Follow up about Jackson Premieres | Golden Skate

Follow up about Jackson Premieres

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Hello again, I made the post talking about the Jackson Marquis which broke down very quickly.

Since then I have managed to go through all the skate uk star levels so I am now working towards NISA levels with my coach. We have managed to get consistent jumps all the way until flip with all sets of combos so loop, toe loop and half loop combos consistently, Lutz is very close to be landed just need to fully commit to it as I accidentally built muscle memory for half lutz, work on axel is supposed to start relatively soon from what I have gathered from others. Spins we have basic forward upright, backscratch spin, sit spin and very basic change foot uprights, camels I do not have the flexibility or strength for yet despite being able to get a passable spiral. Footwork wise we have all variations of three turns forward and backwards, basic mohawks inside and outside closed and open, twizzles forward brackets and inconsistent forward outside counters.

The jackson Premieres I am in now have began to form a very long crease downwards towards the ankle on my landing side which I can physically feel the deformation happening and there is a visual crease also forming along it very quickly in the last couple of weeks. The tongue of the boot has also began peeling off to the point the padding is folding over itself inside the boot.

I was just wondering how long they will last for in terms of skills and time potentially and if I should be concerned as of now?

Thank you very much for your time however.
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Glad you got appropriately supportive boots.

Are you still skating 8-16 hours a week? And jumping in all that time? Because that's still an incredibly high number of hours at your level. It's led to premature breakdown of your boots. It's time to get new ones.
 

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Glad you got appropriately supportive boots.

Are you still skating 8-16 hours a week? And jumping in all that time? Because that's still an incredibly high number of hours at your level. It's led to premature breakdown of your boots. It's time to get new ones.
Been skating 6-7 hours a week on average as things have increased in intensity it gets tiring a lot quicker. I try and split what I work on with one day on jumps, one on spins and one on footwork/field moves then whatever my coach chooses for me to work on in lessons.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Patineuse élite et professionnelle
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Your overpronation isn't doing you any favors. It's causing your boots to break down faster. You need to see a podiatrist asap and I suspect you need orthotics in your boots.
 

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Your overpronation isn't doing you any favors. It's causing your boots to break down faster. You need to see a podiatrist asap and I suspect you need orthotics in your boots.
Okay, I will have a look into that. How should I approach the podiatrist about the issue?
 

Ic3Rabbit

Patineuse élite et professionnelle
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Okay, I will have a look into that. How should I approach the podiatrist about the issue?
Just tell them what's going on. Mention skating and ask about needing possible orthotics for skate boots.
 

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Just tell them what's going on. Mention skating and ask about needing possible orthotics for skate boots.
Okay I will do, how do orthotics differ from the insoles made in the skate shop out of curiosity as it would make sense they would be. Just curious as to how so.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Patineuse élite et professionnelle
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I'm curious if Ic3Rabbit thinks you should go up to Elites for your next pair.
Elite 5300. Nothing more than that. She may want to consider another brand seriously at this point.
 
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eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
I'm curious if Ic3Rabbit thinks you should go up to Elites for your next pair.
My wallet hopes not but more than willing to trust her judgement, even then I have felt how some people's elites feel and they feel like they are made of rocks in comparison.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Patineuse élite et professionnelle
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
My wallet hopes not but more than willing to trust her judgement, even then I have felt how some people's elites feel and they feel like they are made of rocks in comparison.
Then start hoping you'll never need anything above 75 stiffness LOL!
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Okay I will do, how do orthotics differ from the insoles made in the skate shop out of curiosity as it would make sense they would be. Just curious as to how so.
Prescription orthotics are custom made for your feet. In the traditional method, a podiatrist makes casts of your feet. More recently, 3D imaging produces digital models of your feet. The orthotics are then designed to correct for your specific anatomical defects.

Word of caution: Check for a podiatrist with specific experience in fitting orthotics for figure skates. The type of correction needed, and the design of the orthotics, depends on the activity, and on the shoe or boot. Your typical podiatrist deals with orthotics for walking shoes or running shoes, but not for figure skates. So ask coaches and experienced skaters for referrals.
 
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tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
The jackson Premieres I am in now have began to form a very long crease downwards towards the ankle on my landing side which I can physically feel the deformation happening and there is a visual crease also forming along it very quickly in the last couple of weeks. The tongue of the boot has also began peeling off to the point the padding is folding over itself inside the boot.

