Alysa Liu Ready for Change | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Alysa Liu Ready for Change

Chipewalo

Spectator
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
I feel if everybody taught technique foundation like Elizebeta then quads may take longer but they would be more sustainable with age. Right now you need to jump quad by 15 (or 3A) otherwise you're nothing, and can't make it.

This is why people teach unsustainable quads at such a young age. If senior age limit was hypothetically 17-18, then people would slow the process of teaching quads and start similar teachnique to Elizebeta. They can teach quads like this, but they won't as otherwise their skaters won't succeed.

Alysa Liu is talented enough to land quads at an older age, but her technqiue is not suited for this. If her coach taught her differently she'd be in a great position to learn quads properly and keep them for longer. Even like Rika Kihira or Wakaba (I feel both have potential to learn a quad).
I'm not a skater, but from a strictly logical standpoint, how does anyone know that teaching quads differently to young skaters will result in sustainability? Only very young female skaters are performing quads and that's over the last couple of years. There's no database, no body of knowledge for saying what is sustainable technique and what's not. The so-called "unsustainable" technique is the only way that's worked.

It will be wonderful if someone like Elizaveta can learn a quad at her age and sustain it. Then we'll have an example from which to start a discussion.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I'm not a skater, but from a strictly logical standpoint, how does anyone know that teaching quads differently to young skaters will result in sustainability? Only very young female skaters are performing quads and that's over the last couple of years. There's no database, no body of knowledge for saying what is sustainable technique and what's not. The so-called "unsustainable" technique is the only way that's worked.

It will be wonderful if someone like Elizaveta can learn a quad at her age and sustain it. Then we'll have an example from which to start a discussion.
For a start, relying on throwing a weaker upper body is unsustainable, but using more leg strength and having a strong and stable upper body is more sustainable (albeit harder to generate power).

Rika Kihira, although young uses a lot of leg strength and doesn't throw her upper body around. Trusova is in-between (uses her upper body more than Rika, but less than sherbakova).

Of course this is just one aspect of sustainable technique, but just an example that popped into my head
 

Charlotte 71

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
I'm not a skater, but from a strictly logical standpoint, how does anyone know that teaching quads differently to young skaters will result in sustainability? Only very young female skaters are performing quads and that's over the last couple of years. There's no database, no body of knowledge for saying what is sustainable technique and what's not. The so-called "unsustainable" technique is the only way that's worked.

It will be wonderful if someone like Elizaveta can learn a quad at her age and sustain it. Then we'll have an example from which to start a discussion.

But I think Elizaveta will always be an outlier because she learned the triple Axel at 12. It's not a quad, but it probably prepared her for the approximate demands of rotating a quad far more than triples would have.
 

gliese

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Country
United-States
For a start, relying on throwing a weaker upper body is unsustainable, but using more leg strength and having a strong and stable upper body is more sustainable (albeit harder to generate power).
How do we know this? Yes, we don't have many figure skaters who are in higher ages who perform quads but the vast majority of these skaters never learned quads. However, in the case of triples, watching 1960's figure skating, you will see jump technique using arms in a similar fashion to Trusova and Shcherbakova for triples and even doubles. Of course, this technique has been erased now and you won't see it in men's quads (even Kurt Brownings), but I thought it would be interesting to mention.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
How do we know this? Yes, we don't have many figure skaters who are in higher ages who perform quads but the vast majority of these skaters never learned quads. However, in the case of triples, watching 1960's figure skating, you will see jump technique using arms in a similar fashion to Trusova and Shcherbakova for triples and even doubles. Of course, this technique has been erased now and you won't see it in men's quads (even Kurt Brownings), but I thought it would be interesting to mention.
Medvedeva is an example of why upper body focused technique doesn't work. she has fought back injuries for years at this point, likely due to this. when she was with Brian, he tried to train her to jump with her legs more.
 

gliese

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Country
United-States
Medvedeva is an example of why upper body focused technique doesn't work. she has fought back injuries for years at this point, likely due to this. when she was with Brian, he tried to train her to jump with her legs more.
Do we know if that is the cause? Additionally, one example is not sufficient to make blanket statements.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The bad thing will be if Alysa's technique doesn't hold up through 2022. As a parent, coach, or even a skater, I'd be ok learning technique that doesn't survive into adulthood if it means I'd have a career like Evgenia's (2x OSM, 2x WGM). Alysa has had impressive results as a junior and at senior nationals, but I think she'd be disappointed if she doesn't even make the Olympic team. If she can't bring back the 3A or quad, she's probably unlikely to advance beyond nationals next year.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
The bad thing will be if Alysa's technique doesn't hold up through 2022. As a parent, coach, or even a skater, I'd be ok learning technique that doesn't survive into adulthood if it means I'd have a career like Evgenia's (2x OSM, 2x WGM). Alysa has had impressive results as a junior and at senior nationals, but I think she'd be disappointed if she doesn't even make the Olympic team. If she can't bring back the 3A or quad, she's probably unlikely to advance beyond nationals next year.
Well if she can land 7 clean triples in the fs and 3 in the short she has a chance of going to the olympics still. It's not like Mariah, Karen, Amber and even consistent Bradie don't have their issue. If Alysa has a great program and style she can do it - there are three spots and it is unlike Chen will skate without an UR, Mariah will likely miss at least one jump, Bradie's lacklustre programs/personality, Amber's unpredictability - there are three spots so a clean Liu evenif she doesn't take the title could still have enough with a decent GP go to the olympics even without a 3A or quad
 

Lzbee

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
The bad thing will be if Alysa's technique doesn't hold up through 2022. As a parent, coach, or even a skater, I'd be ok learning technique that doesn't survive into adulthood if it means I'd have a career like Evgenia's (2x OSM, 2x WGM). Alysa has had impressive results as a junior and at senior nationals, but I think she'd be disappointed if she doesn't even make the Olympic team. If she can't bring back the 3A or quad, she's probably unlikely to advance beyond nationals next year.
If Alysa's triples are stable, she'll only need 2 out of the remaining 4 contenders to not do so well. And at the very least, she'll be strong enough to get GP assignments and being so young, she'll have them for a while yet, even if it's just based on reputation.
 
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