2023 WTT takeaways?

[Bookseller]

I can't find the list, but the team in first place gets $200,000 and I think 6th gets $130,000 and the rest range in between. It's significant prize money.

 

[el henry]

I thought it was a great event - some suspect scoring but I think the final placements of all teams reflected the quality. I kind of wish they held it every year. Wasn't there some other event that was held in Spokane a few years ago with a different organizer? Is that still a thing?

I also noticed some cross pollination of countries and coaches - such as Miki Ando working with Matteo and team Italy and Bruno Marcotte coaching Riku/Ryuichi. Team Korea had a few Canadian born teammates and Team Canada had a few US born teammates as well.

Question - I know that there is $1M in prize money awarded - does anyone know the breakdown by 1st - 6th place?

Team Challenge Cup was only held once, in Spokane, I think in 2016. It was a great comp. I think that is where Nam did his promposal to Polina Edmunds (maybe not, but it was that kind of comp ) ? And I remember all the skaters from different countries in the KnC with Jason.

It was supposed to be every year or every other year, but never got off the ground. Which just goes to show how difficult this event is to stage and how Japan and the sponsors should be praised, no matter which disciplines participate and when. (after all, as an American I should want three ID teams, right? But I don't )

 

[yesterday]

Question - I know that there is $1M in prize money awarded - does anyone know the breakdown by 1st - 6th place?

You can find it on the last page in the general info WTT thread.

 

[Mathman]

With the lowest acore capped at 14 for the lowest ranked teams, it minimizes the impact of dance and pairs as lowest singles will hurt with much more their team...

To me, this does not necessarily show "disrespect" for the pairs and dance disciplines. It just means that a terrible performance by a single skater will hurt the national team more than a terrible performance in pairs or dance. The sixth place finisher in pairs and dance get 7 points, just like a 6th place finisher in singles does. Nothing would be gained by, for instance, throwing in some even worse pairs and dance teams to grab 7th through 12th places (or to accomplish the same thing by manipulating the ways the scores are computed and tallied.)

True, there is a little bit of "participation medals for everybody" in awarding an extra 6 points to each pairs or dance team no matter what they do on the ice, but I am OK with it.

 

[4everchan]

To me, this does not necessarily show "disrespect" for the pairs and dance disciplines. It just means that a terrible performance by a single skater will hurt the national team more than a terrible performance in pairs or dance. The sixth place finisher in pairs and dance get 7 points, just like a 6th place finisher in singles does. Nothing would be gained by, for instance, throwing in some even wrose pairs and dance teams to grab 7th through 12th places (or to accomplish the same thing by manipulating the ways the scores are computed and tallied.)

True, there is a little bit of "participation medals for everybody" in awarding an extra 6 points to each pairs or dance team no matter what they do on the ice, but I am OK with it.

Ymmv indeed

 

[16Olympics]

I thought it was a great event - some suspect scoring but I think the final placements of all teams reflected the quality. I kind of wish they held it every year. Wasn't there some other event that was held in Spokane a few years ago with a different organizer? Is that still a thing?

I also noticed some cross pollination of countries and coaches - such as Miki Ando working with Matteo and team Italy and Bruno Marcotte coaching Riku/Ryuichi. Team Korea had a few Canadian born teammates and Team Canada had a few US born teammates as well.

Question - I know that there is $1M in prize money awarded - does anyone know the breakdown by 1st - 6th place?

I was curious about Miki Ando with the Italian team, especially with Matteo. Anyone know?

I failed to include Matteo's fantastic free skate in my thoughts on WTT. Who had Matteo placing 2nd in the free on their bingo cards this week? Very well done, Matteo.

 

[el henry]

I thought this quote from the daily highlights compiled by GS was a perfect summary (and showed that Isabeau really did think she was going on vacation )

[Jason] Brown noted that most athletes don't know what to expect if they haven't competed in this event or format.