I was just wondering how long they will last for in terms of skills and time potentially and if I should be concerned as of now?
I suspect you already know the answer, but are hesitant to accept the ugly truth (I sympathize, this is such an expensive sport): your boots are shot and should be replaced pronto.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
My wallet hopes not but more than willing to trust her judgement, even then I have felt how some people's elites feel and they feel like they are made of rocks in comparison.
I wear a previous model men's Elites rated 80. By "I have felt how some people's Elites feel", I assume you mean you have held them in your hands and tried to flex them (rather than actually skating on them). Is that correct? If so, that's not a good indicator. My Elites are indeed extremely difficult to flex with my hands. But when I lace them up and hit the ice, the experience is entirely different.
 

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Elite 5300. Nothing more than that. She may want to consider another brand seriously at this point.
Oh for reference I am a man, which is why you initially suggested the premieres if I recall correctly.

What other brands would you recommend looking at however?
Prescription orthotics are custom made for your feet. In the traditional method, a podiatrist makes casts of your feet. More recently, 3D imaging produces digital models of your feet. The orthotics are then designed to correct for your specific anatomical defects.

Word of caution: Check for a podiatrist with specific experience in fitting orthotics for figure skates. The type of correction needed, and the design of the orthotics, depends on the activity, and on the shoe or boot. Your typical podiatrist deals with orthotics for walking shoes or running shoes, but not for figure skates. So ask coaches and experienced skaters for referrals.
That would make sense, I will ask around at my rink if there is anywhere in the UK that can do that for me.
I suspect you already know the answer, but are hesitant to accept the ugly truth (I sympathize, this is such an expensive sport): your boots are shot and should be replaced pronto.
It is more so a case of it coming on quickly and not exactly being certain as I have heard conflicting things about it so far.
I wear a previous model men's Elites rated 80. By "I have felt how some people's Elites feel", I assume you mean you have held them in your hands and tried to flex them (rather than actually skating on them). Is that correct? If so, that's not a good indicator. My Elites are indeed extremely difficult to flex with my hands. But when I lace them up and hit the ice, the experience is entirely different.
That makes sense you have your entire weight behind you when you have them on your feet, it was much more just surprise at how strangely jacksons scale seems to work in a very non linear fashion
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
It is more so a case of it coming on quickly and not exactly being certain as I have heard conflicting things about it so far.
That's an issue of the failure characteristics of many (not all) synthetic materials vs many (not all) natural materials used in boot manufacture. Many synthetic materials tend to maintain constant properties for an extended period of time, reach a threshold, then fail abruptly (sometimes catastrophically). Many natural materials tend to degrade more gradually over a period of time. One piece of good news, assuming Jackson Elite is right for you. The current men's model 5362 is back to being manufactured in black traditional suede leather. Offset by a piece of really bad news: Be prepared for sticker shock!

That makes sense you have your entire weight behind you when you have them on your feet, it was much more just surprise at how strangely jacksons scale seems to work in a very non linear fashion
It's not just Jackson. There's no industry standard for measuring boot stiffness. The term isn't even defined. I just looked at the current Jackson line. With one exception, stiffness ratings are rounded to increments of 5 (such as 35, 40, 45, 50 ...). The one exception is the Premiere 2802, rated 69. Seriously? They can distinguish a difference between a 69 and a 70?

At any rate, people have posted sentiments along the lines of, "My current boot is rated 50. My tech says it's a very stiff boot. So if 50 is very stiff, an 80 must be a rock (or concrete)!" But there is no basis for that conclusion: no industry standard for definition, measurement technique, and scale. [Personally, I think many variables would be involved. You can't test the stiffness of a boot in isolation. You would need to insert a simulated foot (along with ankle joint and lower leg) into the boot, and lace it up.]
 
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eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
That's an issue of the failure characteristics of many (not all) synthetic materials vs many (not all) natural materials used in boot manufacture. Many synthetic materials tend to maintain constant properties for an extended period of time, reach a threshold, then fail abruptly (sometimes catastrophically). Many natural materials tend to degrade more gradually over a period of time. One piece of good news, assuming Jackson Elite is right for you. The current men's model 5362 is back to being manufactured in black traditional suede leather. Offset by a piece of really bad news: Be prepared for sticker shock!


