Elizaveta Zhuk & Martin Bidar

hanca

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SP of Liza & Martin from Middle artlantic figure skating championship in New York :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OIglMkxOk4

Struggles with jumps, but can happen. Twist was nice! Nice music choice for young pair! Looking forward to free.
Martin could have skated with Osipova, and yet he didn’t want to wait for her to be released so he chose Abrazhevich and a year later Zhuk. For comparison, Osipova is in her new partnership with Bushlanov roughly the same length of time as Bidar with Zhuk, and yet the difference in skating is huge. I think he made a mistake with letting Osipova go. There is a saying about someone who is too picky “Kdo příliš vybírá, přebere.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV0RbHSl2as
 

coldblueeyes

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Martin could have skated with Osipova, and yet he didn’t want to wait for her to be released so he chose Abrazhevich and a year later Zhuk. For comparison, Osipova is in her new partnership with Bushlanov roughly the same length of time as Bidar with Zhuk, and yet the difference in skating is huge. I think he made a mistake with letting Osipova go. There is a saying about someone who is too picky “Kdo příliš vybírá, přebere.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV0RbHSl2as

What do you get out of this kind of insertion into his FF? Did he offend you personally or something?

:rolleye:

Be a bit better.
 

hanca

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What do you get out of this kind of insertion into his FF? Did he offend you personally or something?

:rolleye:

Be a bit better.

There was a discussion whether Zhuk is better than Osipova. Whether he upgraded or downgraded. Having a recent video of Zhuk’s performance and Osipova’s performance allows for a pretty good comparison. There are not many decent non Russian pairs in Europe. It would have been nice if Czechia had one good pair. I am expressing my opinion that maybe Bidar’s choice was not the best one. I am really sorry that you don’t agree, but different people have different opinions and watching those two videos, it is pretty easy to choose who I would want his partner to be. And that’s not because I have anything against him, but because I want the best results for him! I don’t hate him, I want Czechia to have a strong pair!

Not sure what ‘be better’ has got to do with it. :rolleye:
 

coldblueeyes

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Where is the discussion? Because Osipova was literally mentioned twice in the entire thread, and mostly to say that she wasn't released. Martin didn't really have a lot to choose from, and it's pretty clear he didn't want to spend an entire season doing nothing. He went out there and competed with Hanna, maybe it didn't work out, I'm not with them on the ice with them to know the reasons. Now he's trying out with someone else, maybe this time Liza will be released, otherwise, he's relegated to searching for another partner that might not be the best for him. It's what he has going for himself.

On another note, if you've gone back to read your own posts regarding Martin all over GS, you might know what I was talking about when I told you to be better. But you do you.
 

hanca

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Quite honestly, I think you should be better. A bit of acceptance of diversity and the fact that people can have different opinions without being the public enemy number one wouldn’t hurt. What is being fan? Is it praising everything the skater does, regardless whether one believes it is great or not, or is it crossing fingers and hoping for success? I am not a person who will be gushing about something being great when it is not. If I think a skater made mistake, I have no problems of saying it. That does not mean that I hate the person, or that I wish them to fail. Quite on the contrary; I say it because I care. I do believe I am a fan, because I do cross the fingers and hope for the best. If I go to an event where the skaters compete, I would loudly support them. But I am not looking at everything through rose coloured glasses and I am not willing to be lying to myself.
 

gabriele

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Quite honestly, I think you should be better. A bit of acceptance of diversity and the fact that people can have different opinions without being the public enemy number one wouldn’t hurt. What is being fan? Is it praising everything the skater does, regardless whether one believes it is great or not, or is it crossing fingers and hoping for success? I am not a person who will be gushing about something being great when it is not. If I think a skater made mistake, I have no problems of saying it. That does not mean that I hate the person, or that I wish them to fail. Quite on the contrary; I say it because I care. I do believe I am a fan, because I do cross the fingers and hope for the best. If I go to an event where the skaters compete, I would loudly support them. But I am not looking at everything through rose coloured glasses and I am not willing to be lying to myself.

The issue is that you are posting this in Zhuk/Bidar's fan fest where we are supportive of Bidar and Zhuk.
 

paji15

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Ok Hanci. It’s totally ok to have an opinion and fan can criticize his favorite too. Point is, we barely saw you say anything at least neutral about him, but criticize him like he personaly hurt you and he is completelly bad guy. So I totally get gabriele’s point. To be honest, until your last tweet, I though you are talking about him just because he’s your countrymen and you don’t like him, just blame him for split with Anna because she is your favorite. Sorry I made a wrong judgement, but it really sound like that to me.

You like to criticize, we prefer to see positive thing, so lets say it by facts.

1. Martin and his team wanted him to skate. Totally understanable. Osipova was not released, so they tried another girls. Turned out it was a problem. Hanna text them, their partnership didn’t work out. They find a girl with big potencial (Liza) and are trying to make it work, hopefully, they will wait if necesarry. Their steps are totally logical. Nothing about picking too much.

