Boot recommendations for learning Axel for tween/teen skater

[Sk8erMom3]

Any recommendations for my tween skater age 12 who is starting to learn axels, at the ISI FS 5 level? She had been wearing Riedell Diamonds but I am worried that this boot is not supportive enough for axels. He foot shape is "stretched foot" (toes each a bit shorter going lateral from the big toe, medium width foot) and does not have high arches. Her arches are rather low and has slight foot pronation when just standing barefoot. She is about 110lbs and maybe of just under 5' tall.
All her friends at her level are getting Edea Chorus. Edeas are the rave at her rink. However when she tried these on in her size, she hated them because her heel was sliding/slipping and there was no ankle support. The guy at the pro shop said he could pinch the heel (just above the heel) but this boot cannot be heat molded. He also said that the ankles are supposed to be loose in Edeas and the foot should be tight. However I thought ankle support is what you need for the higher level jumps.
The pro shop guy then recommended Riedell Stride, but others said do NOT get that, ...because its too low level? Also the attached blade (that you pay for) needs to be removed, holes plugged and an intermediate blade installed. Seems like a lot of effort and expense for questionable results.
So Risport was suggested by more experienced mom friend, who's skater used Electra light when she was at my daughter's level. However, I am reading alot of posts on here, that Risport is for high arches but also read somewhere they can be comfortable for people with flat or pronated feet. Can Risport still be good if you do not have high arches, but regular to low arches?
Any pro advice here? We are also trying to visit a fitter but its difficult to schedule availability, and my skater/student's hours.

 

[gliese]

Risport is good for high arches because it has room for the arch to not have pressure on it. I have low arches and risport has been great. If Riedell has been working I'd recommend getting a higher level Riedell boot.

Would not recommend Edea.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Any recommendations for my tween skater age 12 who is starting to learn axels, at the ISI FS 5 level? She had been wearing Riedell Diamonds but I am worried that this boot is not supportive enough for axels. He foot shape is "stretched foot" (toes each a bit shorter going lateral from the big toe, medium width foot) and does not have high arches. Her arches are rather low and has slight foot pronation when just standing barefoot. She is about 110lbs and maybe of just under 5' tall.
All her friends at her level are getting Edea Chorus. Edeas are the rave at her rink. However when she tried these on in her size, she hated them because her heel was sliding/slipping and there was no ankle support. The guy at the pro shop said he could pinch the heel (just above the heel) but this boot cannot be heat molded. He also said that the ankles are supposed to be loose in Edeas and the foot should be tight. However I thought ankle support is what you need for the higher level jumps.
The pro shop guy then recommended Riedell Stride, but others said do NOT get that, ...because its too low level? Also the attached blade (that you pay for) needs to be removed, holes plugged and an intermediate blade installed. Seems like a lot of effort and expense for questionable results.
So Risport was suggested by more experienced mom friend, who's skater used Electra light when she was at my daughter's level. However, I am reading alot of posts on here, that Risport is for high arches but also read somewhere they can be comfortable for people with flat or pronated feet. Can Risport still be good if you do not have high arches, but regular to low arches?
Any pro advice here? We are also trying to visit a fitter but its difficult to schedule availability, and my skater/student's hours.

Risport would be something you should look into, they aren't just for high arches (they fit all), they are just good for high arches which @gliese explained in her post so I won't repeat it.

You could also look at Riedell Flair as well as the Motion. Graf boots should fit her well too, if you need another brand option. If you need specifics you can PM me.

 

[MCsAngel2]

The description of her foot sounds like Riedell is the right brand for her. Another vote against Edea. I have no experience with Risport, but seems like everyone who tries them, likes them.

I also think you should look at the Riedell Flair. It's a boot only, you'll have to buy blades separately (and she should be getting the higher quality separate boots and blades at this point anyway). You can't go wrong with Coronation Ace or MK Professional.

 

[Sk8erMom3]

Risport is good for high arches because it has room for the arch to not have pressure on it. I have low arches and risport has been great. If Riedell has been working I'd recommend getting a higher level Riedell boot.

