Boot size vs. foot size

[christy]

I posted recently about my problems with Auras, where they told me they made one boot more than 15mm bigger than my foot, and the other boot 12mm bigger. They told me that a competition fit was 5-8mm bigger but for adults and coaches they made boots 10-15mm bigger. That seems excessively big to me so I've been researching, and was just reading about someone whose boots were made 10mm bigger and they got Haglunds because their heels slipped constantly. I'm guessing such a large margin would affect where your foot is in relation to the blade, and the control you have. Is that correct?

I've read loads of posts over the years from people who've bought skates based on street shoe size or because they were comfortable, only to find that they are actually too big. Also I know that people buy childrens boots a little bit larger to allow for their feet growing so rapidly.

I would really like to understand how much bigger skates should be compared to foot size. Is there a minimum allowance, and what is the maximum before major foot issues start to arise? Thanks

 

[Elija]

I don’t know about other brands as have primarily worn edea for years, but they do not recommend more than an absolute maximum of 5mm bigger than your foot length for the length of the boot for adults since they aren’t growing - seems the opposite of what aura are saying. For children who are growing it’s a max 1cm.

 

[tstop4me]

I posted recently about my problems with Auras, where they told me they made one boot more than 15mm bigger than my foot, and the other boot 12mm bigger. They told me that a competition fit was 5-8mm bigger but for adults and coaches they made boots 10-15mm bigger. That seems excessively big to me so I've been researching, and was just reading about someone whose boots were made 10mm bigger and they got Haglunds because their heels slipped constantly. I'm guessing such a large margin would affect where your foot is in relation to the blade, and the control you have. Is that correct?

I've read loads of posts over the years from people who've bought skates based on street shoe size or because they were comfortable, only to find that they are actually too big. Also I know that people buy childrens boots a little bit larger to allow for their feet growing so rapidly.

I would really like to understand how much bigger skates should be compared to foot size. Is there a minimum allowance, and what is the maximum before major foot issues start to arise? Thanks

* A single measurement (length) is insufficient to characterize the proper fit between a complex 3D geometry foot and a complex 3D geometry boot.

* For example, if a skater's heel slips, is it because (a) the boot is too long, (b) the heel is too wide, (c) the tongue doesn't seat the foot properly, (d) some other reason, or (e) a combination of two or more of the above?

* As another example, my heel is narrow relative to my ball. When I was first fitted into a Riedell Royal many moons ago (before Jackson existed), the closest size in a stock boot was a 9N. I needed the N width to get a snug fit for my heel and a 9 length to avoid squishing my toes, since the Riedell had a narrow, low, and pointed toebox. I currently skate in a Jackson Elite (previous generation leather model), size 8W. This particular boot came stock split width, with the heel one width narrower than the ball. The narrower width heel gives me a snug fit for my heel, and the 8 length doesn't squish my toes, since the toebox is much wider, higher, and more rounded than that of the Riedell. FWIW I usually take a 9D in street shoes.

* Besides the geometry of the boot, the construction materials also affect the proper size. E.g., my model Jackson is lined with memory foam, which is expected to compress somewhat during break-in. The Jackson fitting guidelines [assuming a relatively normal foot, if such a thing exists ] at the time called for (a) no clearance for a "competition" fit (that is, your toes would lightly brush the inside of the boot when brand new) and (b) maybe about 1/8" (about 3 mm) [if I remember correctly] clearance for a "comfortable" fit [I don't remember exactly what the terms and values were, and I can't find those guidelines on their current website]. Even taking into account the various complexities, the Aura guidelines seem wacko to me. Besides, they shouldn't assume certain skaters automatically want a sloppy fit; they should ask the individual skater (after all, isn't that the whole point of a custom fit?).

 

[christy]

Thank you for the information. I thought it was around 5mm for Edea, but haven't been able to find details for other brands. I would love to know the recommendations for Jackson and Risport.
I fully understand your explanation about extra length to compensate for a narrower boot, but with proper custom boots I'd assume there is no need to compensate / compromise?

This is what Aura said
"A typical variance for a High-Performance skater is 8mm in length, and 2-4 mm in width. This would be considered a snug fit.
Adult skaters/ and coaches typically enjoy more variance in their skate, and consider a snug fit at 10-15 mm.
This variance (of 15.5mm on my skates) is what would be considered on the larger end in comparison to the other builds we do"

 

[tstop4me]

I fully understand your explanation about extra length to compensate for a narrower boot, but with proper custom boots I'd assume there is no need to compensate / compromise?

<<Emphasis added.>> That is correct. That's the whole point of custom!

I would love to know the recommendations for Jackson and ...