2. We never saw Martin and Nika skate together. Hard to judge their common potencial. They could wait a year and find out it was not worthy too. We have no idea.

3. On contrary, we saw much different personal interaction between Martin and Nika/Liza. With Liza, they are publically friendly since day one. Personal part of the relarionship is very important too.

4. We saw one quite messy program from Martin and Liza. We also saw one quite nice threw jump and quite nice skating. They are skating together very shortly. Without wanting to put optimism into it, I find quite normal that they do mistakes. If they will still do the same mistake in every program, or at least in majority of programs, in a long time, then Yes we can make a conclusion, so far not really.

5. I personaly know very few informations about Martin and Liza and no informations about Nika and her partner. I wasnt with them at practices to judge how far they are, to know how many weeks off advantage one or another pair have. We are speaking speaking about few months, in this every week count, but we also have no idea about their health conditions or type of their preparation. If you spoke with people who really know true informations about them, then please share them.

6. I find quite unlucky to judge which partnership is better from one video, especially that early in partnership.

So conclusion - Yes I see huge potencial in Liza and Martin. No, so far they are not near to perfect. Yes, time will tell.
 

Lachinka

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Let's just put all the negativism aside and enjoy what Martin and Lizok are doing. How about that? Stay positive, peace:luv17:
 

paji15

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Exactly! So far it seems they are still waiting and spending a lot of time in Moscow. :)
 

paji15

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Do any of you have any infos if Liza and Martin can compete in Nats despite they are not allowed to compete at ISU events as Liza was still not released? I mean of course not officially, just be there, skate and get the score but not be part of the official results.

The last info Czech Fed come uo with is that its gonna be difficult for her to be released. Which is not something new :eek:hwell:
 

Jana

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Do any of you have any infos if Liza and Martin can compete in Nats despite they are not allowed to compete at ISU events as Liza was still not released? I mean of course not officially, just be there, skate and get the score but not be part of the official results.

The last info Czech Fed come uo with is that its gonna be difficult for her to be released. Which is not something new :eek:hwell:

They will compete in special category MCR Pairs. As Duskova/Bidar are not competing it is sad. I would like to see both and compare.
 

paji15

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They will compete in special category MCR Pairs. As Duskova/Bidar are not competing it is sad. I would like to see both and compare.

Yep saw them! I'm glad they at least come in this way. It's good for them to gain some experiences. Do anyone know how exactly it is with the rules, they need to skip a year in case she will not be released and then can compete?

About their SP, there are some very good parts, some not so good. It is quite a pity about that throw jump, it was ok in warm up, but it happen. It seems to me like as they cant compete at the moment they are not so focused about their programs, not doing that many runtrus, which is understanable. It must be even incredible hard to go every day to training and just be waiting without any prospect of competition. They are young, they can wait, but I cant even imagine it.

Anyway, it has a potential. I like how they are able to skate quite close together since the begining, their Loops finally work out and I love their death spiral. There is many things to work on, but it has a huge potencial and Im looking forward to see them along the way.

And you are right, it would be nice to see them compete toward each other. Not because they are former partners, they seems to be friendly, but it would motivate them to move forward.
 

Jana

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They are young, they can wait, but I cant even imagine it.


I am not sure if the waiting is good. For all - Martin&Liza and Anna&Radek. Watch where are the Russian they compete against at Junior level.
 

paji15

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I am not sure if the waiting is good. For all - Martin&Liza and Anna&Radek. Watch where are the Russian they compete against at Junior level.

I have no idea what is a deal with Anna & Radek, if it’s constant health issue or something. But Liza and Martin didn’t really have a choice. Fot them is better to work together and wait. Martin tried a lot to find a partner who can compete immediatelly. In this case it’s really better to wait for good partner than settle with worse who don’t share the same goals. In Czech there are no girls and abroad it’s always hard.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6QMmTkp3zv/?igshid=ywu96ga47bq2 This 3F looks gorgeous :love: Hopefully they soon become comfortable in it in program.
 

Jana

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I have no idea what is a deal with Anna & Radek, if it’s constant health issue or something.
Anna had back problems. Radek told that in CZ TV during Nationals.


For Martin, I am a bit afraid if they get permission from Russia and what will be the cost.
 

gordana

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Good news! Rusfed will release Liza.

How do you know that? Any official sourse?
And if it's true I wonder when. Will Martin and Liza have a chance to be listed at the Challenge Cup to try obtaining TES for the Worlds or it is just for the next season?
 

Lalala95

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How do you know that? Any official sourse?
And if it's true I wonder when. Will Martin and Liza have a chance to be listed at the Challenge Cup to try obtaining TES for the Worlds or it is just for the next season?

Official date is April 1, that means no Worlds. Czech fed published it on their website, they had a meeting with Gorshkov in Graz.
 
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