It's not just Jackson. There's no industry standard for measuring boot stiffness. The term isn't even defined. I just looked at the current Jackson line. With one exception, stiffness ratings are rounded to increments of 5 (such as 35, 40, 45, 50 ...). The one exception is the Premiere 2802, rated 69. Seriously? They can distinguish a difference between a 69 and a 70?

At any rate, people have posted sentiments along the lines of, "My current boot is rated 50. My tech says it's a very stiff boot. So if 50 is very stiff, an 80 must be a rock (or concrete)!" But there is no basis for that conclusion: no industry standard for definition, measurement technique, and scale. [Personally, I think many variables would be involved. You can't test the stiffness of a boot in isolation. You would need to insert a simulated foot (along with ankle joint and lower leg) into the boot, and lace it up.]
That would make sense to some degree, so very much should expect if there is anymore break down it will be following very soon then, however can also say not particularly able to comfortably say I would be ready for a stiffer boot, then again I have always been cautious in regards to boots.

True it isn't something which can be compared between manufacturers in the slightest and from as it seems within them too.

Ic3rabbit mentioned potentially looking into other brands as well, if that were the case what would the outlook be for them?
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Ic3rabbit mentioned potentially looking into other brands as well, if that were the case what would the outlook be for them?
I'm not qualified to address that (also I'm not sure what you mean by "outlook"). In terms of brands and models that may be appropriate for your feet and provide the appropriate level of support and performance, go with Ic3's recommendations. In terms of longevity, as far as I'm aware, there are no controlled comparison tests or statistically significant surveys (too small a niche for Consumer Reports). Too much variation among skaters (both in terms of how they skate and how they maintain their boots) for scattered anecdotes to be of value. Also, boot makers seem to be making changes a lot more frequently than they used to (so what was true of a model from a year or two ago may no longer be true for the current model).
 

WednesdayMarch

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Country
United-Kingdom
I'd make an appointment with Everglides in Gosport, on the south coast. They are very, very thorough with their skate fitting. A friend recently travelled up from Cornwall and came away - after 2 and a half hours - with her original boots, stretched and moulded, her blades moved to cope with her excessive pronation and completely custom orthotics. She's as happy as a clam now, especially having thought she would end up with completely new boots, blades and orthotics! But the orthotic insole experience was very impressive. All manner of technology is utilised, along with watching her walk barefoot, in shoes and in her skates, to ensure she got what she needed. (And all that came at the bumper price of £72.)

The UK has a dearth of good skate shops and techs. I can only really recommend Everglides in the south and Al's Skate Shop in Blackpool, but I have no experience of Al's skate tech side of things, including insoles and orthotics. I know she stocks a Riedell footbed kit but that's all I know. I've seen Everglides in action and had my own blades sharpened there and have been highly impressed with their knowledge and service.
 

eclipse

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
I'd make an appointment with Everglides in Gosport, on the south coast. They are very, very thorough with their skate fitting. A friend recently travelled up from Cornwall and came away - after 2 and a half hours - with her original boots, stretched and moulded, her blades moved to cope with her excessive pronation and completely custom orthotics. She's as happy as a clam now, especially having thought she would end up with completely new boots, blades and orthotics! But the orthotic insole experience was very impressive. All manner of technology is utilised, along with watching her walk barefoot, in shoes and in her skates, to ensure she got what she needed. (And all that came at the bumper price of £72.)

The UK has a dearth of good skate shops and techs. I can only really recommend Everglides in the south and Al's Skate Shop in Blackpool, but I have no experience of Al's skate tech side of things, including insoles and orthotics. I know she stocks a Riedell footbed kit but that's all I know. I've seen Everglides in action and had my own blades sharpened there and have been highly impressed with their knowledge and service.
I have already gone to them in fact they were the ones who fitted me in premieres matching the recommendations on here, they managed to produce custom insoles and adjust the blade for me (made gliding and edges significantly easier) but they did tell me that due to my pronation and weight the boots would still not last anywhere near as long as it would for other people but even then this I wouldn't have expected.

The only hard thing for me is actually getting a hold of them, I have been contacting them the entire of last week and not a single peep has been heard in response.
 
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