I guess you missed the info I gave above on Jackson. Here it is again (bolded):

* Besides the geometry of the boot, the construction materials also affect the proper size. E.g., my model Jackson is lined with memory foam, which is expected to compress somewhat during break-in. The Jackson fitting guidelines [assuming a relatively normal foot, if such a thing exists ] at the time called for (a) no clearance for a "competition" fit (that is, your toes would lightly brush the inside of the boot when brand new) and (b) maybe about 1/8" (about 3 mm) [if I remember correctly] clearance for a "comfortable" fit [I don't remember exactly what the terms and values were, and I can't find those guidelines on their current website]. Even taking into account the various complexities, the Aura guidelines seem wacko to me. Besides, they shouldn't assume certain skaters automatically want a sloppy fit; they should ask the individual skater (after all, isn't that the whole point of a custom fit?).

<<Emphasis added.>>

 

[christy]

<<Emphasis added.>> That is correct. That's the whole point of custom!


I guess you missed the info I gave above on Jackson. Here it is again (bolded):


<<Emphasis added.>>

Oh, I'm so sorry. I did read that but for some reason I didn't register the Jackson bit, despite it being mentioned more than once!

So off the shelf stock Edea are 5mm for most with a possible 10mm for children to allow for growth, off the shelf stock Jackson (and likely Gam) are 3mm, and supposed custom Aura reckon 10-15mm for adults. As you say, a bit wacko!
Any idea about Riedell, Risport, Wifa?

 

[tstop4me]

Oh, I'm so sorry. I did read that but for some reason I didn't register the Jackson bit, despite it being mentioned more than once!

So off the shelf stock Edea are 5mm for most with a possible 10mm for children to allow for growth, off the shelf stock Jackson (and likely Gam) are 3mm, and supposed custom Aura reckon 10-15mm for adults. As you say, a bit wacko!
Any idea about Riedell, Risport, Wifa?

You might find this overview helpful for general background reference. Actual fitting should of course be left to a competent tech. Kinzie's Closet has compiled information for major boot manufacturers. See https://www.kinziescloset.com/home.html. Move your cursor to the tab "Figure Skates". On the pop-up menu, there will be sizing charts for various brands. The link for Harlick is broken. Edea and Risport have specific guidelines; you can check those out for yourself. For Jackson, Graf, Riedell, and SP-Teri, the guidelines read the same. I've consolidated them here; <<...>> indicate my edits:

"<<Jackson, Graf, Riedell, SP-Teri>> sizes their figure skates for a snug and competitive fit. This means that the toe will be slightly touching the inside of the boot. The <<Jackson, Graf, Riedell, SP-Teri>> Skate Sizing Charts have been calibrated for a competitive fit and the sizing reflects the insole length. Some people do not like this type of fit. Children will also need a little extra room for growth. If you do not like this type of fit or need a little growth room, then go a half size up.

Please note: We <<Kinzie’s Closet>> do not recommend figure skate sizes that are larger than 1/4" <<about 6 mm>> longer than your foot length measurements. Figure skates that are too large can cause early break down and will not support the ankles and feet correctly."


My Note: Given how different the guidelines for Edea and Risport are relative to other manufacturers, we can't really make any conclusions about Aura's guidelines. My guess is that it has to do with how much the uppers overhang the insole.

 

[christy]

You might find this overview helpful for general background reference. Actual fitting should of course be left to a competent tech. Kinzie's Closet has compiled information for major boot manufacturers. See https://www.kinziescloset.com/home.html. Move your cursor to the tab "Figure Skates". On the pop-up menu, there will be sizing charts for various brands. The link for Harlick is broken. Edea and Risport have specific guidelines; you can check those out for yourself. For Jackson, Graf, Riedell, and SP-Teri, the guidelines read the same. I've consolidated them here; <<...>> indicate my edits:

"<<Jackson, Graf, Riedell, SP-Teri>> sizes their figure skates for a snug and competitive fit. This means that the toe will be slightly touching the inside of the boot. The <<Jackson, Graf, Riedell, SP-Teri>> Skate Sizing Charts have been calibrated for a competitive fit and the sizing reflects the insole length. Some people do not like this type of fit. Children will also need a little extra room for growth. If you do not like this type of fit or need a little growth room, then go a half size up.

Please note: We <<Kinzie’s Closet>> do not recommend figure skate sizes that are larger than 1/4" <<about 6 mm>> longer than your foot length measurements. Figure skates that are too large can cause early break down and will not support the ankles and feet correctly."


My Note: Given how different the guidelines for Edea and Risport are relative to other manufacturers, we can't really make any conclusions about Aura's guidelines. My guess is that it has to do with how much the uppers overhang the insole.

From what I read it seems like most of the manufacturers are saying toes should be touching the boot if you want a competitive fit, but a half size larger is ok. According to google a half size difference is 3mm, so Kinzies are saying boots should never be more than a full size / 6mm bigger than the foot measurement, and that's in line with the Edea guidelines too.