A different boot brand or Customs?

[shumaislife]

The more I skate in my 2.5month old Jackson Freestyles in 7 W-C/D, the more I can tell it's harming my foot and ankles. I'm here to ask for advice again now that I have a better understanding of my footshape. Is it time for me to jump right into the custom boots, even though my level is at crossovers?

• Toes are roman. 3 longest toes are of equal length then tapers.
• Shape of foot: Evenly wide from ball to instep to accessory navicular, but sharply narrows just at the heel. The sides of my feet are literally parallel and does not taper (except for the heel).
• Arch/volume: Thin foot and naturally low (not fallen nor pronating) arches

I posted in March about how my skates are too loose at the ankles. I've finally diagnosed my problem as being a mismatch between my foot shape and boots. Basically my current boot and internal padding is shaped like a "V" . However, my feet are more like a "U". When I squeeze essentially a "U" foot into a "V" boot, the sides of my feet push out the ankles of my boot to flare out. That's why I never could lace the hooks to hug my ankles. It's either have loose ankles enough to break them, or lace the ankles super tight and get lace bite even with heat molding and Bunga pads. So I've chosen lace bite for now, but it's not a sustainable choice.

I've reached out to John at Rainbo and a local Edea fitter (that's my closest option) to potentially get fitted. I'm just at a loss in terms of what to look for/ask for at this point.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The more I skate in my 2.5month old Jackson Freestyles in 7 W-C/D, the more I can tell it's harming my foot and ankles. I'm here to ask for advice again now that I have a better understanding of my footshape. Is it time for me to jump right into the custom boots, even though my level is at crossovers?

• Toes are roman. 3 longest toes are of equal length then tapers.
• Shape of foot: Evenly wide from ball to instep to accessory navicular, but sharply narrows just at the heel. The sides of my feet are literally parallel and does not taper (except for the heel).
• Arch/volume: Thin foot and naturally low (not fallen nor pronating) arches

I posted in March about how my skates are too loose at the ankles. I've finally diagnosed my problem as being a mismatch between my foot shape and boots. Basically my current boot and internal padding is shaped like a "V" . However, my feet are more like a "U". When I squeeze essentially a "U" foot into a "V" boot, the sides of my feet push out the ankles of my boot to flare out. That's why I never could lace the hooks to hug my ankles. It's either have loose ankles enough to break them, or lace the ankles super tight and get lace bite even with heat molding and Bunga pads. So I've chosen lace bite for now, but it's not a sustainable choice.

I've reached out to John at Rainbo and a local Edea fitter (that's my closest option) to potentially get fitted. I'm just at a loss in terms of what to look for/ask for at this point.

I don't think you need a custom at this point in your skating.

I will say I am confused with what you are posting here because your initial thread said you had a wide foot. And another thread said you naturally pronate https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/arch-pain-causing-pronation.87938/
And now you don't in this current thread we are in?? I'm just trying to understand.


I think you need to look at a Riedell if it's super necessary to get another boot and because you're running out of options. That's my last suggestion on a boot brand. Much of what you are describing has to do with proper or improper fitting (if that's what happened), and then knowing how to properly break in boots. You aren't supposed to tie them all the way up super tight while initially breaking them in. You've had them like what 2 months if that? They probably aren't even broken in yet with the amount of skating and skills you are doing at this point (no that's not meant to insult, it's just reality),unless they were improperly broken in and are now ruined from it. Also, if you are lacing them so tightly that you are getting lace bite through bungas with the level of boot you are in, they are not being laced correctly, were you taught how to do so? I have worn very stiff boots for 25+years and only get occasional mild lace bite with the introduction of bungas years ago.

I'm going to reassure you and restate what many of us (including myself) have told you in your past threads: If this is the issues you are having and the way your feet are, you DO NOT want an Edea. You are going to be in even more pain and they will be too narrow for you, and the tops of them will NOT hug your ankles, because of how they are made.

In the end, you are definitely needing to see a professional fitter that isn't out to just make you spend more money as a solution. I'm not saying your fitter is definitely doing that, but it's something you need to look out for. I know the place you are planning on going now and they are good. Also, what has your coach said about your fit and boots? Have you consulted them?

 

[shumaislife]

So I think I figured out what may be the issue... beyond my flat feet. Interestingly enough, my feet normally supinate a tiny bit.