Would not recommend Edea.

Thanks for the info. Why do you not recommend Edea? Is it the loose ankles?

 

[Sk8erMom3]

The description of her foot sounds like Riedell is the right brand for her. Another vote against Edea. I have no experience with Risport, but seems like everyone who tries them, likes them.

I also think you should look at the Riedell Flair. It's a boot only, you'll have to buy blades separately (and she should be getting the higher quality separate boots and blades at this point anyway). You can't go wrong with Coronation Ace or MK Professional.

Why not Edea? Is it the lack of ankle support? Seems everyone is rushing to get them! My daughter doesn't feel secure in them.

 

[Arwen17]

Why not Edea? Is it the lack of ankle support? Seems everyone is rushing to get them! My daughter doesn't feel secure in them.

Several people in this forum seem to be extremely biased against Edea just because it's so popular and they hate that.

I don't think anyone feels secure in Edea from the start because of the loose ankles. Everyone has to build up ankle strength before they like them.

She should just try different skates and decide what she likes best. Edea is very popular and does work for a ton of people, despite the Edea-haters on this forum trying to downplay that fact. But you do want to get a skate that she likes and actually fits, so don't let Edea's popularity cloud sound decision-making.

I really wanted Edea, so I tried it out and after my ankles got stronger, I loved them. But if it hadn't worked out, I would have gone back to my old Jackson brand.

 

[gliese]

Several people in this forum seem to be extremely biased against Edea just because it's so popular and they hate that.

What we don't like is that it's so popular despite fitting a very rare foot type (narrow, limited difference in width, sloped toes, low arches, wide ankles, no pronation or supination). If you have that foot type, great. But most people don't and just get them because they're popular. This skater has pronation making Edea an immediate no-go.

 

[jalexandroff]

If she was wearing Riedell A/B regular width there’s a good chance she should have tried a B in Edea. Pinching in the heel never works long term - that’s what they used to suggest before Edea realized that maybe it’s not one width fits all. You can email Skates US and they will tell you that you must fit the heel first. If her heel is lifting now with a brand new pair, it will only get worse and then the boot will break down prematurely.

If the B doesn’t fit out of the box, she has a wider front, or her metatarsal has a tendency to spread when flat - you’ll need to shape the front of the boot and I’ve only seen a handful of techs that do this well. You might have ship them out to SkatesUS or drive to a different tech ($$$). Top level skaters in Edea are not popping them on out of the box - These Skaters are sponsored & have the boot shaped just for them.

If she pronates - depending on how much - she will likely need some sort of alternate insole because the one that comes with it is just a flat piece of foam. The new Edea insole they are hyping for $40 or $50 has no actual arch support that I can see. I’m not sold on it.

In the end it’s not my money that’s being spent. Good luck with whatever you chose.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Why not Edea? Is it the lack of ankle support? Seems everyone is rushing to get them! My daughter doesn't feel secure in them.

No, figure skating boots might look like they're all the same to most people, but each brand has minor differences in shape. Unlike street shoes, skating boots have to fit feet VERY VERY precisely and much more closely all over (which is why properly fitted boots are a size to a size and a half smaller than the skater's street shoe size). So it's important to get a professional fitting to assess ball/heel width difference, instep height, toe length, toe shape, and arch height, to get the recommendation of which brand will best fit that skater. Not every skater can wear every brand. You didn't describe your daughter's foot shape in terms of ball width relative to heel width (are they the same width, is the heel one width narrower, 2 widths narrower, etc), but the tapered toes and low arch definitely fit the Riedell shape.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

No, figure skating boots might look like they're all the same to most people, but each brand has minor differences in shape. Unlike street shoes, skating boots have to fit feet VERY VERY precisely and much more closely all over (which is why properly fitted boots are a size to a size and a half smaller than the skater's street shoe size). So it's important to get a professional fitting to assess ball/heel width difference, instep height, toe length, toe shape, and arch height, to get the recommendation of which brand will best fit that skater. Not every skater can wear every brand. You didn't describe your daughter's foot shape in terms of ball width relative to heel width (are they the same width, is the heel one width narrower, 2 widths narrower, etc), but the tapered toes and low arch definitely fit the Riedell shape.