"They don't understand the level of excitement and the camaraderie and the support", he observed. "After the World Championships, Isabeau really didn't want to compete here. She was like 'I'm done for the season, I worked so hard'. We're like 'no no no no you don't understand. World Team Trophy is such a fun event ...' We convinced her. She was really exhausted after the year, as we all are, but the ones who have done it before know how exciting and how much energy we get from this event. So to see her absolutely shine this week and she's just glowing! I think that just speaks volumes to what this event means to us athletes....

Team USA takes fifth World Team Trophy

2023 World Team Trophy | Day 3 The 2023 ISU World Team Trophy concluded on Saturday with the Pairs’ and Men’s Free Skate in Tokyo, Japan. Team USA won their […]

www.goldenskate.com

 

[Weathergal]

I was curious about Miki Ando with the Italian team, especially with Matteo. Anyone know?

I failed to include Matteo's fantastic free skate in my thoughts on WTT. Who had Matteo placing 2nd in the free on their bingo cards this week? Very well done, Matteo.

I read that apparently Valter Rizzo, Matteo's father and coach, couldn't be at the WTT so he asked Miki Ando to help. He had coached her during her last year in competition. Also Miki's been doing some coaching in Japan.

 

[zebobes]

I thought this quote from the daily highlights compiled by GS was a perfect summary (and showed that Isabeau really did think she was going on vacation )

[Jason] Brown noted that most athletes don't know what to expect if they haven't competed in this event or format.

"They don't understand the level of excitement and the camaraderie and the support", he observed. "After the World Championships, Isabeau really didn't want to compete here. She was like 'I'm done for the season, I worked so hard'. We're like 'no no no no you don't understand. World Team Trophy is such a fun event ...' We convinced her. She was really exhausted after the year, as we all are, but the ones who have done it before know how exciting and how much energy we get from this event. So to see her absolutely shine this week and she's just glowing! I think that just speaks volumes to what this event means to us athletes....

Team USA takes fifth World Team Trophy

2023 World Team Trophy | Day 3 The 2023 ISU World Team Trophy concluded on Saturday with the Pairs’ and Men’s Free Skate in Tokyo, Japan. Team USA won their […]

www.goldenskate.com

I was worried that it was USFS forcing her to compete, but I'm glad that it was her fellow athletes knowing that Isabeau needed to experience enjoying a competition, not being too focused on being perfect, but being able to enjoy the experience with her teammates. The large paycheck she got also probably didn't hurt! The overall feeling from her performance was also much freer than at worlds, I'm looking forward to seeing how she'll improve next year.

 

[icewhite]

I only watched parts. I really like the atmosphere of this competition, the silly hats and glasses and pompons, a competition where enough is at stake to make the skaters be serious but not enough to make me really worry if it goes wrong.
Rizzo's free skate was a highlight I remember.

What is it with Canada, though...

 

[4everchan]

I only watched parts. I really like the atmosphere of this competition, the silly hats and glasses and pompons, a competition where enough is at stake to make the skaters be serious but not enough to make me really worry if it goes wrong.
Rizzo's free skate was a highlight I remember.

What is it with Canada, though...

Canada?
Piper and Paul did better at WTT than worlds.
Max and Deanna nearly beat the world bronze medalists (overall, they edged them in the SP).
The other skaters are not contenders.
No idea why Gogolev was chosen. He's popped jumps all year long.
Keegan is just Keegan... he rarely skates two clean programs back to back.
Maddie has been having issues all year too... Her SP was stellar, beating Isabeau on TES is quite something.
Sara-Maude has very little experience and she wasn't expected to do much better than this.

