Canada might not compete at world figure skating championships — if they happen

drivingmissdaisy

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Feb 17, 2010
The issue with that is that it is unfair to the lower-ranked skaters who may then miss out on an Olympic spot altogether if big feds are allowed to pick their best result.

Remember, there are only 30 spots in singles, and even less in pairs and dance.

In practice, I don't think it would have a big impact. For Ladies, KAZ and CAN might be overrepresented if 2019 results are used, but Russia and Japan would likely get three again in 2021, US and South Korea probably two also. So that's maybe three extra spots (assuming KAZ can even send three skaters with minimum scores), but the benefit is that it's a somewhat fair compromise given the unprecedented circumstances. It's pretty clear that this is going to be a rough season anyway, given how shaky a lot of last season's top skaters have looked after the extended break.
 

4everchan

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The issue with that is that it is unfair to the lower-ranked skaters who may then miss out on an Olympic spot altogether if big feds are allowed to pick their best result.

Remember, there are only 30 spots in singles, and even less in pairs and dance.
who says they would limit to 30 spots in singles etc...? if they adjust the rules not to penalize countries not participating at worlds, they will adjust the number of entries accordingly. These rulings are looked with a lot of scrutiny and wouldn't be taken lightly... They will not penalize one group so that another group doesn't get penalized... they will find a suitable arrangement.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Feb 27, 2012
... Remember, there are only 30 spots in singles, and even less in pairs and dance.

And the ISU would need to get permission from the IOC to increase the number of figure skating spots for 2022 OWG.
I am not optimistic that the IOC would give its permission.

It would be a slippery slope for the IOC to permit an increase in spots for one sport, because then any other sport -- also dealing with pandemic troubles -- justifiably could demand an increase too.

I do not think the pandemic would change the IOC's previous interest in limiting/reducing the overall head count of athletes.

The quota of Olympic ice dance couples for 2022 already was reduced to 23 (from a quota of 24 in 2018).
And the quota of pairs was reduced to 19 (from a quota of 20 in 2018).
Thus the total quota for figure skating was reduced to 144 athletes in 2022 (from a quota of 148 in 2018).

No matter what, if the ISU modifies its previously announced qualification procedures for 2022 OWG, it will have to walk a tightrope to try to be fair to all federations.
 
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NanaPat

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Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
The issue with that is that it is unfair to the lower-ranked skaters who may then miss out on an Olympic spot altogether if big feds are allowed to pick their best result.

Remember, there are only 30 spots in singles, and even less in pairs and dance.
But they did make a change after 2018 that could potentially reduce the big-country spots a bit. The number of automatic "multiple" entries is now limited to then number of skaters who made the free skate at worlds, though they can duke it out at Nebelhorn with the small feds to get back one entry lost under this rule.
 

removof

On the Ice
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Jan 11, 2014
If we should wait the end of Covid19 for organize figure skating tournament we wait seceral decades.

All sports find solutions. With this decision the canadians figure skater are blocked in their career.
 

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
If we should wait the end of Covid19 for organize figure skating tournament we wait seceral decades.

All sports find solutions. With this decision the canadians figure skater are blocked in their career.
there is no decision made as of now... it's a possibility explored by Skate Canada says the article... or a way to pressure the ISU by saying they won't go.
 

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
some more info about vaccines for some saying that Canada is not producing its own and will be late receiving vaccines... well, accordingly to this article, the president of Moderna, one of the pharmaceutical companies close to get an approval for a vaccine, Canada was one of the first countries to place an order of 20 Million doses... and will receive part of the first lot of produced vaccines... if you can read French, it's all explained here... Trudeau was really quick in ordering millions and millions of doses, way past the number of Canadians.... his argument, besides trying to make Canadian safe, was that if Canada does have more than enough, it will help countries who do not have the means to buy vaccines, as this pandemic will not get solved until the whole world has access to vaccines.
 