Thanks always. And I don't mean to confuse. In that thread (quoted), I actually did mention that I don't pronate. I know flat feet are usually due to pronation, but mine are weird. I also do still have a wide foot as mentioned here! It's just also wide at the instep, which causes problems with the shape of Jackson's split width - meaning the boot gets narrower before my foot shape does.

I believe I know how to lace skates properly, only I'm forced to improperly lace. If I tie it any looser, the sides the the boots will flare outwards and I can roll my ankles very easily side to side. And I know that's not supposed to happen. My classmate who ties her fresh new Freestyles even looser has the sides hugging her ankles. But it's totally possible this is all a result of it being not broken in yet.

My group-class coaches think that I don't pronate - at least based on the blade mounting. I'm straight in the factory temporary mount. Fit wise, "they aren't really sure what's up". I did meet someone with the same issue, and she switched to Riedell Vegas (a new Riedell made like... Edeas interestingly) which worked for her. So Riedell might be it.

 

[Minz]

I have Ridell skates. Don’t know much about the arch stuff, but I will say that for someone who has long-ish toes, a wider front and a narrower heel, mine fit me like a glove. I have Riedell Diamond skates. I’m a bit more advanced then you, but I’ve had the same skates since I was doing crossovers. If you are still having foot pain I suggest an orthopedic, perhaps one who works with skaters.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Well it sounds a bit like there's a discrepancy between the volume of your foot and the volume of your leg. The U shaped heel into the V shaped boot isn't it - they are designed like that on purpose to have a snug fit. Your foot is not causing the top of the boot to flare out unnaturally. You may well need custom boots to solve that problem, though that is a LOT of money for a beginner and I'd be more inclined to use bunga pads to take up the space.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks always. And I don't mean to confuse. In that thread (quoted), I actually did mention that I don't pronate. I know flat feet are usually due to pronation, but mine are weird. I also do still have a wide foot as mentioned here! It's just also wide at the instep, which causes problems with the shape of Jackson's split width - meaning the boot gets narrower before my foot shape does.

I believe I know how to lace skates properly, only I'm forced to improperly lace. If I tie it any looser, the sides the the boots will flare outwards and I can roll my ankles very easily side to side. And I know that's not supposed to happen. My classmate who ties her fresh new Freestyles even looser has the sides hugging her ankles. But it's totally possible this is all a result of it being not broken in yet.

My group-class coaches think that I don't pronate - at least based on the blade mounting. I'm straight in the factory temporary mount. Fit wise, "they aren't really sure what's up". I did meet someone with the same issue, and she switched to Riedell Vegas (a new Riedell made like... Edeas interestingly) which worked for her. So Riedell might be it.

Then why is that first thread titled with the word pronation in it if you don't have it?
And you more than likely have a wide TOE BOX, not "instep" that's improper language with skate fitting.
You can't compare your fit to your classmate, it's not like sneakers. It's skate boots and their fit is very dependent on each individual, it's not well so and so's fit right so mine should, no just no it doesn't work like that. I question the lacing regardless.

You don't need a Riedell Vega, they're a 75 stiffness and for single/double jumps, you're doing basics. They also aren't constructed just like Edea, it's actually different. I also fear they'd be too narrow for you anyway.

 

[shumaislife]

Then why is that first thread titled with the word pronation in it if you don't have it?
And you more than likely have a wide TOE BOX, not "instep" that's improper language with skate fitting.
You can't compare your fit to your classmate, it's not like sneakers. It's skate boots and their fit is very dependent on each individual, it's not well so and so's fit right so mine should, no just no it doesn't work like that. I question the lacing regardless.

You don't need a Riedell Vega, they're a 75 stiffness and for single/double jumps, you're doing basics. They also aren't constructed just like Edea, it's actually different. I also fear they'd be too narrow for you anyway.

As I mentioned for this post, I didn't quite understand my foot before. I apologize for the mistake in titling it with "pronation" - but that's honestly what I thought was happening at the time. Promise it wasn't on purpose!

I'm also very sorry I don't know how to properly convey my foot shape. All I'm trying to convey is that I have a wide toebox AND middle-of-foot/arch/instep-region. In fact, Rainbo's John said my foot tracing doesn't look wide because my toebox is so even with the rest of my foot, but my measurements are indeed wide.

