Back on the Ice

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Just wanted to report that my skater is officially back on the ice. Our rink opened for "freestyle skating camps" this morning. Each coach selected a "pod" of 12 skaters for 2 hour blocks of time, daily, for 3 weeks. Same skaters each day, temp checks, masks (except when running a program), 6 foot spacing at all times. I'm still not sure about it, but I couldn't keep her away.

I hope everyone gets back on soon, safely. Best of luck to us all.

Update to the update: All seemed to run pretty smoothly. Two coaches for 12 skaters. They were all the coaches regular students so everyone knew everyone. She said she did well, everything was there except 2Lz, which she barely had 3 months ago anyway.
 

theblade

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
The roll-out here is uneven. Some rinks have times back this week; some have had limited time over the past few weeks. Two rinks are still down to earth and no ice.

The system where you are sounds as good as can be hoped for. Thanks for the update!
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Update to the update: All seemed to run pretty smoothly. Two coaches for 12 skaters. They were all the coaches regular students so everyone knew everyone. She said she did well, everything was there except 2Lz, which she barely had 3 months ago anyway.
I'm surprised at this. So her very first time back on the ice, her coach had her practicing double jumps? Was there any discussion with your coach before hand about easing back into skating to avoid possible injury?
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
I'm surprised at this. So her very first time back on the ice, her coach had her practicing double jumps? Was there any discussion with your coach before hand about easing back into skating to avoid possible injury?

Thanks for your concern. She's been strength training and doing off ice exercises (including doubles) with her coach since we shut down. Today they started with progressions from Waltz jump and worked up to her doubles over a 2 hour session. Her coaches are literal national and world class professionals and I trust them. They would never ask her to do something that they didn't think she was ready for. If they thought she was ready for doubles, she was ready. What else is there to do after you're nailing your Axels, bunny hops? She's fearless. Every time I ask her what the difference is between a single and a double she always answers it's just an extra rotation, no big deal, the falls are the same. Of course she fell today, and is a bit sore. I reminded her when she got home of the VERY EXPENSIVE padded pants I bought for her. She gave me a look and said maybe for triples.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I'm surprised at this. So her very first time back on the ice, her coach had her practicing double jumps? Was there any discussion with your coach before hand about easing back into skating to avoid possible injury?

For the majority of skaters they take 1 week before jumping doubles and 2 weeks jumping triples - however if they have 1 to 1 lessons some will start jumping quicker. If you have somebody constantly correcting your technique it is often safer.
Some coaches still would not allow them to jump so quickly to be safe, and I personally wouldn't as you could mess with your technqiue or injuries, but it is definitely possible to.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
2 hour sessions seem really long for any skater that was off the ice for 10 weeks. I know most complain about the ankles hurting by the end of the hour.

Mine did only 1 hour for the first 2 weeks. No way could she have done 2 hours. We are in the third week back and she is only up to 90 minutes.

She did no jumps the first 2 days and by the end of the first week, she had all her jumps up to the double axel "back" but some were sloppy and she said she was missing her spring. Second week we added back the pole coach. By the end of the 2nd week, she could do a triple sal and triple toe but again, they were sloppy.

So things are slowly coming back together.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
2 hour sessions seem really long for any skater that was off the ice for 10 weeks. I know most complain about the ankles hurting by the end of the hour.

Mine did only 1 hour for the first 2 weeks. No way could she have done 2 hours. We are in the third week back and she is only up to 90 minutes.

She did no jumps the first 2 days and by the end of the first week, she had all her jumps up to the double axel "back" but some were sloppy and she said she was missing her spring. Second week we added back the pole coach. By the end of the 2nd week, she could do a triple sal and triple toe but again, they were sloppy.

So things are slowly coming back together.

Seems like a reasonable plan.

To minimise ankle pain for anybody still off the ice, I'd recommend wearing skates at home a few times a week - be careful of course, but bend in them and get used to the feeling.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Fyi. My daughter had done off ice sessions with her coach the entire shutdown. She had also occasionally worn her skates but clearly not enough.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Fyi. My daughter had done off ice sessions with her coach the entire shutdown. She had also occasionally worn her skates but clearly not enough.

You will never get zero ankle pain, but to ensure little as possible maybe wear boots off ice for few hours at time. (My rule for me personally is 4hours a day twice a week as my rink is closed for the foreseeable future)

Ankle strength exercises are a must during lockdown (and stability).
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
She definitely has ankle pain, but as all skaters do has a pretty high tolerance for pain so shrugs it off. Opening here came rather unexpectedly. We really didn't think it would happen for another month so she only had her skates on a couple of times.

Oddly, before the shutdown she was really struggling with her 2s. Now she says it's easy. It was ALL mental, so I guess the break was what she needed.

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe. Sadly one of the coaches is disregarding the mask wearing and the distancing in the parking lot with the parents of her skaters, who are also not respecting the rules. She's unfortunately "untouchable" at our rink, so nothing can be done.

Anyone have mask suggestions that work better than not?
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
She definitely has ankle pain, but as all skaters do has a pretty high tolerance for pain so shrugs it off. Opening here came rather unexpectedly. We really didn't think it would happen for another month so she only had her skates on a couple of times.