nussnacker

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Mar 16, 2019
So what? Use last season's rankings and ignore those who worked so hard to improve and qualify for this season?
yes
I applaud those who worked hard, but their hard work is not being ignored if spots are assigned using last season's rankings.
I don't think assignment of spots is a reward for someone's hard work at all. Their hard work would be rewarded by world titles and placements.
In an individual sport I doubt athletes do really care if their teammates will get to go, do they? It's what their federations care for the most, not athletes themselves.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
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Jun 6, 2019
yes
I applaud those who worked hard, but their hard work is not being ignored if spots are assigned using last season's rankings.
I don't think assignment of spots is a reward for someone's hard work at all. Their hard work would be rewarded by world titles and placements.
In an individual sport I doubt athletes do really care if their teammates will get to go, do they? It's what their federations care for the most, not athletes themselves.
What about skaters like Daniel grassl who haven't qualified for Olympics? Or skaters who fell out of the top 24 at worlds but have a good chance of qualifying for Olympics (PJ Hallam, Graham Newbury?)

The last world championships was in 2019. A lot has changed since then! 2 years is enough for some skaters to learn all quads.... It's not something to scoff at. Should we go ahead and totally destroy those skaters careers if they are willing to take the risk and compete.
The only other thing is to give every country 3 spots and let them do it nationally. But to go based on 2019 rankings is the worst idea ever.
 

Orchidea

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Sep 1, 2020
As much I read that news I understood that the problem is not quarantine or traveling but honest fact that Canadian athletes are not ready to compete in high level...and I must agree specially in ladies field.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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What about skaters like Daniel grassl who haven't qualified for Olympics? Or skaters who fell out of the top 24 at worlds but have a good chance of qualifying for Olympics (PJ Hallam, Graham Newbury?)

The last world championships was in 2019. A lot has changed since then! 2 years is enough for some skaters to learn all quads.... It's not something to scoff at. Should we go ahead and totally destroy those skaters careers if they are willing to take the risk and compete.
The only other thing is to give every country 3 spots and let them do it nationally. But to go based on 2019 rankings is the worst idea ever.
If we're talking about number of spots, a lot of things can change even within a year, so it doesn't actually make a difference.
I would say, in pre-olympic season, worlds still don't help to objectively assign number of spots, leaving stronger athletes without Olympic spots.
Gabby and Kaetlyn earned Canada 3 spots for Olympics, and Japan only had 2, but I would say Japan actually deserved 3 instead of Canada, just because their ladies skaters were stronger in the Olympic year, but unfortunately weaker in the pre-Olympic worlds. Hence, it came to a situation, where Larkyn went to compete at Olympics (with a performance in short not qualifying her for FS), but someone like Wakaba or Mai, who are arguably much stronger skaters, couldn't. You tell me, was it fair to Wakaba or Mai?
But that's what it came down to.

If we're talking about minumums and SB, those can be earned in the Olympic season OR skaters should be allowed to earn them at Worlds this season, why not? Spots are a different conversation to me.

Besides, I'm not even sure what mentioning PJ Hallam or Graham Newbury was supposed to achieve here. That they were going to earn 2 spots for UK? mmmm... not sure I think it is or was possible.
Italy conveniently has 2 spots right now, you think Matteo and Daniel would manage to earn 3 had the worlds been deciding the number of spots this or last season? Something tells me, hanging on to those 2 might be quite difficult too. So I don't see a problem with it for Italy, in fact it would be to their benefit if spots aren't decided on worlds 2021.
 

kolyadafan2002

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If we're talking about number of spots, a lot of things can change even within a year, so it doesn't actually make a difference.
I would say, in pre-olympic season, worlds still don't help to objectively assign number of spots, leaving stronger athletes without Olympic spots.
Gabby and Kaetlyn earned Canada 3 spots for Olympics, and Japan only had 2, but I would say Japan actually deserved 3 instead of Canada, just because their ladies skaters were stronger in the Olympic year, but unfortunately weaker in the pre-Olympic worlds. Hence, it came to a situation, where Larkyn went to compete at Olympics (with a performance in short not qualifying her for FS), but someone like Wakaba or Mai, who are arguably much stronger skaters, couldn't. You tell me, was it fair to Wakaba or Mai?
But that's what it came down to.

If we're talking about minumums and SB, those can be earned in the Olympic season OR skaters should be allowed to earn them at Worlds this season, why not? Spots are a different conversation to me.

