2023 U.S. Nationals Sr. Pairs Free Skate

[BlissfulSynergy]

I said either condemn everyone equally or give everyone the same sort of benefit of the doubt

I disagree with this. Context in every case is important. Before being judgmental, I want to hear the comments in full context, which provides tone and intent.

Also, I disagree with conflating and equally condemning commentary by individual commentators from very different eras. Further, if this conversation is necessary to continue, can it please be taken to an appropriate thread!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Ashley Wagner has literally been doing commentary for several days for some stream no one (including her) knows where it is. I hope they’re at least paying her for it.

I thought it was Ashley giving commentary for the first ice dance groups in the RD on Peacock. But suddenly, her voice disappeared for the rest of the event. What's up with that!?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

But BlissfulSynergy said that Dick didn't mean it that way. I responded that I don't think anyone can say for sure exactly if another person did or didn't mean it that way. Or what they were thinking (or not thinking) when they said it.

Again, this should be taken to a different thread. I was merely sharing my thoughts on certain comments I read about the event.

When we discuss Dick Button, we are talking about an icon of the sport. Was he perfect as a commentator? No, of course not! But anyone taking any comment he made out of context, and claiming that he intended it in a mean-spirited way against any skater, is simply wrong.

I listened to Dick's commentary from the 1968 Olympics to the end of his career. I've read his book. I met him in-person once. And I've heard others in the sport discuss him and his many contributions. He could be blunt, but he was also passionate, witty, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic about the sport. Some skaters may not have liked his critiques, but most respected the fact that his comments were not meant personally nor with petty intent. Many came to respect and to heed his critiques of their skating.

I didn't always agree with Dick, nor have I agreed with every critique Johnny has made in the booth. Both of these guys are very witty and sometimes tongue-in-cheek and OTT. But mean-spirited? Nope!

 

[SubRosa]

I don't remember the rule exactly, but I do recall thinking, "Wow, before this, I bet no one ever thought this rule could come into play, because it's so unlikely that these exact circumstances could occur."

Rule 378 Entries ISU Championships Single & Pair Skating & Ice Dance
3. Procedure to determine additional (more than one) entries in ISU Championships:
(a) Overall Entry Quotas per ISU Member for each Championships/discipline:

In order to determine such Overall Entry Quotas . . . (buncha stuff snipped)

However, the Competitors who withdrew because of:

- illness or injury, (provided this illness or injury is certified by the ISU Medical Advisor) or
- unexpected damage to the equipment during the warm up or the performance (provided this damage of the equipment is certified by the Referee),

are not considered as entered for the purpose of this Rule if they did not start or finish the Free Skating/Free Dance, but were among the top ten in the Short Program/Rhythm Dance.

Could be called the Urmanov Rule, as it was exactly this sort of unforeseen possibility that cost Russia a men's spot for the 1998 Olympics. At 1997 Worlds, after placing first in the SP, Urmanov withdrew with a groin injury, and received the maximum placement points (16? 18? 20? I forget) for not finishing the competition. In those days, if a country had three berths, the placement of all three competitors/teams counted towards determining the number of spots that country received for next year's competition. Despite Yagudin's 3rd and Kulik's 5th place, the three men together accumulated too many points, and only qualified two for the 1998 Olympics. The new-at-the-time point system for earning berths went through a few amendments after it produced several such unwelcome results.

Sorry, a bit off topic, just wanted to give the history of the rule

 

[TontoK]

@SubRosa That is very interesting and it's relevant.

Thank you.

 

[moonvine]

I thought it was Ashley giving commentary for the first ice dance groups in the RD on Peacock. But suddenly, her voice disappeared for the rest of the event. What's up with that!?

As I said, she was doing commentary for some elusive world feed that no one has ever located. Someone at Peacock fell asleep at the switch for a few skaters until they woke back up and turned her off.

Oddly the exact same thing happened with Ben Agosto last year, but we knew where the stream was last year.

That’s probably the craziest thing of the entire event. She commented for hours and no one (including her) has any idea where that feed went.

 

[moonvine]

Rule 378 Entries ISU Championships Single & Pair Skating & Ice Dance
3. Procedure to determine additional (more than one) entries in ISU Championships:
(a) Overall Entry Quotas per ISU Member for each Championships/discipline:

In order to determine such Overall Entry Quotas . . . (buncha stuff snipped)

However, the Competitors who withdrew because of:

- illness or injury, (provided this illness or injury is certified by the ISU Medical Advisor) or
- unexpected damage to the equipment during the warm up or the performance (provided this damage of the equipment is certified by the Referee),

are not considered as entered for the purpose of this Rule if they did not start or finish the Free Skating/Free Dance, but were among the top ten in the Short Program/Rhythm Dance.

Could be called the Urmanov Rule, as it was exactly this sort of unforeseen possibility that cost Russia a men's spot for the 1998 Olympics. At 1997 Worlds, after placing first in the SP, Urmanov withdrew with a groin injury, and received the maximum placement points (16? 18? 20? I forget) for not finishing the competition. In those days, if a country had three berths, the placement of all three competitors/teams counted towards determining the number of spots that country received for next year's competition. Despite Yagudin's 3rd and Kulik's 5th place, the three men together accumulated too many points, and only qualified two for the 1998 Olympics. The new-at-the-time point system for earning berths went through a few amendments after it produced several such unwelcome results.

Sorry, a bit off topic, just wanted to give the history of the rule

Thank you! Very interesting!