Oddly, before the shutdown she was really struggling with her 2s. Now she says it's easy. It was ALL mental, so I guess the break was what she needed.

I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe. Sadly one of the coaches is disregarding the mask wearing and the distancing in the parking lot with the parents of her skaters, who are also not respecting the rules. She's unfortunately "untouchable" at our rink, so nothing can be done.

Anyone have mask suggestions that work better than not?


You will never be able to skate for long if you're wearing a mask properly. Your mask isnt working if you are able to breath easily. Doesnt really matter what mask you use, as it's more for show and to stop you sneezing on somebody or touching your face.

Which is why it's a very strange rule for ice rinks.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
You will never be able to skate for long if you're wearing a mask properly. Your mask isnt working if you are able to breath easily. Doesnt really matter what mask you use, as it's more for show and to stop you sneezing on somebody or touching your face.

Which is why it's a very strange rule for ice rinks.

The rule is wear it as much as possible, not during program run through's or "athletic activity". Still, I've asked her to wear it as much as possible. Coaches are supposed to wear them at all times.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
The rule is wear it as much as possible, not during program run through's or "athletic activity". Still, I've asked her to wear it as much as possible. Coaches are supposed to wear them at all times.

Even so, wearing a mask properly usually means you struggle to breath while jogging - skating in a mask when wearing it properly is much more tricky. Even for basic elements.
It's better than nothing, but if somebody else has covid in proximate and coughs then it wont stop it unless worn very tightly.best defence is taking kids temperaturea before going on the ice.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
The rule is wear it as much as possible, not during program run through's or "athletic activity". Still, I've asked her to wear it as much as possible. Coaches are supposed to wear them at all times.

Have you thought of having her wear a neck gaiter when she's skating? More breathable and easier to take up and down, just make sure she practices distancing since they may not contain droplets as well as masks (I haven't looked into extensive research on it but many athletes have been wearing these during this time of returning).
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Have you thought of having her wear a neck gaiter when she's skating? More breathable and easier to take up and down, just make sure he practices distancing since they may not contain droplets as well as masks (I haven't looked into extensive research on it but many athletes have been wearing these during this time of returning).

I thought that made sense too, I suggested it. Well, let's just say she's moved on to the "fashionableness" of the masks, so I'm out. Wonder if Lululemon makes them...
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
I thought that made sense too, I suggested it. Well, let's just say she's moved on to the "fashionableness" of the masks, so I'm out. Wonder if Lululemon makes them...

Vera Bradley does.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Have you thought of having her wear a neck gaiter when she's skating? More breathable and easier to take up and down, just make sure she practices distancing since they may not contain droplets as well as masks (I haven't looked into extensive research on it but many athletes have been wearing these during this time of returning).

They are better than nothing, and will catch a certain % of droplets when you sneeze. Of course, if somebody else sneezes and the virus becomes airborne then only an N95 respirator will be of any use, and no mask will be able to stop it.
Masks are effective provided the person with the virus is wearing it properly, however to be able to breath in it enough to do a sport such as skating it wont be completely tight, rendering it almost useless.

A neck gaiter is better than nothing, but if there are any gaps it wont be that effective.

A mask, worn correctly stops 95% of pathogen being caught before dissociation into the air; however once dissociate into the air that number is close to 0%.
If worn incorrectly, it stops at most 30% of pathogens - which with covid is not enough.

It sounds like the rink are taking other measures with the temperature readings etc. The best thing about a mask is you cant touch your face. This stops asymptomatic spread through surfaces which means wearing a mask and washing hands will stop that,
However unless masks are worn correctly symptomatic spread will not be stopped, and if the person with the virus is wearing incorrectly it could spread very easily.

Wear a mask, it won't harm: but unless worn properly it wont help for droplet virus spread.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
They are better than nothing, and will catch a certain % of droplets when you sneeze. Of course, if somebody else sneezes and the virus becomes airborne then only an N95 respirator will be of any use, and no mask will be able to stop it.
Masks are effective provided the person with the virus is wearing it properly, however to be able to breath in it enough to do a sport such as skating it wont be completely tight, rendering it almost useless.

A neck gaiter is better than nothing, but if there are any gaps it wont be that effective.

A mask, worn correctly stops 95% of pathogen being caught before dissociation into the air; however once dissociate into the air that number is close to 0%.
If worn incorrectly, it stops at most 30% of pathogens - which with covid is not enough.

It sounds like the rink are taking other measures with the temperature readings etc. The best thing about a mask is you cant touch your face. This stops asymptomatic spread through surfaces which means wearing a mask and washing hands will stop that,
However unless masks are worn correctly symptomatic spread will not be stopped, and if the person with the virus is wearing incorrectly it could spread very easily.

Wear a mask, it won't harm: but unless worn properly it wont help for droplet virus spread.
* Thank you for this post. Now that sports, businesses, and other activities are starting to re-open, it’s critical that we understand these issues. There’s been a lot of confusing and conflicting information, even from health officials. I’d like to reiterate and emphasize certain key points you’ve made, and also expand upon them. It’s important to understand what the purpose of various gear is. The terminology itself has been inconsistent, leading to even more confusion. Below, I’ll define terms as I use them, with the caveat that other people use them differently.