Besides, I'm not even sure what mentioning PJ Hallam or Graham Newbury was supposed to achieve here. That they were going to earn 2 spots for UK? mmmm... not sure I think it is or was possible.
Italy conveniently has 2 spots right now, you think Matteo and Daniel would manage to earn 3 had the worlds been deciding the number of spots this or last season? Something tells me, hanging on to those 2 might be quite difficult too. So I don't see a problem with it for Italy, in fact it would be to their benefit if spots aren't decided on worlds 2021.
No, the point is either of them could have earned one spot for the UK. Instead the UK has 0 spots.
Daniel Grassl didn't do any of the Olympic qualifiers in 2019, nor did he do world's so he didn't have any Olympics qualifications.
 

4everchan

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Mar 7, 2015
i think we need to move on about the what ifs ..
1) we don't know yet if there will be worlds
2) if there are worlds, we don't know yet, which countries will go/not go
3) we don't know yet how ISU will decide on national quotas...
 

Cutting the ice

Spectator
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
To attempt to stick to "knowns", Sweden continues to update its list of countries from which non-essential travellers are banned from entry. As of today, EEA/EU countries can go plus travellers from the UK, Australia, Japan, S Korea but not China, Russia, Canada or the USA (to name the bigger skating countries). Exemptions to the non-essential travel ban does not include atheletes in competition, although this is listed on the Swedish Police site "Participants or necessary support staff in international professional athletic events". So weird. I would trust the government site firstly - it seems more complete and up to date.
Given the current COVID-19 situation, I would expect that this ban will continue beyond Dec 22. It is an odd ban, given that COVID-19 infection rates in many of the countries from where non-essential travel is allowed, are higher than Canada's is today. But that may change, either to get worse or better - that is up to us as individuals how well be contribute to getting that R-value below one.
 

ribbit

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Nov 9, 2014
What about skaters like Daniel grassl who haven't qualified for Olympics? Or skaters who fell out of the top 24 at worlds but have a good chance of qualifying for Olympics (PJ Hallam, Graham Newbury?)

The last world championships was in 2019. A lot has changed since then! 2 years is enough for some skaters to learn all quads.... It's not something to scoff at. Should we go ahead and totally destroy those skaters careers if they are willing to take the risk and compete.
The only other thing is to give every country 3 spots and let them do it nationally. But to go based on 2019 rankings is the worst idea ever.
Kolyadafan2002, I think you might be thinking of GP qualification, which does involve individual skaters earning their spots through their previous season's results. But Olympic/World spots are awarded in the first instance to countries, not to individuals. For the Olympics, the preceding Nebelhorn Trophy provides one final opportunity for countries to earn one additional spot per discipline. The countries then decide through internal competitions (or politics) which athletes will fill those spots. So if Italy has two men's spots, and Daniel Grassl earns a spot through the Italian fed's internal qualification process and meets the minimum TES requirement, he'll go. He doesn't have to earn an Olympic spot on his own; in fact, he can't.

Where individual skaters will suffer is if it's still impossible next fall/winter to organize competitions safely so that skaters can meet the minimum TES requirement before the Olympics. But that TES doesn't usually have to be earned until a month or two before the Olympics. If a vaccine becomes available in the spring/summer and international competition resumes in the fall/winter, skaters should have opportunities to earn the minimum TES. Personally, I'd rather see them preserve their health until a vaccine arrives and be ready to seize those opportunities next year. As @4everchan has pointed out, there are some worrying studies showing that healthy athletes with no co-morbidities and few symptoms have developed serious heart and lung conditions as a result of contracting Covid-19. Hopefully their bodies will recover and those conditions will gradually go away, but this disease is too new--we just don't know enough yet about its long-term impact on the body to be confident that an athlete who takes a risk and gets sick now will be able to recover and return to training in time for the Olympics.
 