I also have questioned the lacing and tried literally all sorts of methods. Proper way with coach's supervision included. If the proper way doesn't work, and every other methods don't work... something is off.

 

[shumaislife]

Well it sounds a bit like there's a discrepancy between the volume of your foot and the volume of your leg. The U shaped heel into the V shaped boot isn't it - they are designed like that on purpose to have a snug fit. Your foot is not causing the top of the boot to flare out unnaturally. You may well need custom boots to solve that problem, though that is a LOT of money for a beginner and I'd be more inclined to use bunga pads to take up the space.

I agree that there a significant discrepancy between the volume of my foot and volume of my ankles, and that customs are $$$. But the pain from lace bite makes it really tempting.

Should I just try layering more Bunga pads for now? I already use one.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Some form of lacebite is common in figure skating: I've been wearing customs for ages, with less padding than they put in now. It's something you get used to, or you just don't skate.

 

[shumaislife]

Some form of lacebite in common in figure skating: I've been wearing customs for ages, with less padding than they put in now. It's something you get used to, or you just don't skate.

Discomfort is fully expected. I am new to figure skating but not to sports in general. I was a D3 college varsity athlete not too long ago.

I can tell that the tendonitis from lace bite has gone past "getting used to". Just trying to find out why that is and how to fix it.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Discomfort is fully expected. I am new to figure skating but not to sports in general. I was a D3 college varsity athlete not too long ago.

I can tell that the tendonitis from lace bite has gone past "getting used to". Just trying to find out why that is and how to fix it.

If you think you have tendonitis, you need to see an orthopedist pronto! Also, you will now have it for life (the pain will come and go after some years but it will always be there).

(Sincerely) That's great that you were a D3 college varsity athlete, congrats. It's very different from figure skating, which we are talking about and trying to get you settled into and know what you are going to face/are facing.

 

[tstop4me]

Discomfort is fully expected. I am new to figure skating but not to sports in general. I was a D3 college varsity athlete not too long ago.

I can tell that the tendonitis from lace bite has gone past "getting used to". Just trying to find out why that is and how to fix it.

If you want to mitigate your lace bite for now with your present boots (until you find a longer term solution), I suggest you try tongue liners. I gave details in a previous thread: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/heel-lifts-slips-and-flat-foot.85061/#post-2578646
(see my Post #12). In your case, the liners can extend from the top of the tongues to about 1 inch in back of the base of the toes; don't extend too close to the toes. Trim as needed. Use normal lacing pattern.

 

[shumaislife]

If you think you have tendonitis, you need to see an orthopedist pronto! Also, you will now have it for life (the pain will come and go after some years but it will always be there).

(Sincerely) That's great that you were a D3 college varsity athlete, congrats. It's very different from figure skating, which we are talking about and trying to get you settled into and know what you are going to face/are facing.

Thank you!! I miss it a lot, and felt figure skating would be a fun new challenge for me. And it is fun! Finding the right equipment and technique is rough, but always thankful to have your and the Lutz Corner expertise to help me out. Bad news is that I can identify the unhappy tendon with 100% certainty, which makes it more likely that the diagnosis is tendonitis. The extensor hallucis longus tendon (and muscle) has a really unique path down the leg which makes it pretty unmistakable. Time to go see a doctor. Hopefully it's not chronic... one can hope, right?

If you want to mitigate your lace bite for now with your present boots (until you find a longer term solution), I suggest you try tongue liners.

Thank you! A liner at least is something I can try as a stopgap in the meanwhile.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You're welcome and I wish you luck, my tendonitis has been a literal pain for the last 20 or so years.

Thank you!! I miss it a lot, and felt figure skating would be a fun new challenge for me. And it is fun! Finding the right equipment and technique is rough, but always thankful to have your and the Lutz Corner expertise to help me out. Bad news is that I can identify the unhappy tendon with 100% certainty, which makes it more likely that the diagnosis is tendonitis. The extensor hallucis longus tendon (and muscle) has a really unique path down the leg which makes it pretty unmistakable. Time to go see a doctor. Hopefully it's not chronic... one can hope, right?


Thank you! A liner at least is something I can try as a stopgap in the meanwhile.