* Naturally, people first think of gear that will protect themselves from external hazards. The main function of a respirator is to protect the wearer from breathing in contaminants from the ambient air. There are a variety of respirators. Those sold at Home Depot, e.g., are designed to protect workers from breathing in hazardous particles such as dust, sand, sawdust, asbestos, fiberglass ...; specialized respirators protect workers from breathing in hazardous chemical fumes, such as cleaning fluids, solvents, and spray paint.

Of present concern are medical-grade N95 respirators designed to protect medical workers from breathing in infectious agents, such as bacteria and viruses. Since the filter material is designed to block a high percentage of microscopic organisms, the filter material inherently cannot be highly breathable. In addition, for a respirator to be effective, it must fitted very snugly about the mouth and nose: otherwise, the wearer will suck in infected air from around the periphery of the respirator. The wearer needs to be fitted properly, and trained in how to don the mask properly and adjust the straps properly. There have been many TV interviews with medical workers who have worked around the clock during this crisis. When the camera zooms in on a close-up of their faces, you will see the imprints of the peripheries of the respirators and the imprints of the straps cut into their faces and the sides of their heads; that’s how snug it must be. Now, medical workers typically aren’t jumping and spinning, so it’s not clear to me whether a respirator will even stay properly seated during the course of a freestyle session.

In addition, since the purpose of a medical-grade N95 respirator is to protect the wearer from external infectious agents, the wearer must also be trained in how to remove the respirator properly. That is, since the outside of the respirator is potentially covered with contaminated muck, if the wearer is careless when taking it off, he will get the muck on his hands and face, and get infected. In particular, a wearer can’t be constantly taking it on-and-off, or sliding it down to his neck and back up to his face.

Given the limited breathability and physical discomfort of a medical-grade N95 respirator, and given the training and discipline required for it to be effective, this is not a good option for a skater (or general public). Besides, health facilities are rebuilding depleted stockpiles of these respirators in preparation for the next round of this crisis (or a new crisis): the general public shouldn’t be trying to grab them up.

* The function of a (face) mask, on the other hand, is to protect other people from the wearer, who is infected or potentially infected. That is, the function of a mask is to prevent, or at least reduce, the amount of contaminated muck the wearer spews into the air; muck that then builds up in the ambient air or on ambient surfaces, and that can then contaminate other people.

The strategy behind masks then is different from the one behind respirators. To rephrase what I said above, the strategy behind respirators is: Assuming that the ambient air is contaminated, a healthy person wears a respirator to prevent, or at least reduce, inhaling contaminants. Whereas the strategy behind masks is: Assuming a person is infected, he wears a mask to prevent, or at least reduce, spewing out contaminated muck into the ambient air and onto ambient surfaces. If everyone wears a mask, the ambient air and ambient surfaces stay relatively free of contaminants, and the probability of a healthy person becoming infected by inhaling contaminated air or touching contaminated surfaces is greatly reduced.

Given the challenges of executing the strategy with respirators (for the general public), executing the strategy with masks is more viable. [ETA: Though the biggest challenge here is that nearly all of the people in a given area must comply in order for the mask strategy to work to protect everyone; whereas, with a respirator, only the wearer needs to comply to protect himself.] The requirements for masks are less stringent than those for respirators. They are more breathable, more comfortable, and don’t need to be tightly snug. And since the function is to contain the wearer’s own muck to himself, he is free to take it on-and-off, or slide it up-and-down (though he should be careful not to wave it around, should be careful where he puts it down, and should be careful to wash his hands after handling a used mask to avoid spreading muck from the mask).

As is the case with respirators, there are different grades of masks. The most effective is a medical-grade surgical mask. Again, given the need to conserve the supply for medical workers, the general public shouldn’t be trying to grab them up. Hence the relaxed guidance to allow “face coverings”, which include such random articles as scarves, bandanas, and neck gaiters. The philosophy here being, given the shortage of proper gear, anything is better than nothing. Which is true with the caveat: as long as a person doesn’t get a false sense of security, and does something with a makeshift mask that he wouldn’t do if he had no mask at all. So a mask is a viable option for a skater, with a balance between wearability and effectiveness.

* <To be continued. I’m tired of writing; and, if you’ve read this far, you’re tired of reading. I’ll continue later with a discussion of face shields (and why I think they might be the best choice for skaters).>
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
* <To be continued.

thanks for your entire post, the information within it was fairly accurate.

One point is that if your mask is not completely tight to the point of discomfort, then droplets can still escape from the person wearing the mask, rendering it almost useless. Even surgical masks are difficult to wear during intensive exercise if worn properly. They take temperatures and check symptoms, so that is probably the best thing they can do along with the system of having the same people each time.
Coaches wearing masks also good thing as they could wear properly.

The fact they take them off for programs also makes them worth less as it can spread if the person doing the program has covid.

I'll wait for your points about face shields before saying anything else :)
 
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