Xorasy

Rinkside
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Feb 23, 2014
To attempt to stick to "knowns", Sweden continues to update its list of countries from which non-essential travellers are banned from entry. As of today, EEA/EU countries can go plus travellers from the UK, Australia, Japan, S Korea but not China, Russia, Canada or the USA (to name the bigger skating countries). Exemptions to the non-essential travel ban does not include atheletes in competition, although this is listed on the Swedish Police site "Participants or necessary support staff in international professional athletic events". So weird. I would trust the government site firstly - it seems more complete and up to date.
Given the current COVID-19 situation, I would expect that this ban will continue beyond Dec 22. It is an odd ban, given that COVID-19 infection rates in many of the countries from where non-essential travel is allowed, are higher than Canada's is today. But that may change, either to get worse or better - that is up to us as individuals how well be contribute to getting that R-value below one.
As far as I know the Swedish government wants to make exemptions for athletes, at least that what they said last month, The government proposes an exemption from the entry ban for elite athletes. I think one problem might be that this ban is on an EU-level, and not something that Sweden has decided on their own. But I'm not sure how this exemption works on a national level, and if it has been implemented yet, since this was over a month ago.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
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Jun 6, 2019
Kolyadafan2002, I think you might be thinking of GP qualification, which does involve individual skaters earning their spots through their previous season's results. But Olympic/World spots are awarded in the first instance to countries, not to individuals. For the Olympics, the preceding Nebelhorn Trophy provides one final opportunity for countries to earn one additional spot per discipline. The countries then decide through internal competitions (or politics) which athletes will fill those spots. So if Italy has two men's spots, and Daniel Grassl earns a spot through the Italian fed's internal qualification process and meets the minimum TES requirement, he'll go. He doesn't have to earn an Olympic spot on his own; in fact, he can't.

Where individual skaters will suffer is if it's still impossible next fall/winter to organize competitions safely so that skaters can meet the minimum TES requirement before the Olympics. But that TES doesn't usually have to be earned until a month or two before the Olympics. If a vaccine becomes available in the spring/summer and international competition resumes in the fall/winter, skaters should have opportunities to earn the minimum TES. Personally, I'd rather see them preserve their health until a vaccine arrives and be ready to seize those opportunities next year. As @4everchan has pointed out, there are some worrying studies showing that healthy athletes with no co-morbidities and few symptoms have developed serious heart and lung conditions as a result of contracting Covid-19. Hopefully their bodies will recover and those conditions will gradually go away, but this disease is too new--we just don't know enough yet about its long-term impact on the body to be confident that an athlete who takes a risk and gets sick now will be able to recover and return to training in time for the Olympics.
I'm not saying world's should go on, or people should be required to go to world's - what I'm saying that they shouldn't go on 2019 rankings. Best thing is to give max spots to every single country, or gives 2019 spots and allow additional ones to be earnt by participants who choose to go.
 

Cutting the ice

Spectator
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
As far as I know the Swedish government wants to make exemptions for athletes, at least that what they said last month, The government proposes an exemption from the entry ban for elite athletes. I think one problem might be that this ban is on an EU-level, and not something that Sweden has decided on their own. But I'm not sure how this exemption works on a national level, and if it has been implemented yet, since this was over a month ago.
Thank you. Perhaps that explains the discrepency in the excemptions between the two sites. So the "known" is not really a "known" :confused:
 

Xorasy

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Thank you. Perhaps that explains the discrepency in the excemptions between the two sites. So the "known" is not really a "known" :confused:
Yes I'd say it's a bit unclear at the moment 😅. But at least it is a good sign for the championships, since the government wants this exemption and they want to be able to host international competitions. (Well it's a good sign for those who want the competition to happen at least)
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
I'm not saying world's should go on, or people should be required to go to world's - what I'm saying that they shouldn't go on 2019 rankings. Best thing is to give max spots to every single country, or gives 2019 spots and allow additional ones to be earnt by participants who choose to go.

I don't think giving max spots to every single country is the best idea - given the "pandemic" the ISU and local organizers would probably be more interested in having the lowest number of attendees as possible.

I kinda think given how there's not been a ton of competitions for most skaters that perhaps a good option would be for the ISU to say this is 2019 Worlds 1 year late and the event is made up of everyone that was scheduled to go to Worlds in 2019 makes up the competition for 2020. Give those skaters a chance to go to the Worlds that got cancelled on them...just a thought, the ISU is in a tough spot on how to handle the event given the situation.
 
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