardner's result from 1979, she got very quiet and you can tell she's trying to stay even-keeled and not affected by pressure. But in general, she is calmer in this partnership and it allows her to skate more up to her potential.

K/F have skated together less than 2 years and have had both their seasons disrupted by the pandemic, especially the first season. They're doing an outstanding job, and hopefully they will stay together no matter the result of this competition so that they can continue to build on what they've done and explore new programs. Everyone says the opposite, but I actually think this SP suits Brandon a bit more than Alexa even though Alexa is feisty and has personality.

Both US pairs did great and are showing great improvement. Ashley & Timothy have shown much better consistency in the SP as of late. I consider the SP the stronger of their two programs; it's choreographed well and they can shine in the step sequence, the SBS spins, and they only have to do one lift. Her 3Lo is heavily pre-rotated, but she's standing up more of them now. I don't agree with their throw scoring so close to Alexa & Brandon's, but it was one of their better throws.




The Georgians had a near hand down on the 3T, a death spiral that received no level, their twist is okay. I haven't been able to watch the event again yet because Peacock is so slow, but I thought Miura/Kihara got away with at least a q on her 3T. Their twist catch could also be better--- it either touched his shoulder or came very close it. Maybe they should have scored a bit closer to the Georgians, but out of all these pairs, M/K were the favorite, and so their edge over them is no surprise. I would have scored Cain-Gribble/LeDuc a little lower, but they were better than M/K today.




The most experienced skaters in the field are James and Radford. C-G/L have had the longest partnership, but K/F are quite new. A new pair that has competed on foreign soil only 5 times scoring 76+ in a SP is absolutely something to write home about. But I get that people are going to rain on these pairs' parades because not every country was allowed to compete here. But this is a great competition, with a great race to decide the medals. And pairs like the Germans and Austrians also skated better than they did at the Olympics.

Do you have a link to the press conferences?

 

[skylark]

I’m just looking back to see what I missed and, wow! @skylark, you must tell me where you buy this! And lime curd, too. Signed, fellow lime lover

Looks like we're our of the limey right now. I thought the ginger preserve was local, but the jars we have right now are by a company in Scotland, "Mackays." Cooked the original way, in copper pans!

 

[mrrice]

You are forgetting about the Carruthers, Watson/Oppegard, Meno/Sand to name a few...

They did medal but, not gold. We have to go back to Tai and Randy for gold. As long as they skate well, I'll be thrilled.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Am I the only one who is superstitious about the small medals? Last time someone I loved had a small gold medal it didn’t end well for them.

I never have paid too much attention to 'small medals.' It is just something nice that the ISU does to encourage and reward skaters. It's not the whole shebang.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Are people really writing 3 pages long essays about the rise of US pair skating based on this competition?

LOL. Sorry, my historical post probably belongs in the general pairs thread or in U.S. pairs thread. I can get carried away responding to posters who bring up something I know a little bit about, having lived through some of it, and having done the research.

The point is that the U.S pairs discipline has a strong legacy, however much they have been unfairly looked down upon. Plus, I think it is important to have the proper perspective about U.S. pairs' historical successes and depth, even during recent decades when they weren't getting on major podiums. Everybody is talking about the top U.S. teams, as if it is out of the ordinary or something unheard of for them to excel. U.S. pairs have been steadily excelling and working hard for this moment and this opportunity to happen.

The thread commentary and my response is not just based on this competition. U.S. pairs have been very good and very competitive for awhile. What happened to Alexa/Brandon and Ash/Timothy at 2021 Worlds, is what made this year's opportunities possible.

As to the rest of your comments, oh well. It sounds like you aren't happy watching U.S. pairs teams beating other competitors at a major competition. The Russians and the Chinese are not here for reasons. Athletes are only able to compete against whoever else is competing. That's the way it goes. Chinese pairs will surely return next season Right now, it's up-in-the-air when the Russian skaters will be allowed to return to ISU competition. As it is, there are still Russian skaters and Russian coaches able to compete and be in Montpelier due to representing countries other than Russia. I believe Serafina/Berulava's coach might be Russian.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I love M/K so much. But, I hate their programs with a passion so I have complicated feelings.

M/K are feel good and very popular, particularly with the judges this season. People keep talking about U.S. teams doing so well, often dismissively, but M/K's precipitous rise in scoring has been interesting, and also a bit politically motivated, IMO. M/K are very good together, but some of their minor glitches get overlooked (e.g., some issues occasionally with the twist -- here, it looked like her knee touched his shoulder on their dismount). I think M/K are fun to watch, but they also need more seasoning, and they need to refresh their programs. Both programs are two years old, which I believe was strategic, in order to allow them to work hard on improving on everything, without having to learn new choreography. They need to mix it up and show what other type of programs they can tackle.

If not for their several minor errors (due to still gaining confidence with each other as a new partnership), James/Radford would be in fourth position, ahead of Safina/Berulava. J/R should be ahead of S/B anyway by virtue of experience, polish, performance abilities.

Someone asked for a link to press conferences. The videos are up on YouTube for Women and Pairs. Here's the pairs small medal ceremony and press conference:

Small Medals & Press Conference: Pairs Short Program | Montpellier 2022 | #WorldFigure

To license ISU footage: https://bit.ly/3M7bcaF SUBSCRIBE to our channel:https://www.youtube.com/SkatingISU?sub_confirmation=1LIKE us on Facebook:https://www....

www.youtube.com

 

[ice_tulip]

Hi guys, I haven't gotten to read the thread because I'm trying to avoid spoilers. Right now I'm so upset! I subscribed to PeacockTV so I could watch Worlds on demand. The pairs ended around 9 hours again and yet it is STILL not posted! Can't believe it! I was looking forward to watching it all day long, finally sat down to watch, and now it just says"replay soon." What kind of crap on-demand coverage is that?? I'm just livid! Does anyone know any other way to watch it on-demand now? I don't even see videos on Youtube. I'm so disappointed.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Hi guys, I haven't gotten to read the thread because I'm trying to avoid spoilers. Right now I'm so upset! I subscribed to PeacockTV so I could watch Worlds on demand. The pairs ended around 9 hours again and yet it is STILL not posted! Can't believe it! I was looking forward to watching it all day long, finally sat down to watch, and now it just says"replay soon." What kind of crap on-demand coverage is that?? I'm just livid! Does anyone know any other way to watch it on-demand now? I don't even see videos on Youtube. I'm so disappointed.

I don't know why they are taking so long to make the pairs replay available. I didn't see the first teams, so I planned to watch the stream again. Peacock is getting on my nerves. They love taking money out of people's accounts every month on schedule, but they have trouble providing the services we pay for consistently and ON TIME!

Maybe there's something afoot of a technical nature. But no, it shouldn't take this long for the pairs sp replay to be made available. Once again, I'm wondering whether it has something to do with K/F's sp music litigation. But, if that's the case, then mute their f'ing music and put the replay up already!!!

 

[CoyoteChris]

Yes. That was a big nightmare. I would be in jail for beating the snot out of Frank Carroll but I can’t watch her skate from jail so I restrained myself.

Hummmmm....after some things he said to Mirai, I might join you....when you are my age, life in prison without parole isnt much of a deterrent! LOL!