If you mean the team ranking? It's pretty much where I expected them to finish (I had put them in 5th but in the best case scenario). Camada finished last in 2021 as well. The reality though, is that Canada is still on the low of the cycle. 2018 was the peak of Canadian skating. After that, many people retired. However, with Covid, Canadian skaters were locked out of rinks for the longest period of time. Nobody was training nor competing nor traveling. Even before 2022's games... very few skaters were getting out. This is the first year that looks a bit normal for the athletes, but then, very few were given assignments. It is a factor for the younger skaters who have had very little exposure to high level competition. Sara-Maude hasn't been out much ... Fiona hasn't been out in seniors, so much that she had to stay home as she didn't have 4CC minimums... Gabby is injured.. no idea if she will ever come back...

Where it matters :
Canada at worlds, 3rd and 5th in dance, 4th and 6th in pairs... Keegan 7th... I don't think it's all bad...

I don't think WTT rankings can be a reflection of Canadian skating at any time....
The last time Canada earned a medal was 10 years ago... A silver and it took this all-star team to achieve it
Patrick Chan
Kevin Reynolds
Gabrielle Daleman
Kaetlyn Osmond
Meagan Duhamel / Eric Radford
Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje

 

[icewhite]

Canada?
Piper and Paul did better at WTT than worlds.
Max and Deanna nearly beat the world bronze medalists (overall, they edged them in the SP).
The other skaters are not contenders.
No idea why Gogolev was chosen. He's popped jumps all year long.
Keegan is just Keegan... he rarely skates two clean programs back to back.
Maddie has been having issues all year too... Her SP was stellar, beating Isabeau on TES is quite something.
Sara-Maude has very little experience and she wasn't expected to do much better than this.

If you mean the team ranking? It's pretty much where I expected them to finish (I had put them in 5th but in the best case scenario). Camada finished last in 2021 as well. The reality though, is that Canada is still on the low of the cycle. 2018 was the peak of Canadian skating. After that, many people retired. However, with Covid, Canadian skaters were locked out of rinks for the longest period of time. Nobody was training nor competing nor traveling. Even before 2022's games... very few skaters were getting out. This is the first year that looks a bit normal for the athletes, but then, very few were given assignments. It is a factor for the younger skaters who have had very little exposure to high level competition. Sara-Maude hasn't been out much ... Fiona hasn't been out in seniors, so much that she had to stay home as she didn't have 4CC minimums... Gabby is injured.. no idea if she will ever come back...

Where it matters :
Canada at worlds, 3rd and 5th in dance, 4th and 6th in pairs... Keegan 7th... I don't think it's all bad...

I don't think WTT rankings can be a reflection of Canadian skating at any time....
The last time Canada earned a medal was 10 years ago... A silver and it took this all-star team to achieve it
Patrick Chan
Kevin Reynolds
Gabrielle Daleman
Kaetlyn Osmond
Meagan Duhamel / Eric Radford
Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje

I didn't mean the results of the skaters in this specific event actually... I just don't really understand why Canada is not among the leading countries in singles. I have my hypotheses, but I am not sure about the reasons. I don't think it's the pandemic.

 

[4everchan]

I didn't mean the results of the skaters in this specific event actually... I just don't really understand why Canada is not among the leading countries in singles. I have my hypotheses, but I am not sure about the reasons. I don't think it's the pandemic.

The pandemic is definitely one factor. Not the only one but it's been mentioned by many athletes, coaches and commentators.

One of the other reasons given by Alain Goldberg, regarding women is that they were not pushed to go for harder content from the earlier ages. They would learn how to skate and then include jumps, while in other countries, harder technical content is taught from the beginning. This has finally changed in Canada with the very young kids starting the sport. He said that it will take about 10 years before our women catch up, as the new kids develop stable and harder content. In other words, the current generation will not yet be competitive, but the next one may be better. Sara-Maude, for instance, only 18, has shown on her instagram, 3axel in practice. I don't think I have seen other specimen of this jump in Canada (Alaine was trying it but I don't think she ever succeeded).

The triple triple combo was an oddity just a few years ago.. Now our skaters can do them regularly. Maddie's 3lz-3t is spectacular. She just recently learned the lutz btw... (when she first became National champion, it was her first season with the triple lutz)... In our junior division, I was amazed with how many more of 3-3 combos and harder triples were attempted/landed.