What we don't like is that it's so popular despite fitting a very rare foot type (narrow, limited difference in width, sloped toes, low arches, wide ankles, no pronation or supination). If you have that foot type, great. But most people don't and just get them because they're popular. This skater has pronation making Edea an immediate no-go.

All of this and more. I suggest skates based on each skater and decades of experience, I personally don't just say go throw on an edea yeah that's ok...even if it won't fit your skater and I know it won't. And despite what some here are saying, edea have nothing to do with ankle strength solely no matter how much they've oddly convinced themselves that it's the reason they fit them so wonderfully now. It's no secret with skaters that this applies to all skates/brands with any decent stiffness rating. I suggest the skate brands that will fit a skater based on their own personal feet, and have those I've helped come back here after fittings and thank me endlessly for saving them a headache and lots of money. It has nothing to do with what skates I like or fit me. I will suggest an edea or riedell if that is what will fit that person the best. Also, I've been pretty much the only one suggesting Graf for some. Also, Golden Horse for those in Asian countries that don't have much access to fitters and skate shops (as those are the skate most easily obtainable there especially for beginners).

 

[Sk8erMom3]

Thanks everyone for all the wonderful advice. My skater has only mild pronation, and yes, there is spreading of the metatarsals a little bit when standing flat. The foot doesn't turn inwards, but the arch drops a bit and the toes spread apart, but with Riedell, all the toes (metatarsals) are help together tighly and over the blade.
I have no idea how to calculate or measure the heel width to ball width ratios. Is there a link with that information? And I am not sure if she has thick ankles but definately not thin ankles, as she is a little on the "big bone" side.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks everyone for all the wonderful advice. My skater has only mild pronation, and yes, there is spreading of the metatarsals a little bit when standing flat. The foot doesn't turn inwards, but the arch drops a bit and the toes spread apart, but with Riedell, all the toes (metatarsals) are help together tighly and over the blade.
I have no idea how to calculate or measure the heel width to ball width ratios. Is there a link with that information? And I am not sure if she has thick ankles but definately not thin ankles, as she is a little on the "big bone" side.

Again, please just let the fitter measure her and trace her foot. As far as the bone in her ankle: A good ankle punch out should help.

 

[Arwen17]

What we don't like is that it's so popular despite fitting a very rare foot type (narrow, limited difference in width, sloped toes, low arches, wide ankles, no pronation or supination). If you have that foot type, great. But most people don't and just get them because they're popular. This skater has pronation making Edea an immediate no-go.

*rolls eyes* Guess my rink and all rinks I visit is full of skaters with "rare" feet. It seriously isn't that rare. WHY? Because most skaters get the boots heat-molded to the way they want it. Most of us don't fit Edea perfectly out of the box. And a lot of us also wear arch supports underneath the foot insert. Problem solved.
As for pronation etc, while I don't think that problem is uncommon in general, I still know far more skaters that are just like me, they don't have any pronation etc. Most skaters I know fit several different brands just fine. Again, most of that is because of heat-molding and arch supports. Only a few skaters had to really search because only ONE brand worked for them, whether it's Edea or Jackson or something else.

If heat-molding and arch supports were not allowed, most skaters would not fit in any brand of skates very well.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I've tried Edea and know why I, personally, don't like them, ie the pointy shape and the bagginess around the ankle that I feel isn't really particularly safe. That's just my personal view on the fit and feel.