For men, it's hard to replace a guy like Patrick Chan. A few came up but grew taller... a few came up but got injured. Keegan managed to get to the top but he was never what I would personally call a contender for the worlds podium. Note how much shorter he is from all the other guys. It's pretty tough to jump quads at 185cms...

Then, there is the pressure. Canada has had world champions in all disciplines in the last ten years (Patrick last in 2013, Duhamel-Radford, Virtue-Moir and Kaetlyn Osmond). However, in singles, the internal pressure to keep spots after the greats retired have put a toll on the skaters... and that leads to the pressure of then earning a spot... I find our skaters often perform with nerves lately... and this is also why I mentioned the pandemic... Our skaters do not get out much (unlike Europeans in Challengers) and do not have much exposure to high stress events... we will have to wait and see how Skate Canada handles the situation.

If Mods want to switch these last few posts to the Skate of Nations, it may be more appropriate. Sorry for the off-topic.

 

[16Olympics]

I read that apparently Valter Rizzo, Matteo's father and coach, couldn't be at the WTT so he asked Miki Ando to help. He had coached her during her last year in competition. Also Miki's been doing some coaching in Japan.

Thank you!

 

[Mathman]

The last time Canada earned a medal was 10 years ago... A silver and it took this all-star team to achieve it
Patrick Chan
Kevin Reynolds
Gabrielle Daleman
Kaetlyn Osmond
Meagan Duhamel / Eric Radford
Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje

! ! ! ! This line-up has 6 career world championships among them: Chan 3, Osmond 1, Duhamel & Radford 2. (Weaver & Poje only have a world silver and 2 bronzes.) How did the U.S. edge them with a roster whose only world championship would come 10 years later (Chock and Bates, 2023)?

 

[Colonel Green]

! ! ! ! This line-up has 6 career world championships among them: Chan 3, Osmond 1, Duhamel & Radford 2. (Weaver & Poje only have a world silver and 2 bronzes.) How did the U.S. edge them with a roster whose only world championship would come 10 years later (Chock and Bates, 2023)?

The US had Wagner and Gold in their primes; Osmond and especially Daleman (who finished second-last among the women) were just getting started at that point.

 

[4everchan]

! ! ! ! This line-up has 6 career world championships among them: Chan 3, Osmond 1, Duhamel & Radford 2. (Weaver & Poje only have a world silver and 2 bronzes.) How did the U.S. edge them with a roster whose only world championship would come 10 years later (Chock and Bates, 2023)?

In 2013, omly chan was world champion. Our women were so young.

 

[Arriba627]

Question - I know that there is $1M in prize money awarded - does anyone know the breakdown by 1st - 6th place?

Here you go. With this kind of prize money, I'm tempted to run out and get a pair of skates and see if they'll let me participate!!!!

1st placed team: US$ 200’000
2nd placed team: US$ 170’000
3rd placed team: US$ 160’000
4th placed team: US$ 150’000
5th placed team: US$ 140’000
6th placed team: US$ 130’000

 

[moonvine]

I agree with both your points about the Japanese fans and the unnecessary pressure that is put on the young athletes (or any athlete as a matter of fact).

I am not convinced that Ilia, at 18, is way far above what Nathan was skating at that age as you have mentioned. These comparisons may lead to putting pressure on the athletes, for instance, Nathan was already a world champion at 18.

Yes let’s please not do this…to the men, the women, the pairs or dance. Ilia is not the next Nathan Chen. He is the first Ilia Malinin. No more Gracies.

 

[moonvine]

I think this is my favorite event of the season. I would love to see it every season.
I loved bringing back the 6.0 (and the 8.0!)
Loved Ted.
Loved how many of the skaters skated their best.
Hated it was Keegan’s last skate. He can never be replaced.
Why is it only held in Japan?