What I don't like about Edea in general, is the fact that I have more skaters with problems in Edea (regardless of level/model) than any other brand. When I take them for an expert fitting, it's interesting to note that none of them have gone with the Edea option if they've been offered one as a potential fit. The ones who bought Edea because they fell "in love" (mainly Ice Fly, but also a couple of Pianos) have all had major problems, and either had to waste a lot of time "getting used to them" or wrote off a considerable investment. There are a couple who have doggedly struggled on, still claiming that they are "the best boots ever" but I'm afraid their skating has told a different tale. NB: There are no elite skaters in the above groups. We have one former Elite at our rink. She wears Ice Fly, but they fit her feet and she most certainly meets the "triples" rating criteria!

I also dislike the "you can't overboot in Edea" theory, because you most certainly can. I see far too many skaters either losing ground through having too stiff/advanced boots and basically being taken for a very expensive ride by that - admittedly brilliant, albeit unethical - marketing ploy or being in danger of permanent injury as the boots are just totally unsuitable for their feet or physique.

I'm long enough in the tooth not to be swayed by hype but to make a decision based on experience and what I see in my skaters.

 

[Arwen17]

And see my experience has been the exact opposite. I know tons of skaters in Edea from LTS to double axel who love them and switched to them from other brands. I'm not claiming they're the greatest boot ever because I think most people fit in several brands of boots and would have very similar results if not exactly the same. But this idea that it's "rare" for Edea to work for people is absurd. If that were the case, the competitions where doubles and triples are performed wouldn't be filled with Edea boots. They would all go get another boot if it didn't work out. It's successful marketing and the fact that they do work for a large number of people that makes them popular. That doesn't make them the greatest boot ever or whatever, but it does mean they DO work for plenty of people, it's not "rare" for them to work out.

I think it's hard to overboot in Edea unless you're someone with no jumps above a single loop and you're trying to wear Ice Fly (or similar), OR you're very, very lightweight child and are trying to wear Ice Fly etc. Anyone with enough body weight and all of their singles up to lutz is usually just fine in Ice Fly etc.
People still in Basic Skills or Freestyle 1-3 or very, very lightweight skaters need to wait to get heavier and higher level before trying Ice Fly because they have so little ability to exert enough force.

 

[gliese]

If that were the case, the competitions where doubles and triples are performed wouldn't be filled with Edea boots.

Logical fallacy asf.

Edea sponsors tons of skaters pretty much as soon as they land their triples. I'd 100% take the sponsorship and switch brands...

 

[2sk8]

I would echo the suggestions to get properly measured and not just opt for a brand because it is popular at a rink or otherwise. Some of the models you initially mentioned seem a bit too low level for ISI 5 and working on Axel. In Graf, for that age and level I would suggest Caprice or Prestige. Both are available with or without blades. Feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[Arwen17]

Logical fallacy asf.

Edea sponsors tons of skaters pretty much as soon as they land their triples. I'd 100% take the sponsorship and switch brands...

Then you have to ask why Jackson or any other brand doesn't do this and just lets Edea take over the market.

Your logical fallacy is you fail to realize this is just further proof that Edea works for most skaters. If they could not get these skates to work for them, they would have to go back to their old models. But from what I see at most rinks nowadays is people are starting out in Edea. They are not joining Edea later.
I repeat what I already said: "Most skaters I know fit several different brands just fine."
I'll say it over and over again. It is not "rare" for Edea to work for most people. Edea's selling point is they are extremely heat-moldable to make them work for most feet. And now that Edea is no longer a "new" brand, lots of skaters are starting out in Edea and not switching later.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

People often start out in skates that are unsuitable for them as they don't know any better. They usually buy what they see is most widely used and available. If Edea suit you, then fine. If you have to work and suffer to make them "suit" you, then... But it's mostly the "you can't overboot" thing that I hate, along with the bagginess around the ankles. So many skaters in expensive boots that they don't need and which can hamper their skating in ways that a correctly fitted and appropriate level boot wouldn't. But they tend to be the ones who argue for their Ice Flies/Pianos the loudest and longest. And as somebody said here a while back, "You argue for those restrictions, you get to keep them".

In answer to the OP, who asked "why not Edea?", if your daughter doesn't like the feel of them, there's really no point in putting her in them.